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RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 12:43:25 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Yes, as with any issue on which the PPLs find themselves on the wrong side, it must be racism. I'm amazed at how many of your statements can be turned around and work the other way, as well.

I'm also amazed at how you presuppose that white people are the major racists in the world. If I wanted to do the research, I could come up with dozens of examples of black people attacking white people simple because the white people are white. Off the top of my head, the truck driver during the riots in the aftermath of the Rodney King Verdict comes to mind. Of course, "only white people can be racist" is a steaming pile of bullshit that needs to be obliterated as much as any statement that is as offensive, going the other way.

The only way we're going to end racism is to end all of it; not to "sanction" it when directed at the long-ago perpetrators because it's "allowed".



Peace and comfort,



Michael


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RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 12:44:06 PM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: inkyblacknight

Maybe I'm missing something but seriously, we're saying a black kid attacked a grown white man because the grown white man was following him


Minor correction, but George had ceased following him a few minutes before the attack.

quote:

As a person of the brown persuasion, I don't excuse Trayvon potentially having attacked George, but I understand where he might have come from. If a white person followed me in the dark, in any part of town, I would be scared out of my wits and would definitely be ready to defend myself at any perceived threat.


If Trayvon were on trial for his attack on George, I would equally support Trayvon's right to argue why he felt he was justified. He might have a really good case, and it's certainly a tragedy that he died as a result of that attack.

quote:

We're all splitting hairs about legality and trying to deny the fact that Zimmerman shot a teenage boy because he was afraid he would be attacked for following someone in the dark.


At the moment he fired the gun, George was on the ground, having taken a broken nose, with swelling and bleeding on multiple parts of his head, while trying to get away for nearly a minute. It seems more that he used the gun as a last resort out of fear of imminent death, and anyone in that position would have good reason to have that fear.

quote:

"Well he wasn't TECHNICALLY the aggressor, so he wasn't actually being threatening lol" doesn't cut it. Racism plays a huge factor here, which I think no one wants to talk about.


That really isn't what I'm saying btw. Florida law says that if you're the aggressor, that you must exhaust all reasonable options to retreat before using force, so that's why it comes up. The fact that there is no evidence that proves George is the aggressor simply removes the legal requirement to retreat.

Of course, there's not any reasonable options for retreat when you're pinned to the ground and unable to escape so that point is kind of moot.

quote:


I don't think half the people on this forum understand how frightening it is to be walking down a dark street, and having someone of privilege following you within a couple feet, or inches, in some cases. If Zimmerman was so close that Martin even had the proximity to turn and tussle with him, he was probably far too close to be innocently following someone.


There's no evidence of George ever following that close. At the time George last saw Trayvon prior to the attack, there was probably 100 feet between them.

(in reply to inkyblacknight)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 12:50:15 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Obviously.......Zimmy getting caught lying under oath has his sycophants grasping and hoping for something similar......Ha ha....


If/when both sides get caught lying under oath the law, innocent until proven guilty, favors the Defendant......HA HA

Are you saying it's OK for someone to lie under oath and get away with killing someone because a witness on the other side lied?

Nope. Just saying what the law says. Of course, some might consider it payback for OJ lying under oath and getting away with murdering two people.


Any hard proof about those accusations about OJ?

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RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 1:17:25 PM   
Kana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: inkyblacknight
and he had right to be fearful of being attacked by a white man seeing as he was black, and white people are the major racists in the world.

Oh my goodness. Well, thanks for airing your prejudices up front. That allows me to dismiss pretty much everything and anything else you may say as being completely biased.

Let's be reasonable here-people are racist. It's the human condition. Black, white, middle eastern, asian, albino, what the funk ever. Hutus mass murder Tsutsi's, Sunni's kill Shia's, The Japanese rape Nanking, Indians and Paki's slaughter each other, hell, the list goes on and on and on.
We live in what many people have labeled the age of genocide. Humans mass slaughter each other based on religion, skin color, economics, social class, belief systems, hell, just cause they have shit the other person wants to have.
Sad but true.


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RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 1:22:01 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
Any hard proof about those accusations about OJ?

*sigh* I wouldn't bother. There was just a thread ?yesterday? where this was discussed and it was made abundantly clear that nobody believed in "innocent until proven guilty".


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 1:44:27 PM   
inkyblacknight


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You're doing exactly what I said I couldn't wait for- playing the "poor totally-not-racist" white man. You might be able to come up with a dozen results of black people killing white people just for being white, but I can come up with hundreds, thousands of the opposite. Of course, there's always the fact that the privileged don't really have a place to tell the oppressed what is and is not offensive/oppressive. If you're a white man, as your icon seems to show, you have no place telling a person of color that teh poor wite menz are victims of black supremacy, even though straight white men run this country. In the same way that men are not taught to be afraid of walking alone at night for fear of being raped, white men are not taught to be afraid of walking alone at night for fear of being lynched.

