RE: UK apology for India massacre? (Full Version)

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YN -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 8:50:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

no no no, this topic is about the UK being the root of all evil, let them rant....
bless their hearts


No country is without fault but nothing the UK has done compares with Pol Pot, Hitler, or for that matter the horrors of the French revolution.



Even the Spaniards or the Portuguese. easily outdid Pol Pot, The Nazis, and the French, and they were not as accomplished at robbery, rape and murder as the English. More Africans died aboard English slave ships alone then the sum of those you named.




YN -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 8:56:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Screw the platitudes, give back the Koh-i-noor.


That seems to be the token India wants.

What I find curious is how the English wish to be seen as a tourist destination and yet have museums full of things they carted off from around the world displayed as trophies.

"You, from Greece, see the Delphi columns we stole."

"Indians, look at what we stole."

"Chinese, inspect the treasures we carried off after our victorious Opium war."

etc.




Powergamz1 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 8:57:02 AM)

Actually it is about the xenophobes of the UK being all too happy to live on the dole made possible by their history of atrocities, while blaming anyone except themselves through using such condescending and bigoted rhetoric as you just gleefully displayed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

no no no, this topic is about the UK being the root of all evil, let them rant....
bless their hearts






Lucylastic -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:01:46 AM)

LMAO making an awful lot of ASSumptions there...AGAIN with your denial and projection bullshit...try not to be supercilious, its hysterical.

You have gleefully shown yourself to be as condescending and bigoted as anyone else...give yourself a pat on the back.






YN -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:05:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Actually it is about the xenophobes of the UK being all too happy to live on the dole made possible by their history of atrocities, while blaming anyone except themselves through using such condescending and bigoted rhetoric as you just gleefully displayed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

no no no, this topic is about the UK being the root of all evil, let them rant....
bless their hearts






Interesting. It is not considered anti-Semitic to denounce the Isreali government's conduct, but it is considered racist bigotry against the English to discuss the activities of the English Empire.

The Spanish should take this tack, and so should the EU as a whole., that it is bigotry against Europeans to discuss their various crimes over the last centuries.





tj444 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:11:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
It rates right up there with people demanding the US to apologize for the slaves brought to the states,

You make it sound like there is no slavery in the US & the US is now pure & good.. yet there most definately still is slavery (its got a different name now tho), people in jail are forced to work for slave wages so slimey US corps with the right connections can make mega-profits..
http://www.jdjournal.com/2012/03/16/prison-labor-in-us-unicor-the-hidden-face-of-federal-commerce/

http://kiilunyasha.blogspot.com/2012/03/slave-farms-in-21st-century-reflections.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/14/928611/-INSOURCING-Identifying-businesses-involved-in-prison-labor-or-supporting-those-who-are




jlf1961 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:15:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

no no no, this topic is about the UK being the root of all evil, let them rant....
bless their hearts




The UK is not the root of all evil.

I just think that making a country apologize for past wrong doings is a bit unrealistic.

I mean any country that gave us Alice Eve, Elizabeth Hurley, Emily Blunt, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and all the other hot British actresses over the years can not be the root of all evil... lust maybe but not evil.




tj444 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:19:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I just think that making a country apologize for past wrong doings is a bit unrealistic.


You mean like the US govt lying to the world and invading Iraq?




YN -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:26:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
It rates right up there with people demanding the US to apologize for the slaves brought to the states,

You make it sound like there is no slavery in the US & the US is now pure & good.. yet there most definately still is slavery (its got a different name now tho), people in jail are forced to work for slave wages so slimey US corps with the right connections can make mega-profits..
http://www.jdjournal.com/2012/03/16/prison-labor-in-us-unicor-the-hidden-face-of-federal-commerce/

http://kiilunyasha.blogspot.com/2012/03/slave-farms-in-21st-century-reflections.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/14/928611/-INSOURCING-Identifying-businesses-involved-in-prison-labor-or-supporting-those-who-are


CORCAN

Interesting that you complain about foreign conduct that Canada itself engages in on a national level.

Perhaps you should discuss how the United States and the Lain Americas all exist on land stolen from Indians and how all the European invaders must be shipped back to the EU, that is also a popular Canadian and English complaint I see regularly posted online.




jlf1961 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:32:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
It rates right up there with people demanding the US to apologize for the slaves brought to the states,

You make it sound like there is no slavery in the US & the US is now pure & good.. yet there most definately still is slavery (its got a different name now tho), people in jail are forced to work for slave wages so slimey US corps with the right connections can make mega-profits..
http://www.jdjournal.com/2012/03/16/prison-labor-in-us-unicor-the-hidden-face-of-federal-commerce/

http://kiilunyasha.blogspot.com/2012/03/slave-farms-in-21st-century-reflections.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/14/928611/-INSOURCING-Identifying-businesses-involved-in-prison-labor-or-supporting-those-who-are



First I never said that.

