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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 3:47:30 AM   
tazzygirl


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Then, as now, men enjoyed more than one at a time. The sight of two women making out was just as hot then. Of course they didnt want to upset that apple cart.

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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 8:19:12 AM   
cordeliasub


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Status: offline 		I think some of the....closed minded "it's WRONG!!!" thinking really is borne of ignorance. Before my brother came out, my parents were in vehement denial, as if it would be the worst discovery they could make about their son. They are not and were not hateful people; they just had been taught what they had been taught, and they had never really looked at the issue up close and personal. When my brother did come out - because his partner died and he needed the support of his family - sudden;y being gay wasn't some abstract terrible sin.....it was a very real and very wonderful young man who had just lost the love of his life. I had always worried about my dad especially....but their hearts and minds changed when they finally saw the issue from a real rather than a "pontificating from the pulpit" perspective. Would it have been better if they had always been so open? Probably. But....they are now, and I think our family is better for it.

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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 8:23:25 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The sight of two women making out was just as hot then.


You think? I don't know . . . all those bloomers and other bits of underwear. And they'd have smelled more. Clothes were much more difficult to wash. And they didn't use deodorant in those days, you know. Still, I'd have probably been able to make do. :-)

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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 8:33:05 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		Marriage is a civil contract. Period
A contract is an agreement between 2 or more consenting adults who are of sound mind.
Churches have no business defining who may or may not enter into a contract except to their own members.

To those who think "God" has anything to do with marriage, I have two questions.
If it is not a civil contract, why does it NOT require a clergyman? A justice of peace and/or notary can perform marriage ceremonies in most locations.
If it is NOT a civil contract and is indeed some religious thing why does it require a judge, not a clergyman, to dissolve one?

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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 9:03:06 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 9:06:35 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		HEYYYYYYYYYYYY Leave my air conditioning alone!

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 9:09:51 AM   
JeffBC


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Status: offline 		I don't know Lucy. I think that's all way too complicated for the sort of people we're talking about. I think in their brains it reduces down to...

1 REASON TO OPPOSE MARRIAGE EQUALITY
==============================
1. Because gays are bad, mmmkay?

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 9:29:25 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

HEYYYYYYYYYYYY Leave my air conditioning alone!




LOL...Created by satan imself they woz.... dang new fangled machines


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I don't know Lucy. I think that's all way too complicated for the sort of people we're talking about. I think in their brains it reduces down to...

1 REASON TO OPPOSE MARRIAGE EQUALITY
==============================
1. Because gays are bad, mmmkay?

you do have a point there Jeff:)
reduced brain matter...

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 9:45:16 AM   
kdsub


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I think you are close to the truth...many straight people don't go around thinking of gay marriage. When they do the reaction is mostly queasiness at the thought because it is so different from their natural response and up bringing. Then without thinking it through they are likely to agree with the no gay marriage crowd.

When they are forced by circumstance to think it through they often change their minds.

Changing minds is what is needed...not inflammatory rhetoric.

Butch

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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 9:45:26 AM   
UnholyBear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

As a side note I am trying to give the opposing view held by many well meaning Americans...not fanatics that only follow political party lines. We get enough of them on this site and given time they will post here on this thread.

What I am saying is not popular here... or even right, or at least not right according to most of us posting here, but it does represent the real force against this basic human right...even if misguided.

Butch



As another openly gay male, I'd like to point out a few views from my side.

I have read all you posted and what others have posted yet the one fact which seems to be overlooked is the fundamental fact that we are all equal as human beings and should be treated as thus. As for the fight for the the right to marry, keep in m ind that it is the RIGHT we are fighting for even if we choose not to marry the person we love. I also want to point out that we are ALL equal under the eyes of GOD, yet condemning people like myself and others who fall under the LGBT umbrella does go against that.

You made this statement: " Strange you would say that considering the majority of our laws are based on just that....Religious beliefs" yet a large majority of Americans are vehemently against giving us Gays a right to have our unions or marriage to a person we choose to spend our life with and have it formally recognized is a flagrant contradiction. Understand that as a gay male, I am NOT looking to be given special rights but rights which every heterosexually person is automatically granted - nothing more. Don't I have the right to have my partner be recognized as legitimate? Don't I also deserve to live a life with the same rights as my parents have? I am fortunate to be a citizen of Canada where our government formally recognizes that I can marry the man I choose to spend my life with and know that we have the same legal rights protected under the law. We do not want to be treated any different or special. We want to treated on an equal basis like everyone else and not as a non entity.

What stands out in my mind when someone decides to quote bible interpretations against homosexuals is the fact that too often it is twisted into something that is incorrect. We are called abominations yet we are the product of our parents love, so wouldn't that also mean that our parents are also abominations for bringing us into the world? So please tell me how someone like me who is a product of love be an abomination?