Men have no place telling a woman that it's silly to be afraid to walk alone at night. Straight people have no place telling queer people what is and is not offensive or problematic. White people have no place telling a person of color what is and is not offensive or racist.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2011/narratives/victims
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/03/justice/mississippi-hate-crime
http://www.krcrtv.com/news/local/Three-Men-Arrested-for-Racial-Hate-Crime-in-Marysville/-/14322302/18241446/-/ak4yrhz/-/index.html

"71.9 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias.
16.3 percent were victims of an anti-white bias."

You're right, racism against whites is absolutely RAMPANT.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 1:46:24 PM   
inkyblacknight


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Let me rephrase-

In this country, white people are the majority of racist individuals. Statistics prove that pretty well. I would be more inclined to agree with you if straight white cisgender males did not run the country, but if there were equal representation of other races, creeds, orientations, and sex. But there isn't.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 1:48:09 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


There's no evidence of George ever following that close. At the time George last saw Trayvon prior to the attack, there was probably 100 feet between them.


How do you explain the alleged broken nose. Did he punch him from 100' away? Did he close the gap by teleportation?


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RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 1:49:40 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: inkyblacknight



In this country, white people are the majority of racist individuals.

Would you agree that is in and of itself a racist statement?

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 2:00:29 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
this girl lied about being too fucking overwhelmed to go to the funeral of her boyfriend who she heard get murdered?

He wasn't her boyfriend; if he had been, she would have been at the funeral.


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RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 2:05:02 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
There is no crime in trying to defend yourself from someone who might very well want to lynch you.



Your assertion is hilarious: it takes more than one person to lynch someone.

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Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 2:06:45 PM   
subrob1967


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Isn't George Zimmerman Latino?

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RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 2:11:10 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Isn't George Zimmerman Latino?

Are you gonna be another one saying that only whites can be racist?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 2:16:11 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


There's no evidence of George ever following that close. At the time George last saw Trayvon prior to the attack, there was probably 100 feet between them.


How do you explain the alleged broken nose. Did he punch him from 100' away? Did he close the gap by teleportation?



The broken nose happened after George had lost sight of Trayvon for at least a couple minutes, while returning to his truck with keys in his hand. There's nothing to support the contention that George was still following Trayvon at that point.

It's important to note, that the spot where George agreed with Sean that he didn't have to follow Trayvon, and the spot where George's nose was broken....are both the same spot, 20-30 seconds walk from George's truck.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 2:19:20 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Isn't George Zimmerman Latino?

Are you gonna be another one saying that only whites can be racist?


I don't think he implied that, as much as he was just responding to this claim:

quote:

Maybe I'm missing something but seriously, we're saying a black kid attacked a grown white man because the grown white man was following him


Correcting that individual that George isn't white is fitting.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 2:24:46 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: inkyblacknight
You're doing exactly what I said I couldn't wait for- playing the "poor totally-not-racist" white man.

Ahhh, so you were trolling.
quote:

You might be able to come up with a dozen results of black people killing white people just for being white, but I can come up with hundreds, thousands of the opposite.

Let's see it-I wanna see thousands of cases over the last, ooooh, say decade or so. And don't even be going back to Pre-gennum days because my ass is Irish, my Grandparents are off the boat and they were fucking oppressed serfs to the Brits til they left in 1900 so I got no sympathy here. I do know that where I live in Bmore there's racist crime of all types from both sides. I can name at least four cases pretty quick where white men where jumped in racial acts simply for being white in the wrong neighborhood.
quote:

Of course, there's always the fact that the privileged don't really have a place to tell the oppressed what is and is not offensive/oppressive.

I sure felt privileged when i was homeless and living on the streets, in shelters and eating at soup kitchens. Yeah, privileged, that's the word for it.
And we won't even discuss prison.
quote:

If you're a white man, as your icon seems to show, you have no place telling a person of color that teh poor wite menz are victims of black supremacy, even though straight white men run this country.

Who they fuck ever said that? I clearly stated that all people are racist. It's the human condition. We get frightened/threatened/insecure/challenged by the strange, the unusual, the different.
English-it's not that tough to read.Try it.
quote:

In the same way that men are not taught to be afraid of walking alone at night for fear of being raped, white men are not taught to be afraid of walking alone at night for fear of being lynched.

Nope, We don't get taught that. But we do get taught that there are some places, neighborhoods etc...that you don't go into if you wanna walk out with your skin...because the color of your skin will be considered reason enough to get a beat down.
Racism cuts both ways.
Are you denying that blacks can be racist too?
Please do, cuz I need a real good laugh right now...

quote:

Men have no place telling a woman that it's silly to be afraid to walk alone at night. Straight people have no place telling queer people what is and is not offensive or problematic. White people have no place telling a person of color what is and is not offensive or racist.

Ahhhh, and the biased racism comes out. Because only minorities can know what it's like to be biased against. We have no concepts of empathy, consideration, have no capacity to understand how another may feel, have zero idea of what suffering is.
Yeah right.
Keep slinging. The only one you are making look racist is, well, you.


quote:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2011/narratives/victims
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/03/justice/mississippi-hate-crime
http://www.krcrtv.com/news/local/Three-Men-Arrested-for-Racial-Hate-Crime-in-Marysville/-/14322302/18241446/-/ak4yrhz/-/index.html

"71.9 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias.
16.3 percent were victims of an anti-white bias."

