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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 8:53:22 AM   
TheLilSquaw


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Outside of videos,I have been to BDSM events before.Granted its been a few years but don't assume I don't know what this Lifestyle is about.I also don't rate "facebook" as a measure of succes but I was using it as a point.Quit always trying to be "Negative Nancy" all the time because its those people and their advice I ignore.If someone keeps blabbering like they have all the answers,then that right there just lets me know thats person advice probaly isn't always worth that much either.Yes,of course I know the difference between the real BDSM community and doing fetish videos.1 is a business and 1 is not.Still though,that doesn't mean I didn't make some friends in the process.





Charles,
You are the one who made the statement that male subs where discriminated against.
I asked for clarification.

You are the one who referred to your experience with dommes in chat.
So I replied to that reference.

I rarely make assumptions, I do try to ask for clarification.
Which I did with your statements.

I also explained why I think your view of the lifestyle is skewed the way it is.
I got that from YOUR posts.
I didn't make assumptions.




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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 8:54:29 AM   
Charles6682


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From: Saint Pete,FL
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You are correct LadyPact,about the stereotypes other groups of people in this Lifestyle must face too.I certainly don't mean to make light of other peoples situation.I know not everywhere is as accepting as where I live.

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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 8:55:43 AM   
TheLilSquaw


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682
I do think in alot of ways times have changed for the better.

As I look at my kids (mid 20's now) and their peers what I see is a group of people who, by and large, have WAY fewer sexual hang ups than my generation. So in that sense times are getting better for BDSM. I really can't imagine either of my children giving much thought to a friend of theirs who liked BDSM. Insofar as I know their friends things are similar. Ditto with "gay" and a host of other things. I know that's not universal but I do think it's a general trend.

Us old codgers are slowly dying off and taking some of our religious repression with us.



I think the world in general is changing.
That as humans our views are changing.
Many things over the last few years have happened that are major game changers both in "alternative lifestyles" and mainstream society IMO.




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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 8:55:55 AM   
Charles6682


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I didn't mean you in particular.

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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 8:58:33 AM   
TheLilSquaw


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I didn't mean you in particular.



Ok. It showed in reply to my post.



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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 9:01:11 AM   
Thaz


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Yup. Its getting allmost mainstream. We'll have to find something REALLY wierd soon to seperate us from the Mundane. Custard juggling anyone? (says he who watched a delightfull young lady pay a pro domme to be dipped in a vat of custard the other day. Your Kink is not blah blah ;-) )

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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 9:03:05 AM   
Charles6682


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Just from some of the comments from some of the people right here in this thread have even said that male subs have a hard time finding acceptance in the general community.Either a sub like me keeps my mouth shut and just go with the flow or I can speak my mind and be blacklisted as some "do me" sub or someone who has no clue about who a submissive is.That somehow I don't have a clue about this lifestyle or community.That someone I don't know who I am.Don't think I'm just going to sit by quietly and let people think they can speak for me.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 3/9/2013 9:47:26 AM >


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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 9:26:10 AM   
TheLilSquaw


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From: Middle River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thaz

Yup. Its getting allmost mainstream. We'll have to find something REALLY wierd soon to seperate us from the Mundane. Custard juggling anyone? (says he who watched a delightfull young lady pay a pro domme to be dipped in a vat of custard the other day. Your Kink is not blah blah ;-) )


Sploshing is pretty close to custard juggling IMO. Lol


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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 9:52:31 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682
Just from some of the comments from some of the people right here in this thread have even said that male subs have a hard time finding acceptance in the general community.Either a sub like me keeps my mouth shut and just go with the flow or I can speak my mind and be blacklisted as some "do me" sub or someone who has no clue about who a submissive is.That somehow I don't have a clue about this lifestyle or community.That someone I don't know who I am.Don't think I'm just going to sit by quietly and let people think they can speak for me.

OK, I have to admit. This rant seems like a total non-sequitur in this thread. Can you elaborate on which comments are demonstrating that people are putting words in your mouth because honestly I'm terribly confused.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 9:59:28 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Just from some of the comments from some of the people right here in this thread have even said that male subs have a hard time finding acceptance in the general community.Either a sub like me keeps my mouth shut and just go with the flow or I can speak my mind and be blacklisted as some "do me" sub or someone who has no clue about who a submissive is.That somehow I don't have a clue about this lifestyle or community.That someone I don't know who I am.Don't think I'm just going to sit by quietly and let people think they can speak for me.



