Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 3:08:05 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Look and see what the minimum wage is actually worth


Sad when people are making less today than they made in 1956.

But unsurprising. Not all of the taxes the top income bracket were paying back then were going into pork barrels, re-election campaigns and corporate welfare payments: some of it was actually propping up the economy.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 3:09:16 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Well, let's see.....your mother is making $15.50. Is she worth that?

Listen, I would support high school kids continuing to make $7.25 an hour while they were attending school, because they do live with their parents and don't have expenses. But I also know a decent amount of people who are doing essentially "unskilled" labor, such as cashiers, dishwashers and the like who are trying to support themselves and often their families on those kinds of salaries and it just isn't possible.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 3:17:12 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
If we could count on employers to pay a decent living wage, we wouldn't need a minimum wage. However, we can't count on employers to do that, so we have a minimum wage.
I do believe the BLS is wrong, and I also know that many, many minimum wage, just above, or tipped employees are working full time, so I don't really think it adds up to the amount they said.


OMG, how many people do you know?!? I mean, we have 134M people working in the US. Just pulling numbers off the top of my head, from memory, it's somewhere around 55% of those are getting paid hourly, rather than salary. So, the 4.7% of hourly paid is roughly 3% of all workers, which is still 10M people? Now, how many people do you know, again?

quote:

Statistics are really not much more than a way for someone to spin their opinion to look like it means something. For the data you quoted, I would want to know what the total population they based it on, how many of that population didn't work by choice (stay at home parents), how many were disabled and couldn't work, how many were looking for jobs, and how many were minors, as well as what you say about first and second jobs. I truly believe that would make the data much different.


I believe my post mentioned that of all the hourly-paid workers making at or below minimum wage, 24% were 16-19 years old. Go to the BLS website and search for minimum wage. That's where I got it all from.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 3:23:32 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Well, let's see.....your mother is making $15.50. Is she worth that?

Listen, I would support high school kids continuing to make $7.25 an hour while they were attending school, because they do live with their parents and don't have expenses. But I also know a decent amount of people who are doing essentially "unskilled" labor, such as cashiers, dishwashers and the like who are trying to support themselves and often their families on those kinds of salaries and it just isn't possible.



You are missing my point. She is worth that, considering they pay her that, and she doesn't quit or feel the need to participate in a strike or some other act. When I graduated, my first job was in research. I made 12.50/hr equivalent as a degreed engineer!!!!!! That's because the job market was shitty that year for starting engineers, and I was working for the fart face university under a grant. Now living in Boston that was worse than a poverty wage. I had to work 30hs a week at Home Depot @13hr as a second job to make ends meet. Now that sucked, but after a year, I was able to get a new job and move back to CO. You have to do what you have to do. I am a better person for it.

Sure people get paid shit. But you have to strive for more in life now and then. If flipping burgers paid a living wage, why learn a trade like auto mechanic, which pays way better, or strive for a promotion.

But more to my point. If 8 isn't nearly enough, then maybe is $20. That's only 800/week before taxes. In most places, that could be considered a living wage. But, that makes things like self checkout kiosks more attractive to the company. If they put 8 of those in, you go from $8/hr to sitting on the curb making $0/hr, see the point?

Unskilled labor has never, nor will ever pay a living wage. It is stepping stone in the job world. When I made minimum wage, I was in high school working for a landscaper during the summers. I never worked so fucking hard in my life or was more miserable. Had I not done it, I may have just smoked pot and acted all entitled through college. I was greatful for that life lesson.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 3:33:49 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
Wally world helps keep the cost of certain goods affordable.

This, I believe, is a wildly inaccurate statement. The word "affordable" implies some comparison between disposable income and cost. By definition, Walmart makes everything unaffordable since anyone working for them is working in the red (eg: zero disposable income and requiring govt subsidy). So no, they do not keep things affordable. They enforce a race to the bottom where nothing is affordable.

To the rest of your post, I'm a huge believer in some sort of tiered regulation system. Things like minimum wage & healthcare should be baseline across the board if for no other reason than wanting to allow "free market forces" to work properly. Beyond that, a business of 10 people just can't even begin to cause the kind of damage that BP Oil can so I see no need to regulate it to the same level and lots of reasons to want to nurture it's growth with minimal regulations. So you don't need to sell me on reduced regulation for small business. I'm right there with you.

