quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I have been well aware of what goes on with human trafficking for at least 10 years, I dont need the likes of you to point out to me what I already know..

Just cuz there are countries worse than the US doesnt mean the US is doing good.. If there are countries that pollute more than the US does that mean the US shouldnt bother trying to reduce the amount it pollutes???

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I have been well aware of what goes on with human trafficking for at least 10 years, I dont need the likes of you to point out to me what I already know..

Just cuz there are countries worse than the US doesnt mean the US is doing good.. If there are countries that pollute more than the US does that mean the US shouldnt bother trying to reduce the amount it pollutes???

10 years would be incredibly late to become aware, even if it were true.

Those who give a crap about the international forced slavery that really goes on, don't cover up and trivialize it by pretending that American prison inmates putting dividends in the pockets of multi-national investors is the epitome of slavery.

And they don't keep trying to derail threads discussing the worst atrocities with disingenuous debate tactics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagon-and-slave-labor-in-u-s-prisons/25376

aint global research tha tin foil site lefties love? http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

quote:

Despite presenting itself as a source of scholarly analysis, globalresearch.ca mostly consists of polemics many of which accept (and use) conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and propaganda.

The prevalent conspiracist strand relates to global power-elites (primarily governments and corporations) and their New World Order. Specific featured conspiracy theories include those addressing 9/11, vaccines, genetic modification, Zionism, HAARP, global warming, and David Kelly. Analyses of these issues tend follow the lines of the site's political biases.

Apparently, contributors to globalresearch.ca consider information sourced from anyone who seems aligned to their ideology as reliable; during the 2011 Libyan civil war the site was an apologist for Muammar al-Gaddafi, reproducing his propaganda and painting him as a paragon of a modern leader.

I was not going to go there yet. I like to let people hang themselves.

Is this one more acceptable for ya? google for profit prison slavery gets 3,440,00 results.. are you saying they are all wrong? You dont get it, you are paying thru your taxes to house prisoners, many that shouldnt even be in jail and turning a blind eye to prisoners forced into slavery, giving these upstanding US corps huge profits, they are the only winners here..

"This routine traffic stop represents the front end of an increasingly lucrative commercial enterprise: the business of incarcerating immigrant detainees, the fastest-growing segment of the American prison population. The three men loaded into the van offer fresh profit opportunities for the nation's swiftly expanding private prison industry, which has in recent years captured the bulk of this commerce through federal contracts. By filling its cells with undocumented immigrants caught in the web of increased border security, the industry has seen its revenues swell at taxpayer expense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

there are various other sources of the same info and criticisms (by your fellow Americans) of the prison system in the US.. and as well as the criminalization of pot, the forfiture laws, etc.. and its not unheard of cops breaking the law themselves, all the way up to murder..

FYI, I have been a victim of crime, I just refuse to play the victim or let it turn me into a nutbar vigilante.. I also dont believe in punishing beyond the level of the crime.. Probably some big reasons why I would not make a good American.. [:D]

Look, I know there are people in the US that are critical of the prison system. Most of them would prefer that prisoners are treated like kings or something. I dont agree with them.

Like I said, prisoners have more rights than the victims. The so-called reformers seem to think that a criminal had a "hard" life, never had a chance other than crime, was abused, or whatever. Personally, I think they are either too stupid to realize that criminals went into crime for the fast buck, or they thought the world owed them something.

Criminals had the same chances as anyone else to achieve something better than they had. They choose to turn to crime, no one forced them to.

As for the criminalization of marijuana, I suggest you google what countries have it legal... Got news for you, there isnt one. There are countries that tolerate it better.

When the Federal government legalizes it fine, but until then, it remains illegal. And no matter what states choose to ignore the Federal law, the DEA is going to enforce the drug laws. State Law cannot supersede Federal law.

As for prison reform, if they are going to make it tougher, great. If they want to treat prisoners like spoiled kids, then they need to get real.

Oh, to really piss in your wheaties, I support capital punishment for rapists, child molesters, pedophiles, and murderers. Forget the life in prison bullshit, or 25 to life or any other bullshit. If the dna evidence or video or something ironclad proving they committed the crime, then put them out of the rest of our misery.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I have been well aware of what goes on with human trafficking for at least 10 years, I dont need the likes of you to point out to me what I already know..

Just cuz there are countries worse than the US doesnt mean the US is doing good.. If there are countries that pollute more than the US does that mean the US shouldnt bother trying to reduce the amount it pollutes???

10 years would be incredibly late to become aware, even if it were true.

Those who give a crap about the international forced slavery that really goes on, don't cover up and trivialize it by pretending that American prison inmates putting dividends in the pockets of multi-national investors is the epitome of slavery.

And they don't keep trying to derail threads discussing the worst atrocities with disingenuous debate tactics.

