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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 9:09:59 AM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
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I find it more disturbing that male submissives have a hard time finding acceptance within the BDSM Community,than male submissives finding acceptance in the "vanilla community".

I have been an open male submissive for a few years now.I must say,I've never really had too much of a problem being open out in society.The people who do know are surprised at first,but then move on.Some people find it very interesting.I've had emails from people all over the world saying how lucky I am.I have over 2500 "likes" on my facebook page.So overall in general society,I really haven't had too much of a problem.What I finding most disturbing is the lack of acceptance in the BDSM community that male subs gets.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 3/8/2013 9:11:08 AM >

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Post #: 21

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 9:23:21 AM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

I have also been a fan of history.BDSM history in particular,I find it to be very interesting.History has alot to do with who we are and where we are today as people.I think of people like Betty Page(I saw her HBO movie) as icons who were before their time.These people help set the stage to where we are at today,where BDSM has gained some acceptance.

They are movies,books,songs,videos,etc,where the BDMS culture has slowly started to gain popularity.I do think more educational outreach programs are important,so people can learn the clear difference bewteen fantasy and what is reality.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 3/8/2013 9:24:25 AM >

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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 11:50:01 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I find it more disturbing that male submissives have a hard time finding acceptance within the BDSM Community,than male submissives finding acceptance in the "vanilla community".

I have been an open male submissive for a few years now.I must say,I've never really had too much of a problem being open out in society.The people who do know are surprised at first,but then move on.Some people find it very interesting.I've had emails from people all over the world saying how lucky I am.I have over 2500 "likes" on my facebook page.So overall in general society,I really haven't had too much of a problem.What I finding most disturbing is the lack of acceptance in the BDSM community that male subs gets.

Where exactly are you seeing this?

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Post #: 23

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 11:59:16 AM

TheLilSquaw

Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I find it more disturbing that male submissives have a hard time finding acceptance within the BDSM Community,than male submissives finding acceptance in the "vanilla community".

I have been an open male submissive for a few years now.I must say,I've never really had too much of a problem being open out in society.The people who do know are surprised at first,but then move on.Some people find it very interesting.I've had emails from people all over the world saying how lucky I am.I have over 2500 "likes" on my facebook page.So overall in general society,I really haven't had too much of a problem.What I finding most disturbing is the lack of acceptance in the BDSM community that male subs gets.

I have been active in the BDSM community since '94 and I can tell you this is not my experience at all. In-fact that is the total opposite of my experience. Where are YOU seeing this within the BDSM community?

I do think there is a difference between being accepted for being a submissive male and being a match for someone.

I don't mean to sound harsh but perhaps saying you aren't being accepted because you are a submissive male is your cope out instead of looking within yourself and finding and addressing the real problem of why you haven't found a personal match.

< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 3/8/2013 12:00:26 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 2:20:03 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
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So you can honestly sit there and say there is no discrimination towards male submissives in this "community"?Just some of the comments I have read from some of the "pros" here on Collarchat can be disturbing at times.I'm not looking to cause any aurgument,I'm just calling a I see it.I know there are good people in this community too.Thats why I stay here on Collarchat.For every bit of the "know it alls" on here,there are also descent people on here that I could get alot out of listening to.

Just for the record,I've been in contact with people in my local community and I will be getting involved here real soon.I have alway recieved messages from Dommes lately as well.Anyways,theres the local community and then theres the "International BDSM Community",which I would consider Collarme/Collarchat to be a big player in that.It is nice when I can talk to like minded people from around the world.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 3/8/2013 2:30:56 PM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 2:30:30 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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Can you define the "discrimination"? Are you seeing community events where male subs are not permitted entry? (With the exception of sigs, of course, that are orientation and/or role specific.) Have you specifically been barred from events that are open to everyone that has good standing with the group or club? Have you been vetted with any group that has excluded you from their activities?