I happen to be part Native American, and have a problem with the way that the US government still treats Native Americans on the reservations, and personally think that those reservations should have direct say in the US Senate and House of Representatives independent of the states they are located in.

As for slave farms, since most farm labor is done by migrant farm workers who for the most part are illegals, and thus will work for slave wages, yes there is a problem.

Now on the point of inmate labor. What the hell is the problem? There have been work gangs in the prison system for years. There have been prison industries for years. Granted they are not paid the same wage as the rest of the country but so what?

What would you prefer, a prison inmate sitting in his cell doing nothing? They have no expenses except for commissary privileges that they have to pay for. Prison is for punishment after all.




tj444 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:44:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
It rates right up there with people demanding the US to apologize for the slaves brought to the states,

You make it sound like there is no slavery in the US & the US is now pure & good.. yet there most definately still is slavery (its got a different name now tho), people in jail are forced to work for slave wages so slimey US corps with the right connections can make mega-profits..
http://www.jdjournal.com/2012/03/16/prison-labor-in-us-unicor-the-hidden-face-of-federal-commerce/

http://kiilunyasha.blogspot.com/2012/03/slave-farms-in-21st-century-reflections.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/14/928611/-INSOURCING-Identifying-businesses-involved-in-prison-labor-or-supporting-those-who-are


CORCAN

Interesting that you complain about foreign conduct that Canada itself engages in on a national level.

Perhaps you should discuss how the United States and the Lain Americas all exist on land stolen from Indians and how all the European invaders must be shipped back to the EU, that is also a popular Canadian and English complaint I see regularly posted online.

Is that forced slave labor for nearly no money? As far as I am aware no inmates are forced to work in Canada, as they are in the US.. and as far as I know they are paid real wages, not the China-like wages the US pays their forced labor inmates.. Slave prison labor is allowed in the US under your Constitution. In Canada it would be against the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms & minimum wage laws. Totally different situations.. nice try tho..




YN -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:50:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

Is that forced slave labor for nearly no money? As far as I am aware no inmates are forced to work in Canada, as they are in the US.. and as far as I know they are paid real wages, not the China-like wages the US pays their forced labor inmates.. Slave prison labor is allowed in the US under your Constitution. In Canada it would be against the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms & minimum wage laws. Totally different situations.. nice try tho..


Please - Plan to cut inmates’ pay will accomplish nothing The current state of inmate pay already violates the Canadian Labour Code and prisoners’ rights to fair and equitable wages.

English isn't my primary language, and I can find half a million examples.




tj444 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:52:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
As for slave farms, since most farm labor is done by migrant farm workers who for the most part are illegals, and thus will work for slave wages, yes there is a problem.

Now on the point of inmate labor. What the hell is the problem? There have been work gangs in the prison system for years. There have been prison industries for years. Granted they are not paid the same wage as the rest of the country but so what?

What would you prefer, a prison inmate sitting in his cell doing nothing? They have no expenses except for commissary privileges that they have to pay for. Prison is for punishment after all.

Illegals have the choice to work for whoever they want to and negotiate the best rate they can, they can also leave and go back to their home country.. so no, i dont see them as working for slave wages cuz they have choices that inmates simply dont have.. I will say I am not talking about those trapped in human trafficking who are also slaves, but forced into that illegally, unlike inmates which are legal slaves..

Inmates should have a choice to work or not and they should be paid minimum wages, just as anyone else is entitled to legally.. its not the 1800's anymore after all..

And if they arent working for China-like "wages" then those same corps would be forced to give non-incarcerated Americans (like you) that work at decent wages instead..




jlf1961 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 9:56:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
As for slave farms, since most farm labor is done by migrant farm workers who for the most part are illegals, and thus will work for slave wages, yes there is a problem.

Now on the point of inmate labor. What the hell is the problem? There have been work gangs in the prison system for years. There have been prison industries for years. Granted they are not paid the same wage as the rest of the country but so what?

What would you prefer, a prison inmate sitting in his cell doing nothing? They have no expenses except for commissary privileges that they have to pay for. Prison is for punishment after all.

Illegals have the choice to work for whoever they want to and negotiate the best rate they can, they can also leave and go back to their home country.. so no, i dont see them as working for slave wages cuz they have choices that inmates simply dont have.. I will say I am not talking about those trapped in human trafficking who are also slaves, but forced into that illegally, unlike inmates which are legal slaves..