You obviously have either not read my previous posts or not understood them.. stop trying to put words in my mouth..

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Should David Cameron apologise for Britain's colonial past in India, particularly the bloodiest moments like the Amritsar massacre?

His chief diplomat here was confronted with the issue after giving a speech in Delhi a couple of months ago, when an elderly man jailed by the British demanded to know when the UK was going to say sorry.
UK apology for India massacre?

Well, the event happened a hundred years ago, what good would an apology do now?

I mean seriously, what good would an apology do for anyone? It rates right up there with people demanding the US to apologize for the slaves brought to the states, the war with Native Americans, or someone demanding that some country apologize for the behavior of Attila the Hun.

Or the British demanding an apology from France for the hundred years war.

The past cannot be changed, what can be determined is the future by the decisions made by the countries today.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

It was roundly condemned at the time by Churchill and Asquith, the later rightly stated it was one of the worst episodes of our history.

My problem with an apoplogy for times gone by is where do you stop ?

We shall see.


There`s a long history there.


The level of contrition to me shows the level of honesty and backbone of the nations responsible.


For example,it`s near impossible to get the Japanese to admit or acknowledge their atrocities against 1st the Chinese(and other southeast Asian countries they violated),and against the British,Australians and Americans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: egern

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Should David Cameron apologise for Britain's colonial past in India, particularly the bloodiest moments like the Amritsar massacre?

His chief diplomat here was confronted with the issue after giving a speech in Delhi a couple of months ago, when an elderly man jailed by the British demanded to know when the UK was going to say sorry.
UK apology for India massacre?

Well, the event happened a hundred years ago, what good would an apology do now?

I mean seriously, what good would an apology do for anyone? It rates right up there with people demanding the US to apologize for the slaves brought to the states, the war with Native Americans, or someone demanding that some country apologize for the behavior of Attila the Hun.

Or the British demanding an apology from France for the hundred years war.

The past cannot be changed, what can be determined is the future by the decisions made by the countries today.

The future decisions is determined by the morals as seen by history.

Maybe an apology for Native Indians might be followed up by better circumstances for same?
Maybe an apology for Amritzar will be a closure for many Indians there, and help prevent further colonialism?

Apologizing to people who are still alive or who are near descendants of the people under oppression at the time is useful both for the present and the future.

But then, bullies just shrug it off..

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

A diplomatic apology is the same as telling a one night stand you will call her the next day, or answering in the negative when a woman asks if an outfit makes her look fat when it does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Modern British politics isnt the same than that of a centuary ago. Britain and India have had close ties since Indias independance. I seem to recall the Queen gave an oplogy of sorts on a State visit back in the 90s.

What sticks in my throat more than anything is Camerons cynicism, in talking of an apology while on a trade visit. The prick would be better served to have done it just on a general trip to India........

And yes, I did vote for him, I wont make that mistake again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Actually it is about the xenophobes of the UK being all too happy to live on the dole made possible by their history of atrocities, while blaming anyone except themselves through using such condescending and bigoted rhetoric as you just gleefully displayed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

no no no, this topic is about the UK being the root of all evil, let them rant....
bless their hearts

Interesting. It is not considered anti-Semitic to denounce the Isreali government's conduct, but it is considered racist bigotry against the English to discuss the activities of the English Empire.

The Spanish should take this tack, and so should the EU as a whole., that it is bigotry against Europeans to discuss their various crimes over the last centuries.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

no no no, this topic is about the UK being the root of all evil, let them rant....
bless their hearts

No country is without fault but nothing the UK has done compares with Pol Pot, Hitler, or for that matter the horrors of the French revolution.

Even the Spaniards or the Portuguese. easily outdid Pol Pot, The Nazis, and the French, and they were not as accomplished at robbery, rape and murder as the English. More Africans died aboard English slave ships alone then the sum of those you named.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I just think that making a country apologize for past wrong doings is a bit unrealistic.

You mean like the US govt lying to the world and invading Iraq?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I happen to be part Native American, and have a problem with the way that the US government still treats Native Americans on the reservations, and personally think that those reservations should have direct say in the US Senate and House of Representatives independent of the states they are located in.

quote:


Now on the point of inmate labor. What the hell is the problem? There have been work gangs in the prison system for years. There have been prison industries for years. Granted they are not paid the same wage as the rest of the country but so what?

quote:


What would you prefer, a prison inmate sitting in his cell doing nothing? They have no expenses except for commissary privileges that they have to pay for. Prison is for punishment after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: egern

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

no no no, this topic is about the UK being the root of all evil, let them rant....
bless their hearts

No country is without fault but nothing the UK has done compares with Pol Pot, Hitler, or for that matter the horrors of the French revolution.

Even the Spaniards or the Portuguese. easily outdid Pol Pot, The Nazis, and the French, and they were not as accomplished at robbery, rape and murder as the English. More Africans died aboard English slave ships alone then the sum of those you named.

