quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Only in America would disliking guns be considered a sign of some psychological failing. [:D]

I was talking about your fastasies of gun-shot corpses with bullet wounds looking "like big red rosebuds."

Not that I'm surprised you would distort the point. I guess it's kinda necessary for you.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I would PREFER holding the parents accountable when children are left home, unattended, with a loaded gun in the house.

That's it? Period? The end? As it seems to me, the examples clearly show that at least some young people of a certain age can be left alone with firearms present, perfectly safely, and to their benefit if untoward circumstances arise. Why do you PREFER to ignore evidence of that fact even when it's put right under your nose?

K.

quote:

edit: one also does not know what end result shall occur from any incident. One might hope for merely being robbed yet wind up dead. The film In Cold Blood covered that (true story). Rape can turn into being killed. There is no clairvoyance for the victim. So what would be better? Act as if one shall survive, thus requiring no firearm defensive posture? That's taking quite the gamble. Like driving without using the seat belt; a won't happen to me posture.

Seems more prudent to train your children right.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Like the 11 year old clay shooter who killed the two men who came into her home while she was alone and tried to attack her?

Since you're replying to me, to what are you referring and in what sense?

Wow, you didnt hear? Its been all over FB recently.

Shooting in Butte, Montana

Shotgun preteen vs. illegal alien Home Invaders :

Butte, Montana November 5, 2007

Two illegal aliens, Raphael Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.

Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.

When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest.

Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, & MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news.........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home and herself against two murderous, illegal aliens and she wins, she is still alive.

Now that is Gun Control!

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-81159.html

It made all the blogger sites, has been passed around on social media sites...shuffled about in emails... and there isnt a word of truth in any of it.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/homeinvasion.asp

But its still making the circuit, people are still buying into this and holding it up as a perfect example of what happens when we dont have gun control.

Its a shame people have to resort to lying to get what they want.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its a shame people have to resort to lying to get what they want.

True enough, so here ya go...

PHOENIX (AP) – A 14-year-old boy shot and nearly killed an intruder who broke into his Phoenix home and pulled a gun on him while he was watching his three younger siblings, police said Saturday. ~USA Today

BRYAN COUNTY, Oklahoma - A 12-year-old girl took matters into her own hands during a home invasion in southeast Oklahoma. ~News9.com

K.

My point exactly. There are enough honest stories out there, why lie? Why keep promoting a falsehood?

I have only one question.

WTF are these parents putting their children at risk?

You guys wanna applaud these kids like they are heros.

You think it was wise to leave a 12 year old with access to a gun home alone?

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ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Of course. But the simple fact is, IT HAPPENS and you'd prefer them defenseless (access to a firearm? What??) except when they are adult supervised. Even then they might be the ones to pull the trigger.

I would PREFER holding the parents accountable when children are left home, unattended, with a loaded gun in the house.

What if , could of . but maybe, and if pigs had wings. He was talking about what actually did happen.

What? [8|] I thought it was only about home alone! So why the "gun in the house" distinction?

Oh, that's right. Victim-hood is laudable. Allows you to wear your heart on your sleeve. It's only about the fucking guns to you.

Disgusting. [:'(]

Seems to me tazzy's talking about principles whereas you're an "after the fact" kinda guy clinging to an isolated incident that just happened to end well.

I'm sure if this kid had accidentally shot one of her siblings during, you and your 20/20 hindsight wouldn't be here whereas the principle tazzy's advocating rings as true as ever.

Principles do that; stand the test of time and circumstance...!

Focus.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I would PREFER holding the parents accountable when children are left home, unattended, with a loaded gun in the house.

That's it? Period? The end? As it seems to me, the examples clearly show that at least some young people of a certain age can be left alone with firearms present, perfectly safely, and to their benefit if untoward circumstances arise. Why do you PREFER to ignore evidence of that fact even when it's put right under your nose?

K.

One had no training, as admitted by the mother. The other, we have no clue what training, if any, he had.

I PREFER for parents to actually have to accept responsibility for their own actions. This kid will have to go through years of therapy. Even adults get skattered after shooting someone, and we expect a kid to be able to handle that?

My point is that this never should have happened in the first place. We wouldnt be having this discussion if the 14 year old didnt have access to a gun and was murdered.