Who has said in this thread that male subs have to keep their mouth shut?
I can personally name more than a few male subs on the forums who are not only vocal and out spoken but respected by people on both sides of the kneel.

I'd love for you to point out where someone put words in your mouth in this thread because after I read this post I went back and re-read the thread to see if I was missing something.



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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 10:39:17 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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It looks like he's mostly talking about my post.

One of my really really good friends these days is a guy who IDs as sub in our community, and we've talked a lot about how he just mostly chose to opt out, due to the bizarre F/m culture we have here.
And he's a GREAT guy, well spoken, intelligent, well employed. I've never seen any off-the-wall behavior from him.

Like it or not, these things do happen in communities.
A lady dominant was once overheard to say "sometimes I just like to hit him until the 'feeling' goes away." And she was congratulated. If a male had said something similar it would be "omgz red flag!"



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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 10:51:40 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
A lady dominant was once overheard to say "sometimes I just like to hit him until the 'feeling' goes away." And she was congratulated. If a male had said something similar it would be "omgz red flag!"

*laughs* uh.... you don't read Kana and LW's posts? :)


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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 10:58:44 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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um well yeah, I've read plenty of Kana's posts. =p And plenty of other edge players - there are lots of them. I like a good bit of edge myself (says the chick who used to play with curling irons), so yeah - nothing new or unusual there.

But certainly you do understand the typical MDom/fsub culture, the pillow princess sort of thing. These same chicks who will crucify a male dominant for sneezing too loudly and scaring his sub will say "you go girl!" to someone who admits to wailing on a guy until she stops feeling angry. I guess "the feeling" was too ambiguous.

THAT'S what I'm talking about.

We used to have a crass loudmouth lady dom around here who would treat people like trash if they didn't fall in line with her inane requests at munches and first time meets. And she was a respected figure for years. =p

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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 10:58:56 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
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From: Middle River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

.
A lady dominant was once overheard to say "sometimes I just like to hit him until the 'feeling' goes away." And she was congratulated. If a male had said something similar it would be "omgz red flag!"




That wouldn't be a red flag for me personally.
Granted I love when my primary threatens and does such things. Lol

I also know many couples here and in RT who feel the same way.

Kana and lw
LP and clip

To name a couple from the forums that come to mind. Lol


< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 3/9/2013 10:59:36 AM >


_____________________________

LilSquaw
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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 11:01:43 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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Please read my previous post.

My former and I would play with anger; it was a great outlet for him, and for me. But we had a solid relationship. I would not go play around there with someone I just met, nor would I be expected to. But in some communities, those same expectations aren't available for msubs.

I'm not new to BDSM or to edgeplay, mmkay? But I don't think it's cool to have those sorts of expectations of newbies or people with whom you are not in a relationship.

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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 11:03:45 AM   
TheLilSquaw


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From: Middle River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

um well yeah, I've read plenty of Kana's posts. =p And plenty of other edge players - there are lots of them. I like a good bit of edge myself (says the chick who used to play with curling irons), so yeah - nothing new or unusual there.

But certainly you do understand the typical MDom/fsub culture, the pillow princess sort of thing. These same chicks who will crucify a male dominant for sneezing too loudly and scaring his sub will say "you go girl!" to someone who admits to wailing on a guy until she stops feeling angry. I guess "the feeling" was too ambiguous.

THAT'S what I'm talking about.

We used to have a crass loudmouth lady dom around here who would treat people like trash if they didn't fall in line with her inane requests at munches and first time meets. And she was a respected figure for years. =p


The princess thing isn't the norm or majority in the d/s or m/s dynamics that I have seen.

I also think there is a difference between someone being abusive and being sadistic within their dynamics. To someone on the outside it could easily look like abuse.

In the munches and groups I have been part of men and women who treated other's like trash or like the event was a meat market where corrected or asked to leave and not come back. I'm thankful that has been my typical experience over the years.




< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 3/9/2013 11:04:50 AM >


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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 11:06:07 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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It's pretty typical around here.

It's important to realize that not all communities are the same. You can talk about your own and say "that doesn't happen where I live" but it may happen all the time where someone else lives.