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Post #: 26

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 2:33:52 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
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I am not talking about not being allowed in events.I am just talking about the overall impression in general towards male subs.No,I can't ever think of any situation where male subs were denied access to a event,unless it was stated before hand that single male subs may not enter due to other reasons.Usually a swingers party,which I clearly understand that.

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Post #: 27

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 3:02:10 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

I did just find out that there is actually a 'Fem-Domme" night at the Fetish club nearby.Clearly,that group is open to Femme-Dommes and Male Submissives.That would be something that would clearly be more up my alley.I guess I just need to go where the Femme Dommes go.

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Post #: 28

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 3:24:49 PM

LPslittleclip

Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
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yes times have changed for the bdsm world, some good some bad. true that the internet is a great way to communicate with folks around the world, but it makes it so anyone can say they are a Master,Dominate or pro and start beating others without knowing what they are doing. before there was internet you had to go out and seek the lifestyle out it was much more restrictive for outsiders to enter.
as far as being discriminated at events even at my first public dungon i was made to feel welcome i did not get to play that time but i did meet and interact with others in the lifestyle discussing kinds of play and what i was intrested in. i have been to munches and play parties in many states and have always felt welcomed i may not have gotten to play each and every time but i met others and learned more at each event, like styles and diffrent ways of doing things to combinations of things.

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Post #: 29

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 4:16:03 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

I do need to start choosing my words alittle more careful.I don't mean to say anything to offend anyone.I'm not afraid to speak my mind,I just need to learn better ways of saying whats on my mind without stepping on anyone's toes in here.

I do credit the advice I have recieved here on Collarchat over the past few weeks,as there have been some improvements.People here in my local community have been sending me messages telling me about different events in the area.

Sometimes I'll read someones post or reply to one of my post and give me what I call "constructive criticism".If I seem frustrated at times because of that,it is because someone said something that is truth.That means I have to look at myself!!The horror!!Thats sometimes the best way to learn.As long as its actual "constructive criticism" and not just criticism.

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Post #: 30

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 9:58:56 PM

LillyBoPeep

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Joined: 12/29/2010
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here in my community, acceptance can be difficult for male subs. for some of them, it really is them and their wacky behavior, but for others, it's this bizarre gauntlet that they must either put up with, or be blacklisted. and so a lot of them choose to opt out, and they're labeled as "do me subs" because they won't just bend over for whatever bizarre request some unknown female capital letter might give them. =p
it does happen in different communities; some situations that would be red flag festivals are ignored because it's F/m, rather than M/f.

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Post #: 31

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/8/2013 10:00:31 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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Those 2500 likes on FB really mean nothing. My daughter has close to that because she accepts every single person who asks her to friend her. Total strangers. She just likes to collect them all like she collected Pokemon cards as a kid....."gotta get em all!"

So if you're like her....yeah, means nothing. It's just a collecting thing among teens especially. I'm betting a lot of them come across your porn or are like most....they ask to be friends with absolutely anyone and everyone. The porn stuff doesn't make you something special or means you are submissive or means you even know anything at all about bdsm or d/s or M/s or S/m or anything else really except how to play a role in a movie.

Have I ever seen discrimination in bdsm of male subs??? Actually, just the opposite. Most events I go to are mainly male subs and femdommes. There are extremely few femsubs and male Doms from my own experience and that's been in at least 4 states that I've attended bdsm events.

If you feel that way, it might just be you.

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Post #: 32

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 3:36:02 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I am not talking about not being allowed in events.I am just talking about the overall impression in general towards male subs.No,I can't ever think of any situation where male subs were denied access to a event,unless it was stated before hand that single male subs may not enter due to other reasons.Usually a swingers party,which I clearly understand that.

That would be stereotyping or people having a different opinion. That's not discrimination. The latter term gets thrown around way too much, in My opinion. If you aren't being permitted to go where others go, within the parameters of the event, and you've done nothing via personal actions for people to prevent your attendance, THAT would be discrimination. (Doesn't apply, of course, if you've given reason not to be welcome, like breaking the dungeon rules.)