Inmates should have a choice to work or not and they should be paid minimum wages, just as anyone else is entitled to legally.. its not the 1800's anymore after all..

And if they arent working for China-like "wages" then those same corps would be forced to give non-incarcerated Americans (like you) that work at decent wages instead..


It is not mandatory to work in prison, it is a privilege to be earned, unlike some countries.




tj444 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 10:02:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
Is that forced slave labor for nearly no money? As far as I am aware no inmates are forced to work in Canada, as they are in the US.. and as far as I know they are paid real wages, not the China-like wages the US pays their forced labor inmates.. Slave prison labor is allowed in the US under your Constitution. In Canada it would be against the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms & minimum wage laws. Totally different situations.. nice try tho..


Please - Plan to cut inmates’ pay will accomplish nothing The current state of inmate pay already violates the Canadian Labour Code and prisoners’ rights to fair and equitable wages.

English isn't my primary language, and I can find half a million examples.

It is not forced labor in Canada, it is their choice to work or not to work, unlike in the US.. I expect if they have not been paid in accordance with the minimum wage laws that it will go to court and the prisoners will win and those that do decide to work will get paid the same as anyone else... that is not something any US prisoners have a hope in hell of getting cuz the US Constitution allows slave prison labor.. slave prison labor is something I am entirely against..




jlf1961 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 10:14:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
Is that forced slave labor for nearly no money? As far as I am aware no inmates are forced to work in Canada, as they are in the US.. and as far as I know they are paid real wages, not the China-like wages the US pays their forced labor inmates.. Slave prison labor is allowed in the US under your Constitution. In Canada it would be against the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms & minimum wage laws. Totally different situations.. nice try tho..


Please - Plan to cut inmates’ pay will accomplish nothing The current state of inmate pay already violates the Canadian Labour Code and prisoners’ rights to fair and equitable wages.

English isn't my primary language, and I can find half a million examples.

It is not forced labor in Canada, it is their choice to work or not to work, unlike in the US.. I expect if they have not been paid in accordance with the minimum wage laws that it will go to court and the prisoners will win and those that do decide to work will get paid the same as anyone else... that is not something any US prisoners have a hope in hell of getting cuz the US Constitution allows slave prison labor.. slave prison labor is something I am entirely against..



In American prisons, it is not forced labor, it is a choice by the inmate if he earns that privilege.

Before making stupid statements about something you have no knowledge of, do some research.




tj444 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 10:15:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

It is not mandatory to work in prison, it is a privilege to be earned, unlike some countries.

not mandatory? a privilege? really? working for 23 cents/hr? That's how you justify it???

"According to CNN Money, the U.S. highly skilled and well-paid “aerospace workforce has shrunk by 40 percent in the past 20 years."
"In 1980, when Ronald Reagan became president, there were 400,000 prisoners in the U.S. Today the number exceeds 2.3 million.
The U.S. imprisons more people per capita than any country in the world. With less than 5 percent of the world population, the U.S. imprisons more than 25 percent of all people imprisoned in the world."

"State prisons that used forced prison labor in plantations, laundries and highway chain gangs increasingly seek to sell prison labor to corporations trolling the globe in search of the cheapest possible labor.
In California, as in many states, prisoners who refuse to work are moved to disciplinary housing and lose canteen privileges as well as “good time” credit, which slices hard time off their sentences.
Systematic abuse, beatings, prolonged isolation and sensory deprivation, and lack of medical care make U.S. prison conditions among the worst in the world. Ironically, working under grueling conditions for pennies an hour is treated as a “perk” for good behavior.
In December, Georgia inmates went on strike and refused to leave their cells at six prisons for more than a week. In one of the largest prison protests in U.S. history, prisoners spoke of being forced to work seven days a week for no pay. Prisoners were beaten if they refused to work."

"Prison labor — with no union protection, overtime pay, vacation days, pensions, benefits, health and safety protection, or Social Security withholding
The prison work is often dangerous, toxic and unprotected. At FCC Victorville, a federal prison located at an old U.S. airbase, prisoners clean, overhaul and reassemble tanks and military vehicles returned from combat and coated in toxic spent ammunition, depleted uranium dust and chemicals."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagon-and-slave-labor-in-u-s-prisons/25376




Politesub53 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 10:33:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

Even the Spaniards or the Portuguese. easily outdid Pol Pot, The Nazis, and the French, and they were not as accomplished at robbery, rape and murder as the English. More Africans died aboard English slave ships alone then the sum of those you named.


More bullshit not subtantiated by facts.