I haven't been to any events outside the midwest (yet), but the thing here seems to be who you know and what you do for certain people. You can get away with all sorts of bad behavior as long as you suck up to the right people.

And I'm not just talking about outsiders looking in, if you've followed my posts.

I'm talking about men who participated, or tried to, and left because they themselves felt abused. Or they felt that there were unnecessary and unsafe expectations put on them.

A lot of things don't bother me; my former was a wonderfully Sadistic guy.
What bothers me, though, is the hypocrisy.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 3/9/2013 11:07:38 AM >


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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 11:09:38 AM   
TheLilSquaw


Posts: 2340
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From: Middle River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

It's pretty typical around here.

It's important to realize that not all communities are the same. You can talk about your own and say "that doesn't happen where I live" but it may happen all the time where someone else lives.

I haven't been to any events outside the midwest (yet), but the thing here seems to be who you know and what you do for certain people. You can get away with all sorts of bad behavior as long as you suck up to the right people.


I do realize, that your mileage may vary from mine.
For MANY reasons including location.

I wasn't saying that your experience wasn't real or valid just pointing out that it isn't always the norm.

Like I said, I do consider myself blessed that asshats male or female aren't tolerated in the groups I have been involved in.

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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 11:10:32 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

To be honest, I don't think it would have been all that different for me. I still would have been a submissive personality. I still would have submitted to my husband. I still would have believed what I believe now.

I guess I could see how you are glad it is different for a male sub, but personally for me, no it would have been very similar to what I have now.



Probably yes and no, the difference today (which is something some feminists can't get their hands around) is you had the choice, which would wouldn't have 200 years ago. Being a female submissive today means you have the choice, that if your inner being says you want to be the sub/slave/whatever, you can, but if you don't want to, you can be a dominant, an equal, whatever.

The difference was 200 years ago most women didn't have the choice (and I realize, LW, you were speaking only for yourself, and your situation:), 200 years ago women for the most part were the property of their husbands and before that, their family, and unlike today, had little power or legal protection, church and state made women into their husband's vassals. I am sure there were husbands and wives who lived more as equals, or even femmedom relationships, but it was up to their men to decide that. One women had legal rights outside their marriage, it changed the nature of things and allowed more and more choice:)

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RE: Have times changed for the better for BDSM? - 3/9/2013 11:15:39 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: muhly22222

FR

I would think that the "traditional" gender roles would have made it fairly easy for a dominant man and a submissive woman to find their matches and be in the kind of relationship they desired. Whether that would also have had a kinky twist, there's no way of knowing. I would imagine there were fewer couples who engaged in kink as part of their sex lives, but I really have no data on which to base that idea.

But for both dominant female personalities and submissive male ones, it would have likely been hard to fit into society. You read about strong female personalities in the early 1800s, and the general thought about them with respect to relationships was that they needed to be "tamed" by the one who was to be their man. With that being said, though, I think there would have been a lower incidence of both types at the time, with the way children would have been raised to expect a certain role in their relationships.

And of course, although these don't necessarily fall within BDSM, those interested in non-monogamous and non-hetero relationships are much more welcomed than they would have been then.

To answer the thread's title...I would say yes. Tolerance is pretty generally a good thing (although I can think of a few hypothetical instances where I would find tolerance bad...but maybe I'm intolerant? Hmmm...), and the ability of more people to be happy is generally good, as well.

Thomas Paine once said something I think was profound, that intolerance and tolerance both were equally bad. He said with intolerance, a person took on the right to judge what others were doing, find it lacking, and then decide the right to make their lives a living hell, restrict them and so forth. He said that the tolerant person reserved the right to judge what others were doing, perhaps find it lacking, but decided they didn't have the right to interfere. He said the problem wasn't the action, that it was in the person deciding they had the right to judge where the problem came in, and both were equally guilty. Obviously, it is preferable if you are the one being judged that people be tolerant, but it would be better if people simply respected your right to live as you wish and not judge it.......among other things, tolerant people are not that likely to stand up for the rights of those trampled by those who are intolerant...lots of people claim to be tolerant towards gay people, but a lot of them won't lift a finger to help gays by, for example, voting against a same sex marriage ban, or worse, voting for it while claiming tolerance but saying 'it is wrong'.....

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