As for stereotyping, let's be very realistic. There are times those stereotypes are earned. Lots of public clubs have seen 'creepy, stalker guy' come and go. Plenty of tourists have paved the way for people to have been known to ask inappropriate things, like asking complete strangers if they can lick their shoes. The reason that everybody knows the term "do-me" is because it happens often enough.

In fairness, however, male subs aren't the only ones who deal with stereotypes. If anybody, switches get the worst rep because everybody knows somebody who was in a relationship with a switch who tried to turn the tables in power structure. Femdoms? How many people think they are all bitchy or ice queens? Male Doms are just looking to get laid, of course. (bullshit) Fem subs? Well, haven't you heard that they just want to brat but have a Dom to take care of them? It's not the way that everybody is, but there are enough examples that keep the stereotypes going.

Do you want to know who really *was* discriminated against for some time? Transfolks. This was particularly true for a time for those who were MtF. Transwomen (pre op and even post op) weren't always allowed to attend events for females. (This was where I saw it happening because I was participating in Femdom events. I'm sure it was out there the other way, too, but I don't attend functions focused on male Doms.) Literally, people living as women were told they weren't *really* women, so they weren't allowed to attend. THAT is discrimination.

While we are on the topic of what is and what is not discrimination, there are a few things in the not category that folks really do need to consider when going to kink events. I have the advantage of experience on this one because I change location every 2-5 years, so I have to integrate into new areas fairly regularly. I also happen to be pretty successful at it.

What people need to remember is that kink groups are no different than any other established social groups. YOU are the new person that means whether you do well there or not is, for the most part YOUR responsibility. Your ability to do well in groups, pick up social cues, how you present yourself, and all of the other stuff that applies in the non kink world will be the same. It's not any different than if you go to the birthday party of a friend of a friend where you don't know anybody. All of those other people probably already know each other, enjoy each others company, had socialization plans for the evening, and had plans on how they were going to interact with others while there. Those things don't change just because you happened to show up. It's not up to them to make sure you have a good time. It's up to you. If you happen to fail at that task, that's not discrimination, either.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 33

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 3:44:33 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Those 2500 likes on FB really mean nothing. My daughter has close to that because she accepts every single person who asks her to friend her. Total strangers. She just likes to collect them all like she collected Pokemon cards as a kid....."gotta get em all!"

So if you're like her....yeah, means nothing. It's just a collecting thing among teens especially. I'm betting a lot of them come across your porn or are like most....they ask to be friends with absolutely anyone and everyone. The porn stuff doesn't make you something special or means you are submissive or means you even know anything at all about bdsm or d/s or M/s or S/m or anything else really except how to play a role in a movie.

I know, off topic, but I'm going to do it anyway.

If I was honestly so shallow that I accepted every friend invitation that ever crossed My desk, I would expect people not to think that I took the word very seriously. Sure, I could be called a picture collector, a status junkie, or a lot of other things, but it sure wouldn't be somebody who really meant it in calling someone the word "friend".

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 34

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 5:29:58 AM

LillyBoPeep

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One of the major groups in our community is very accepting of trans people and homosexual couples. The other doesn't seem to be. The group that is not is populated mostly by older people, which may or may not make a difference. When I first started going to their events, I remember a new transwoman who came, and normally with new people (especially female subs), everyone makes it a point to be friendly and say hello -- not in this case. I sat next to her and tried to talk to her, but no one else even introduced themselves to her.

The other group has a lot of variety - trans people, gay/lesbian, androgynous folks who don't want a definition, etc.

But each and every group you go to is going to be different and have its own culture and its own downfalls. No group can ever be perfect because human beings just aren't perfect.

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Post #: 35

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 8:11:40 AM

TheLilSquaw

Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

So you can honestly sit there and say there is no discrimination towards male submissives in this "community"?Just some of the comments I have read from some of the "pros" here on Collarchat can be disturbing at times.I'm not looking to cause any aurgument,I'm just calling a I see it.I know there are good people in this community too.Thats why I stay here on Collarchat.For every bit of the "know it alls" on here,there are also descent people on here that I could get alot out of listening to.

