RE: gun control and tragedies

RE: gun control and tragedies (Full Version)

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Focus50 -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 5:29:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Not myopic at all. If we use fifty year then we have had as much sucess as Australia. I s'pose it's "success" when you conveniently ignore your murder rate is over 4 times ours.... [:-] Gonna hang on to that "myopic" assertion awhile longer. quote: I chose 20 years because that is the time period when your deaconian gun control was supposed to have done so much it did virtually nothing. If you mean the gun laws because of the Port Arthur spree killing, pretty sure there hasn't been a spree killing here since. (as I hold my breath and "touch wood" over that statement) How about in the US? quote: The point is we are making progress, you are not . You do things your way we will do things ours. Yikes, "myopic" definitely stays on the table. Gonna hafta stop talking to you - again.... Focus.

BamaD -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 7:26:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I would PREFER holding the parents accountable when children are left home, unattended, with a loaded gun in the house. That's it? Period? The end? As it seems to me, the examples clearly show that at least some young people of a certain age can be left alone with firearms present, perfectly safely, and to their benefit if untoward circumstances arise. Why do you PREFER to ignore evidence of that fact even when it's put right under your nose? K. One had no training, as admitted by the mother. The other, we have no clue what training, if any, he had. I PREFER for parents to actually have to accept responsibility for their own actions. This kid will have to go through years of therapy. Even adults get skattered after shooting someone, and we expect a kid to be able to handle that? My point is that this never should have happened in the first place. We wouldnt be having this discussion if the 14 year old didnt have access to a gun and was murdered. I am thankful he wasnt. I have no issues with him knowing how to defend himself. I resent that any kid that age is placed into that position to begin with. And yet everyone wants to applaud the fact that a kid had to shoot someone trying to break into his home when, had he been with his father, either his father would have shot the man or this situation never would have come up. Better the 14 year old than nobody. Better the 14 year old have to shoot at someone that no one shoot at someone. Makes your parenting post that much clearer [;)] No better that the 14 year old was able to protect himself than nobody to protect him and you are too smart not to know that is what I meant.

BamaD -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 7:30:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Not myopic at all. If we use fifty year then we have had as much sucess as Australia. I s'pose it's "success" when you conveniently ignore your murder rate is over 4 times ours.... [:-] Gonna hang on to that "myopic" assertion awhile longer. quote: I chose 20 years because that is the time period when your deaconian gun control was supposed to have done so much it did virtually nothing. If you mean the gun laws because of the Port Arthur spree killing, pretty sure there hasn't been a spree killing here since. (as I hold my breath and "touch wood" over that statement) How about in the US? quote: The point is we are making progress, you are not . You do things your way we will do things ours. Yikes, "myopic" definitely stays on the table. Gonna hafta stop talking to you - again.... Focus. You are the one being myopic Your muder rate has been unaffected by the draconian laws I don't remember saying that 4.7 is utopic but we are making progress you are not. Promise?

tazzygirl -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 7:34:54 AM)
quote: No better that the 14 year old was able to protect himself than nobody to protect him and you are too smart not to know that is what I meant. I prefer not to assume what you mean... because you so often change your story. However, had the child not been left home alone, none of this would matter.

BamaD -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 7:49:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: No better that the 14 year old was able to protect himself than nobody to protect him and you are too smart not to know that is what I meant. I prefer not to assume what you mean... because you so often change your story. However, had the child not been left home alone, none of this would matter. But you did make an assumtion about what I meant otherwise you couldn't have respondedand, and as usual you went to the worst interpitation of my meanig. And if the thug had minded his own business it wouldn;t either. Sometimes you have to leave a kid for example I was a single parent and had to work at night, and no there was no one my kid could stay with for the year and a half I had the job. By the time he got out of school I would have had time to take him drop him off and get to work. It was leave him alone or not feed him.

tazzygirl -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 7:58:14 AM)
I based my response on a number of your posts here. [:D] quote: Sometimes you have to leave a kid for example I was a single parent and had to work at night, and no there was no one my kid could stay with for the year and a half I had the job. By the time he got out of school I would have had time to take him drop him off and get to work. It was leave him alone or not feed him. I was a single parent, and what you just said is a cop out. I worked rotating shifts. I made plans with other parents for sleep overs. When they worked nights, their kids stayed at my place. There is always a way.