I am thankful he wasnt. I have no issues with him knowing how to defend himself. I resent that any kid that age is placed into that position to begin with.

And yet everyone wants to applaud the fact that a kid had to shoot someone trying to break into his home when, had he been with his father, either his father would have shot the man or this situation never would have come up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

edit: one also does not know what end result shall occur from any incident. One might hope for merely being robbed yet wind up dead. The film In Cold Blood covered that (true story). Rape can turn into being killed. There is no clairvoyance for the victim. So what would be better? Act as if one shall survive, thus requiring no firearm defensive posture? That's taking quite the gamble. Like driving without using the seat belt; a won't happen to me posture.

Seems more prudent to train your children right.

The 12 year old girl had NO training.

Seems more prudent to actually parent your children instead of sticking them in front of a TV babysitter.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I need a laugh so I'd love to here how you try to explain this, or are you going to do like you did last time I asked this question and ignore it?

Well in all fairness, he's admited to being choosy. I mean, for example,

he blew off his own government's data earlier in this thread certain that it must be something the NRA cooked up,

and he ignored this topic entirely. You just have to accept that some people are like that. Otherwise they get rude and cranky.

K.

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ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

If you don't remember that's your problem.

Becauuuuuuuse, I'm the one intent on making a point about it? Still batting zero.....

quote:

But to something actually related to the thread.
In the last 20 years you hsve instituted draconian gun control measures and your muder rate is virtually the same.
We have had an upsurge in concealed carry and weapons ownership and our muder rate has cut in half.
I need a laugh so I'd love to here how you try to explain this, or are you going to do like you did last time I asked this question and ignore it?

Ooh, something actually on topic? Kudos....

In the last 20 years, ay....?

So I found this link - United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2011. Some mob called the disastercenter.com. No doubt if the numbers are embarrassing then that goes to the credibility of the site - I know the drill... :)

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Because it's spread over 51 years and the obvious population shift that entails, I went to the bottom chart that expresses crime rates per capita (per 100,000).

And under "Murder", an interesting trend. And you're right, the rate has halved IN THE LAST 20 YEARS.

A quick glimpse by decade:
1960 - 5.1 (per 100,000)
1970 - 7.9
1980 - 10.2 (the worst year listed and note how the rate has *doubled* in 20 years)
1990 - 9.4
2000 - 5.5
2010 - 4.8 (2011, the last year listed - 4.7)

Dunno where you get your stats from (no-one does or likely ever will) but your most recent rate (2011 - 4.7) is a small improvement from over 50 years ago. It figures the myopic only wanna talk about the last 20 years....

Overall, your murder rate is roughly the same, too - just as you say with Oz. BUT, you do recall that link I posted just the other day (and I do post so very few), that compared murder rates by country?

Australia's is currently 1.0 murders per 100,000.

So do enjoy your belly-laugh of success with your 4.7.... [8D]

Focus.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I would PREFER holding the parents accountable when children are left home, unattended, with a loaded gun in the house.

That's it? Period? The end? As it seems to me, the examples clearly show that at least some young people of a certain age can be left alone with firearms present, perfectly safely, and to their benefit if untoward circumstances arise. Why do you PREFER to ignore evidence of that fact even when it's put right under your nose?

K.

One had no training, as admitted by the mother. The other, we have no clue what training, if any, he had.

I PREFER for parents to actually have to accept responsibility for their own actions. This kid will have to go through years of therapy. Even adults get skattered after shooting someone, and we expect a kid to be able to handle that?

My point is that this never should have happened in the first place. We wouldnt be having this discussion if the 14 year old didnt have access to a gun and was murdered.

I am thankful he wasnt. I have no issues with him knowing how to defend himself. I resent that any kid that age is placed into that position to begin with.

And yet everyone wants to applaud the fact that a kid had to shoot someone trying to break into his home when, had he been with his father, either his father would have shot the man or this situation never would have come up.

Better the 14 year old than nobody.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

So do enjoy your belly-laugh of success with your 4.7

In other words, you're choosing to ignore the fact that the drop since 1990 coincides with the widespread adoption of concealed carry laws.

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Kewl. Nobody will notice. Next trick?