Just for the record,I've been in contact with people in my local community and I will be getting involved here real soon.I have alway recieved messages from Dommes lately as well.Anyways,theres the local community and then theres the "International BDSM Community",which I would consider Collarme/Collarchat to be a big player in that.It is nice when I can talk to like minded people from around the world.

What do YOU mean by discrimination?
What comments are you talking about, that YOU find so distrubing?

I have been in CollarMe chat once maybe 2 xs since 2001. So I can't comment but I am sure it's like any other chat room. I don't see discrimination towards male subs on the CollarMe forums, in-fact I think some of the most respected posters are male subs.

I think the MAJOR problem you are running into is you are using "chat" and your expereinces in fetish videos to gauge your experience within the bdsm community and specifically with dommes.

ETA: I am a pro and I do videos. I can also tell you that although i am the same person, how I approach and deal with my PERSONAL sub/slaves and primary are very different than I approach someone seeing me as a pro or a casual video bottom or paid model.

< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 3/9/2013 8:17:10 AM >

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(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 36

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 8:13:53 AM

TheLilSquaw

Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

If I was honestly so shallow that I accepted every friend invitation that ever crossed My desk, I would expect people not to think that I took the word very seriously. Sure, I could be called a picture collector, a status junkie, or a lot of other things, but it sure wouldn't be somebody who really meant it in calling someone the word "friend".

On fetlife, I do accept all "friend" requests.
However, I do look at fetlife differently than facebook.
For ME I use fet to network with other models, producers, photographers, and things of that nature.

< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 3/9/2013 8:14:03 AM >

_____________________________

LilSquaw
Lifestyle & ProSwitch
Fetish Model, Producer, and Website Owner

http://www.clips4sale.com/69201
http://www.kinkbomb.com/studio/Sadistic_Babygirl_

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 37

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 8:39:32 AM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

Outside of videos,I have been to BDSM events before.Granted its been a few years but don't assume I don't know what this Lifestyle is about.I also don't rate "facebook" as a measure of succes but I was using it as a point.Quit always trying to be "Negative Nancy" all the time because its those people and their advice I ignore.If someone keeps blabbering like they have all the answers,then that right there just lets me know thats person advice probaly isn't always worth that much either.Yes,of course I know the difference between the real BDSM community and doing fetish videos.1 is a business and 1 is not.Still though,that doesn't mean I didn't make some friends in the process.

Anyways,point of the thread was whether times have changed for the better for BDSM in general,not jut male subs.At least where I live here in Pinellas,Florida,I have not had much of a problem being open about who I am.This area is fairly tolerant and is mostly a "live and let live county".Now,I realize there are parts in the World where many people do not have this option at all.I talked to one male sub from a country where women aren't even allowed to drive.Clearly,I have to imagine its impossible to come out open without hassles.

I do think in alot of ways times have changed for the better.Not just for BDSM but really,everyday simple living has improved.I couldn't imagine living in the Florida summers without air conditioning.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 3/9/2013 8:41:29 AM >

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(in reply to TheLilSquaw)

Post #: 38

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 8:48:28 AM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

I know who I am and I am a submissive.I don't need anyone on here to confirm to me that I am either.That is one area I know who I am.I've been been this way almost my whole life,long before I even realized there was a word to describe who I am.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 39

RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 8:53:10 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682
I do think in alot of ways times have changed for the better.

As I look at my kids (mid 20's now) and their peers what I see is a group of people who, by and large, have WAY fewer sexual hang ups than my generation. So in that sense times are getting better for BDSM. I really can't imagine either of my children giving much thought to a friend of theirs who liked BDSM. Insofar as I know their friends things are similar. Ditto with "gay" and a host of other things. I know that's not universal but I do think it's a general trend.

Us old codgers are slowly dying off and taking some of our religious repression with us.

_____________________________

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Post #: 40

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