BamaD -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:01:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I based my response on a number of your posts here. [:D] quote: Sometimes you have to leave a kid for example I was a single parent and had to work at night, and no there was no one my kid could stay with for the year and a half I had the job. By the time he got out of school I would have had time to take him drop him off and get to work. It was leave him alone or not feed him. I was a single parent, and what you just said is a cop out. I worked rotating shifts. I made plans with other parents for sleep overs. When they worked nights, their kids stayed at my place. There is always a way. I worked nights and weekends my freinds had no children it would have been every day with no trade offs. Are we moving to personal attacks or do you want to get back to the subject.

tazzygirl -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:06:24 AM)
quote: I worked nights and weekends my freinds had no children it would have been every day with no trade offs. Are we moving to personall attacks or do you want to get back to the subject. There was no personal attack. And you brought up the topic for discussion, not me. [:D]

BamaD -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:12:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I worked nights and weekends my freinds had no children it would have been every day with no trade offs. Are we moving to personall attacks or do you want to get back to the subject. There was no personal attack. And you brought up the topic for discussion, not me. [:D] You were not in my situation, just because you had the support to take care of your kid and I didn't doesn't mean I am coping out. For example you on a swing could trade off I on straight nights could not even if I had the support that you were fortunate to have.

tazzygirl -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:15:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I worked nights and weekends my freinds had no children it would have been every day with no trade offs. Are we moving to personall attacks or do you want to get back to the subject. There was no personal attack. And you brought up the topic for discussion, not me. [:D] You were not in my situation, just because you had the support to take care of your kid and I didn't doesn't mean I am coping out. For example you on a swing could trade off I on straight nights could not even if I had the support that you were fortunate to have. I found that support. I made friends who could help me while I helped them. I cultivated that support with only my son's safety in mind. [;)]

BamaD -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:31:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I worked nights and weekends my freinds had no children it would have been every day with no trade offs. Are we moving to personall attacks or do you want to get back to the subject. There was no personal attack. And you brought up the topic for discussion, not me. [:D] You were not in my situation, just because you had the support to take care of your kid and I didn't doesn't mean I am coping out. For example you on a swing could trade off I on straight nights could not even if I had the support that you were fortunate to have. I found that support. I made friends who could help me while I helped them. I cultivated that support with only my son's safety in mind. [;)] I'm glad you had help but that does not , no matter what you want to believe made me a bad parent, the only help I had was a german shepard. The freinds I had needed help themselves and couldn't help me, not complaining just the way it was. The fact remains that there are times when kids have to be left alone, the parents are not neglecting them it just happens. A kid should not have to defend themselves against an intruder, but neither should their parents.

tazzygirl -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:33:08 AM)
quote: I'm glad you had help but that does not , no matter what you want to believe made me a bad parent, the only help I had was a german shepard. The freinds I had needed help themselves and couldn't help me, not complaining just the way it was. Whoa... no where did I say you were a "bad parent" If you felt that I implied you were, thats on you.

FunCouple5280 -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:37:34 AM)
Just a side bar, not an argument. You should read the book Freakonomics.... The author shows a very interesting statistical coincidence between the legalization of abortion and crime in the US.

BamaD -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:39:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I'm glad you had help but that does not , no matter what you want to believe made me a bad parent, the only help I had was a german shepard. The freinds I had needed help themselves and couldn't help me, not complaining just the way it was. Whoa... no where did I say you were a "bad parent" If you felt that I implied you were, thats on you. You said that copped out and left my kid alone and didn;t need too, partof your contrast was that you didn't do that because your son's safety was so important to you and you have consitantly stated that people who leave their kids alone are endangering them the parents being nearly as responsible for any danger the kids are in as an intruder. What does that add up to?

tazzygirl -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:42:42 AM)
I still dont think you needed too.

BamaD -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:49:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280 Just a side bar, not an argument. You should read the book Freakonomics.... The author shows a very interesting statistical coincidence between the legalization of abortion and crime in the US. His argument is seriously flawed. Before the major crime jump it was predicted as well as the following drop in crime. The basis for the accurate prediction was demographics, The baby boomers reached the violence prone ages crime spiked and as we aged the crime rate has dropped. This is more credible because it was made before the fact. The biggest flaw in Feakonomics is that it does not explain the major crime spike in the seventies which the demographics model does. Unfortunatly I read this 40-45 years ago so I do not remember the name of the article and do not have a link, there being no internet at the time. That said it is an interesting theory but it smacks of eugenics. www.orthocuban.com/2011/09/baby-boomers-and-the-crime-rate This is the best link I can find, it is not the original article but it is conformation

BamaD -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:50:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I still dont think you needed too. You are intitled to your opinion.

tazzygirl -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 8:51:45 AM)
Yes, I am. Thank you for finally admitting that. [:D]

FunCouple5280 -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 9:01:15 AM)
I don't think he seriously believed it all to be true. Much of the book pointed interesting statistical patterns. I wasn't making the assertion that it was accurate, just an interesting observation when viewed in a vacuum from other data. Yes it does smack of eugenics considering the elevated abortion rates within various US communities.

BamaD -> RE: gun control and tragedies (3/14/2013 9:01:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Yes, I am. Thank you for finally admitting that. [:D] Never denied it and your right to an opinion doesn't mean you are right just that you can believe whatever you want to.

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