About 10 million, apparently, many of whom were sold in Amerika. No use pointing fingers at each other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: egern

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Should David Cameron apologise for Britain's colonial past in India, particularly the bloodiest moments like the Amritsar massacre?

His chief diplomat here was confronted with the issue after giving a speech in Delhi a couple of months ago, when an elderly man jailed by the British demanded to know when the UK was going to say sorry.
UK apology for India massacre?

Well, the event happened a hundred years ago, what good would an apology do now?

I mean seriously, what good would an apology do for anyone? It rates right up there with people demanding the US to apologize for the slaves brought to the states, the war with Native Americans, or someone demanding that some country apologize for the behavior of Attila the Hun.

Or the British demanding an apology from France for the hundred years war.

The past cannot be changed, what can be determined is the future by the decisions made by the countries today.

The future decisions is determined by the morals as seen by history.

Maybe an apology for Native Indians might be followed up by better circumstances for same?
Maybe an apology for Amritzar will be a closure for many Indians there, and help prevent further colonialism?

Apologizing to people who are still alive or who are near descendants of the people under oppression at the time is useful both for the present and the future.

But then, bullies just shrug it off..

Forget the apology train native Americans for real jobs and get them out of those cesspools of failure called reservations. Treat them like real people rather than perpetual wards of the state.

quote:

ORIGINAL: egern

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

A diplomatic apology is the same as telling a one night stand you will call her the next day, or answering in the negative when a woman asks if an outfit makes her look fat when it does.

A lie, in other words? No one cares? I don't think any of the politicians do, but a lot of real people might. No Brit I have talked to is very proud of their colonial past.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

So, back on topic...


The Indian Famine of 1943-44 was one of the greatest crimes of British imperialism. The famine was entirely man made. About 3.5 million people died as a result of the famine. There was no overall grain shortage. Wheat was still being exported from India and if rice had been rationed there would have been no shortage of that. http://www.gbpeopleslibrary.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14&Itemid=17

On hearing that a meeting of 15,000 to 20,000 people including women, children and the elderly had assembled at Jallianwala Bagh, Dyer went with fifty riflemen to a raised bank and ordered them to shoot at the crowd. Dyer continued the firing for about ten minutes, till the ammunition supply was almost exhausted; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre


An overview: More prescient was the defence of the British Empire in India, which required a military commitment on the North West Frontier with Afghanistan from 1849, a period of nearly one hundred years, until Pakistan took over the same task in 1947 9 (this and other references are merely suggested reading for those who would like to know more). This was but one commitment, others including: the repelling of the Fenian invasion of Canada 10 in 1868; countering the Boer guerrillas in South Africa 11 from 1900 to 1902; containing the Easter Rising in Dublin 12 in 1916; countering the Irish Republican Army in Ireland 13 from 1919 – 1921; the Somaliland insurgency of 1919; Amritsar 14 in 1919; the Mesopotamian insurgency of 1920 15 ; disorder in Palestine in 1920- 21; the ‘first Intifada’ in Palestine from 1936 – 9 16 ; countering the Fakir of Ipi from 1936 – 1937; the Jewish insurgency in Palestine from 1943 - 1948; the Malayan Emergency from 1948 – 1960 17 ; the Mau Mau revolt in Kenya 18 from 1952 – 1956; the EOKA campaign in Cyprus 19 from 1955 – 1959; the Egyptian Canal Zone emergency from 1951 – 1954; the aftermath of the Suez operation in November – December 1956; operations in the Arabian Peninsula from 1957 – 1960; the Radfan campaign of 1964; South Arabia from 1964 – 1967; the war for Dhofar in Oman from 1965 – 1980; Northern Ireland from 1969 - 2007; Iraq from 2003 – 2009; and now, Afghanistan since 2006, where at the time of writing, over 350 British troops have so far been killed. There is no comparable history of counterinsurgency anywhere in the world to match that of the British record....
...The truly disturbing aspect of this study is the manner in which senior officials of both the military, civil service and government, thought it expedient to steadfastly refuse to face the facts when atrocities took place. The ‘system’ has long taken the view that while it knows these crimes have been (and are) committed, to admit to them - until forced by sheer weight of incontestable evidence – is that admission would ‘give aid and comfort’ to the enemy. It is furthermore of great concern that official papers on such matters were/are withheld from the National Archive on grounds of political sensitivity.
http://www.militaryethics.org/British-Atrocities-in-Counter-Insurgency/10/

Now one of the resident deniers here has offered to 'debate' the existence of this record... debate as in spin, deny, strawman, move goalposts, point fingers, blame the victim, red herring and so forth.

Nothing about offering to *discuss* the reality of course... that simply isn't done, don't you know?



Tha