Politesub53 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 10:38:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Do the math... you can't go back far enough with the US, because we don't have the centuries behind us that the Brits do. All of the American atrocities since 1776 combined don't come anywhere close to that.

Do the math, look at the millions of deaths from Bengal alone, and add in the slave trade, WWII, the famines in China after the Opium Wars, Africa, Asia, terra nullius, the Middle East et al...

Not just vaguely connected to, but directly conducted or manipulated by those 'whose mail'd hand keeps the keys of such teeming destinies'

Basically the rape of the whole planet for a thousand years.

And like many rapists, still in denial, and still blaming it all on the ungrateful victims.


Another baseless rant based in ignorance and short on facts. Dont you even know how to Google ?




jlf1961 -> RE: UK apology for India massacre? (2/21/2013 11:18:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

It is not mandatory to work in prison, it is a privilege to be earned, unlike some countries.

not mandatory? a privilege? really? working for 23 cents/hr? That's how you justify it???

"According to CNN Money, the U.S. highly skilled and well-paid “aerospace workforce has shrunk by 40 percent in the past 20 years."
"In 1980, when Ronald Reagan became president, there were 400,000 prisoners in the U.S. Today the number exceeds 2.3 million.
The U.S. imprisons more people per capita than any country in the world. With less than 5 percent of the world population, the U.S. imprisons more than 25 percent of all people imprisoned in the world."

"State prisons that used forced prison labor in plantations, laundries and highway chain gangs increasingly seek to sell prison labor to corporations trolling the globe in search of the cheapest possible labor.
In California, as in many states, prisoners who refuse to work are moved to disciplinary housing and lose canteen privileges as well as “good time” credit, which slices hard time off their sentences.
Systematic abuse, beatings, prolonged isolation and sensory deprivation, and lack of medical care make U.S. prison conditions among the worst in the world. Ironically, working under grueling conditions for pennies an hour is treated as a “perk” for good behavior.
In December, Georgia inmates went on strike and refused to leave their cells at six prisons for more than a week. In one of the largest prison protests in U.S. history, prisoners spoke of being forced to work seven days a week for no pay. Prisoners were beaten if they refused to work."

"Prison labor — with no union protection, overtime pay, vacation days, pensions, benefits, health and safety protection, or Social Security withholding
The prison work is often dangerous, toxic and unprotected. At FCC Victorville, a federal prison located at an old U.S. airbase, prisoners clean, overhaul and reassemble tanks and military vehicles returned from combat and coated in toxic spent ammunition, depleted uranium dust and chemicals."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagon-and-slave-labor-in-u-s-prisons/25376



Actually, the report you quoted is not exactly true. Victorville does not service tanks or armored vehicles, those are dealt with at either private contractors or DOD facilities in Alabama.

quote:

Rebuild a Few Components or the Entire Vehicle

FCC Victorville specializes in the repair and rebuild of vehicles and vehicle components for fork lifts, HMMWVs, semi-trailer and air conditioning skids.

Fork Lifts: complete rebuild under SLEP Service Life Extension Program. Fork Lifts rebuilt include Yale, Hyster, Case, Drexel,Wiggins, Liftking, Caterpillar, Int. Harvester covering:

diesel, gasoline, propane and electric
booms, tool carriers and cargo container handlers
2WD, 4WD and shipboard; lift capacities from 1,500 to 20,000 pounds

HMMWV: complete tear down and rebuild of all models, including:

Shelter Carrier,Ambulance,Troop Carrier and Truck

Rebuilt Vehicle Components, including:

differentials, brakes, radiators, automatic transmissions, transfer cases, power steering pumps, steering gearboxes

Semi-trailer rebuilding, including: replacement of deck, frame repair, rewiring, and repainting
Air conditioning skids: strip, repair, and repaint

source


Now, under DoD regulations, all military vehicles are decontaminated prior to shipment back to the US. Has something to do with those pesky Hazardous Materials handling regulations.

As for the pay, as I stated, prisons are established for the purpose of punishment. The prisoners do not have to pay for room, food, health care, or anything else that is necessary for reasonable living.

There are some countries that do not pay prisoners to work.

Of course, once more the US is the evil country.

My personal opinion, is that prisoners committed a crime that sent them to prison, and since the discontinuation of the "hard Labor" sentence, this is the next best thing. Many of those "mistreated and exploited" prisoners are rapists, child abusers, child molesters, and violent criminals. Some of those individuals, in my opinion, should be sent to a facility where there are no comforts, sorta like Devil's Island, or executed the day they arrive at the prison.

As for those "white collar" criminals that are sentenced to federal or state prisons, they screwed people over to make money, why should they make money in prison?




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