Thing is this is a very slippery slope to walk when we as a people continue to deny rights to a group of people which many don't understand or accept. I have been fighting this fight most of my adult life and I had hoped that in this day and age I didn't but obviously it continues. Yes I am an advocate for gay rights yet I am also an advocate for equal rights. kdsub, I know you are probably pointing out other views yet I still have to say in my defense and I quote from the same book that is always used against my kind:

*Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.*

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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 10:01:01 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 10:07:30 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I think it's especially interesting that he was one of the co sponsors of the DOMA. Now he doesn't think it was such a good idea..

LP said the term "chicken shit" came to mind....I'm thinking more along the line of hypocrite .

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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 10:08:17 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Changing minds is what is needed...not inflammatory rhetoric.

That is absolutely true and it's true in way more significant areas than this. And for the record, I didn't intend for Lucy's interpretation of "stupid". I meant it as a factual statement. The premise to all of their thinking is that "gay = sin" or "gay = icky". In the end that's why I don't think minds are going to change. I think they are going to die out.


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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 10:10:25 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Better late than never.... And whatever the reason for the change of heart is irrelavent, we shouldn't scare him back to his old opinions. Let the theocrats demonstrate why he should have never sided with them in the first place.

No,I don't think "better late than never" applies.
Think about all of the people stigmatized,scarred and marginalized by DOMA for all of these years.
How does his "late in the game" conversion remove this injustice ?

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 10:15:12 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Shame they only reverse their stance when it happens in their own family.
I had the same, exact thought, tazzy. I'm glad he's changing his stance, but the term "chicken shit" comes to mind. If it hadn't been for his son's sexual orientation, he'd probably have kept his prior stance.




I wonder if his son coming out was the "justification" he needed to move away from what he thought was necessary to get elected. It hardly makes him a moral giant.

I don't feel Obama had a change of heart when he announced he had reconsidered and changed his mind. I think Biden floated the balloon, they tested the wind and he felt it was safe to announce his "change of heart".

ETA: Please disregard. See below.


< Message edited by hlen5 -- 3/16/2013 10:31:39 AM >

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RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 10:31:14 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I think it's especially interesting that he was one of the co sponsors of the DOMA. Now he doesn't think it was such a good idea..

LP said the term "chicken shit" came to mind....I'm thinking more along the line of hypocrite .



I didn't realize he was a co sponsor of DOMA. Changing my vote to hypocrite.

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 10:37:25 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

I think they are going to die out.


Not sure what you mean here...but... thinking dislike of homosexuality is a generational thing is dangerous and wrong. Each new generation has had and will have more than its share of dislike and distaste of homosexuality.

It will always be an ongoing fight.

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 10:40:10 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Changing minds is what is needed...not inflammatory rhetoric.

That is absolutely true and it's true in way more significant areas than this. And for the record, I didn't intend for Lucy's interpretation of "stupid". I meant it as a factual statement. The premise to all of their thinking is that "gay = sin" or "gay = icky". In the end that's why I don't think minds are going to change. I think they are going to die out.


I think you mistake what I said, as being"stupid" ...rather more ignorance and fear...
I didnt say...stupid

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 10:41:49 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

I apologize for repeating myself, but Butch's post made me realize that this needs to be said again.


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

What is to be gained by allowing homosexual marriage?


In a word, dignity.*

Some of you have heard this story before, and I apologize for repeating myself. But it's the best answer I know to this question.

In 2006, my Aunt Brenda--witty, wise, wonderful, and amazingly kind to yours truly during some rough patches--died in upstate New York (which had not yet achieved marriage equality). Seconds after she flatlined, a doctor burst into the room, demanding to speak to the next of kin. Brenda's beloved partner, Melanie, who had seen Brenda through an agonizing decline at the hands of a brutal affliction called multiple system atrophy, introduced herself and explained that she held Brenda's power of attorney.

"That expired when she did," the doctor replied. "I need to talk to a member of the family."

I invite any of our eloquent posters on this issue to argue that that would have happened to a legal spouse.

And that's what "homosexual marriage" is all about, Charlie Brown. Being recognized, after years of loving and faithful union and in the most heartbreaking moment of one's life, as "a member of the family."

Edited for typo, alas.



* This one-word answer does not, of course, include the more than a thousand marriage-related rights and privileges conferred by U.S. law.


Needs to be said again....and again....and again
Thanks for posting it(and re-posting it....lol) and sharing it with us

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Gay Marriage is WRONG - 3/16/2013 11:32:10 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
you do have a point there Jeff:)
reduced brain matter...

I didnt say...stupid

While my interpretation may have been wrong I think it was certainly reasonable. "reduced brain matter" means what exactly? (ignoring, of course, the fact that amount of brain matter means little when we're looking at intelligence). So were you simply discussing cranial capacity issues as a total non-sequitur?


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Profile   Post #: 120
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