In fact, we sort of have the opposite right now (as you suggest). The Walmarts, Disney's, etc. of the world run virtually unregulated because they can afford the lawyers and lobbyists to work around the rules or simply change them. Joe's shoe store, on the other hand, cannot do the same.

Insofar as "big business" having redeeming features, I'm sure it does. But more and more I look at the harm "big" does and I see the wisdom in small and local whether it is business or government. Humans in large groups just plain don't behave well.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 3:47:43 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC


This, I believe, is a wildly inaccurate statement. The word "affordable" implies some comparison between disposable income and cost. By definition, Walmart makes everything unaffordable since anyone working for them is working in the red (eg: zero disposable income and requiring govt subsidy). So no, they do not keep things affordable. They enforce a race to the bottom where nothing is affordable.




Since we agree on everything else, let's focus. First, the race to the bottom is crap. If you work as a basic a wally world employee, you shouldn't consider it a career. I don't understand this overwhelming idea that anyone working the floor of a retail joint should be making career wages. It is a job not a career. You work it a couple of years out of your life and either get promoted or move on to a trade or something.

Now I disagree with wally world exploiting the US's asinine trade policies that permit them to move entire factories to china and rape the locals at 3$ a day. But, that is the government's fault for allowing such a loophole. As far as buying in massive quantities and maintaining an extremely low overhead model to keep costs down, I have nothing wrong with that. That is just plain smart business.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 3:59:24 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
Since we agree on everything else, let's focus.
*laughs* Good idea :)

First, the race to the bottom is crap. If you work as a basic a wally world employee, you shouldn't consider it a career. I don't understand this overwhelming idea that anyone working the floor of a retail joint should be making career wages. It is a job not a career. You work it a couple of years out of your life and either get promoted or move on to a trade or something.
That all sounds so nice until you realize that the entire economy is moving to the wally world model. So this "Trade" that you want them to get. Who's going to be paying them? That, in essence is why our economy continues to tumble down the toilet. Nobody has any money so nobody can buy anything. In my opinion, the flaw in your thinking is that it presumes a model where upward mobility is a fact of life and that just isn't so in the US anymore. It presumes a model where this is a middle class and that's rapidly getting to be untrue. It presumes a ton of things which just plain aren't reality.

But yeah... in a healthy economy I'd be fine with entry level jobs. Even then I'd want them to pay enough that the I wasn't fucking subsidizing their payroll via various forms of welfare.

I don't really care how you want to accomplish it but somehow we're going to need to flatten out the wealth distribution or this nation is doomed. If it isn't minimum wage (along with a handful of other things) then what?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 4:06:33 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		Ok, if no one can buy anything....When does wally-world go out of business?

Minimum wage hurts the small businesses the worst. They run such a small apple cart, theirs is the easiest to tip over. It is another reg they have to follow.

How do you flatten out wealth? Stop taxing the middle class and giving to the rich. That is essentially what is happening. The greater the middle class, the better the chance for the poor.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 4:08:56 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

First, the race to the bottom is crap. If you work as a basic a wally world employee, you shouldn't consider it a career. I don't understand this overwhelming idea that anyone working the floor of a retail joint should be making career wages. It is a job not a career. You work it a couple of years out of your life and either get promoted or move on to a trade or something.


And you are assuming everyone is able to move upwards or onwards.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 4:11:35 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

First, the race to the bottom is crap. If you work as a basic a wally world employee, you shouldn't consider it a career. I don't understand this overwhelming idea that anyone working the floor of a retail joint should be making career wages. It is a job not a career. You work it a couple of years out of your life and either get promoted or move on to a trade or something.


And you are assuming everyone is able to move upwards or onwards.



If you suck at life, I don't think anyone should rescue you. If you are retarded, then you should be subsidized. I have no issue with that. But, i shouldn't have subsidize or encourage or mandate a total lack of ambition or a pot habit gone into your 30s

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 4:23:58 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		First, I hate that fucking word...

Second, not everyone can be a brain surgeon

Third, you are assuming people have those jobs because they have no desire for anything better. Try getting an educational loan to go to med school with parents who have no credit and a job at wally world.