Well, seeing how blacks and minorities are almost never charged with hate crimes, that kinda skews the stats (And isn't the very concept of a "hate crime" kinda un-american? I mean, it implies that one person gets extra protection/rights from the law based on skin color, gender, sexual preference etc...And here I was thinking we were all created equal and enjoyed equal protection under the law. Silly, silly Kana)
And since you like links:
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/04/06/crowd-beats-strips-robs-tourist-on-st-patricks-day-incident-caught-on-camera/
(There have been any number of similar attacks in Baltimore over the past few years. And this ain't alone. Face it, we live in a racist world. It's that simple. But don't go telling me that since I'm white, I'm not allowed to have opinions/feelings on this)

quote:


You're right, racism against whites is absolutely RAMPANT.

Nope-I said racism is rampant.
Again, I know dark skinned blacks who don't like light skinned ones. I also know blacks who don't like latins, puerto ricans, asians. Course, I also know latins who feel the same in reverse. And of course I know some whites who don't like blacks and vice versa. I can fer sure tell you one thing-When I was in prison, being white sure as fuck wasn't an advantage.
Wanna talk about feeling like a minority? Be the only white nonviolent offender in a tier filled with 23 black Class A violent offenders.
That was some scary ass shit there.
Personally, I think it's sad. Racism doesn't tell me a thing about the person being objectified, but it tells me worlds about the racist.
And on that note, it's simply delightful how much one can gather about another from a mere three posts...

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RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 2:32:36 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: inkyblacknight

"71.9 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias.
16.3 percent were victims of an anti-white bias."

You're right, racism against whites is absolutely RAMPANT.


A quick look at racial demographics in the US shows:

White or European American = 72.4%
Black or African American = 12.6%

So, it seems that racism appears in both groups at very similar percentages.

The only reason whites are the "majority of racists" in America, is because whites are the majority of people overall.

(in reply to inkyblacknight)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 2:37:26 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
The only way we're going to end racism is to end all of it

I advocate to either kill the aggressors or to lock them in a monastery. It will reduce the number of savages that reproduce their animal genes and thereby civilize the future generations produced by the gene pool of their population.


_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 3:31:29 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: inkyblacknight

In this country, white people are the majority of racist individuals. Statistics prove that pretty well.

The percentages you cited in your previous post comparing whites and blacks reflect single-bias racial crime incidents.

Using the underlying data, if we hypothesize that racial bias is evenly distributed across racial groups, then we would expect the representation of those groups among single-bias racial crime offenders to closely follow their representation in society.

Blacks are 12.6 percent of the population and commit 11.8 percent of the single-bias racial crimes: 93.6 percent of expectation.
Whites are 72.4 percent of the population and commit 48.0 percent of the single-bias racial crimes: 66.3 percent of expectation.

We can conclude, therefore, that the representation of whites among single-bias racial crime offenders is below expectation for the hypothesis that racial bias is evenly distributed across racial groups in the United States.

Sources:
FBI Single-Bias Racial Crime Data
Population Demographics by Race

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/7/2013 3:37:29 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Witness lied under oath in Trayvon Martin case - 3/7/2013 3:39:51 PM   
igor2003


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


There's no evidence of George ever following that close. At the time George last saw Trayvon prior to the attack, there was probably 100 feet between them.


How do you explain the alleged broken nose. Did he punch him from 100' away? Did he close the gap by teleportation?



The broken nose happened after George had lost sight of Trayvon for at least a couple minutes, while returning to his truck with keys in his hand. There's nothing to support the contention that George was still following Trayvon at that point. Of course he wasn't "following" Trayvon since he had lost sight of him. But it is really quite apparent that even though he couldn't "follow" him, he was staying in that area trying to find him.

It's important to note, that the spot where George agreed with Sean that he didn't have to follow Trayvon, and the spot where George's nose was broken....are both the same spot, 20-30 seconds walk from George's truck. In the 911 recording the dispatcher asked whether Z was following M at the 2:22 minute mark. The call went on for another 1:43 minutes. That is anywhere from 3 to 5 times as long as you say it would have taken him to walk back to his truck. But as you said, HE WAS STILL IN THE SAME AREA! He wasn't walking back to his truck at all. He was staying in that same area hoping to see where Martin had "disappeared" to.

Then, once the physical altercation started...if Martin had attacked Zimmerman, and Zimmerman was trying to get away, common sense would tell you that Zimmerman would have been trying to get back to his truck. But the fight did NOT proceed in that direction. Instead, it moved in the direction of where Martin was staying, as if HE was the one trying to get to safety.

Also, Zimmerman "claims" that the punch that broke his nose knocked him down immediately...at the "T" in the sidewalk (remember...Martin was supposed to have approached Zimmerman and sucker punched him at the "T"). So if Martin then mounted Zimmerman "MMA style", how is it that Martin was shot and died some 30-40 feet from there?





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(in reply to Raiikun)
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