Fourth, its all great and fine to spout what you want and dont want to do for others while you dont have to worry about paying either the power bill or the rent this week.

It becomes a vicious circle.

Today the Census Bureau released its analysis of U.S. poverty in 2011, and the official poverty rate essentially held at 15 percent, meaning that 46.2 million people live below the poverty line.

Do we have 46.2 million jobs waiting for people to go to work?

Do we have 30 million?

Oops.. wait.. we have a U6 unemployment rate of a lil over 14.

Oh yeah, people are just having a good time with their habits and laziness and not wanting anything better and all those high paying jobs are going unfilled... right?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 4:27:03 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
Ok, if no one can buy anything....When does wally-world go out of business?

I dunno... but when they do the Walton family will be high on the hog while a whole lot of other people go on welfare.

quote:

Minimum wage hurts the small businesses the worst. They run such a small apple cart, theirs is the easiest to tip over. It is another reg they have to follow.

I understand your argument and if I believed it I'd agree with you. But I happen to live in a country where minimum wage is a lot higher and small business seems to do just fine except for the predations of big business. But McDonald's still seems to sell hamburgers. The local drycleaner still cleans clothes, etc. My personal guess is that what happens is that EVERYONE has more money so the increased cost of the burgers and dry cleaning is more than made up for by the increased wages. What makes an economy go round is money in motion.

quote:

How do you flatten out wealth? Stop taxing the middle class and giving to the rich. That is essentially what is happening. The greater the middle class, the better the chance for the poor.

Well, i agree that we should stop giving welfare to the wealthy. But that still doesn't describe how you plan on stopping the powerful (capital) from stepping on the weak (the labor). If we got rid of minimum wage entirely what do you think would happen in the US?


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 4:56:52 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I believe my post mentioned that of all the hourly-paid workers making at or below minimum wage, 24% were 16-19 years old. Go to the BLS website and search for minimum wage. That's where I got it all from.

Sooooo . . . 76% were 20 years or older. Kinda weakens your whole argument, don't it? I think so.

Here is an important point to consider in this discussion. We are talking about a MINIMUM wage. A wage under which it is illegal to engage labor. The ME is quite similar to child labor laws which set a MINIMUM age under which it is illegal to engage labor. When there were no child labor laws businesses large and small hired 8 and 10 year olds to work the most tedious and arduous jobs.

We need these laws to prevent EXPLOITATION of labor plain and simple because Management at all levels from huge banks to mom & pop corner stores have shown in history they cannot be trusted. As I have said it is an issue of social justice more than economics. Kid coal miners pictured below.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by vincentML -- 3/21/2013 5:25:36 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 5:49:34 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I believe my post mentioned that of all the hourly-paid workers making at or below minimum wage, 24% were 16-19 years old. Go to the BLS website and search for minimum wage. That's where I got it all from.


And mine said at least 14% of ALL workers are making below poverty.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 6:03:41 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
Ok, if no one can buy anything....When does wally-world go out of business?

I dunno... but when they do the Walton family will be high on the hog while a whole lot of other people go on welfare.

quote:

Minimum wage hurts the small businesses the worst. They run such a small apple cart, theirs is the easiest to tip over. It is another reg they have to follow.

I understand your argument and if I believed it I'd agree with you. But I happen to live in a country where minimum wage is a lot higher and small business seems to do just fine except for the predations of big business. But McDonald's still seems to sell hamburgers. The local drycleaner still cleans clothes, etc. My personal guess is that what happens is that EVERYONE has more money so the increased cost of the burgers and dry cleaning is more than made up for by the increased wages. What makes an economy go round is money in motion.

quote:

How do you flatten out wealth? Stop taxing the middle class and giving to the rich. That is essentially what is happening. The greater the middle class, the better the chance for the poor.

Well, i agree that we should stop giving welfare to the wealthy. But that still doesn't describe how you plan on stopping the powerful (capital) from stepping on the weak (the labor). If we got rid of minimum wage entirely what do you think would happen in the US?


Well, recently people were had by the powerful. Someone who has 50k in savings shouldn't be investing it in the insane derivatives markets. Now I know people didn't do it directly but they trusted a bunch of investment monkeys to do it and got screwed when their IRA/Pensions went up in smoke. Second, if you don't have a lot of money you shouldn't borrow like the rich guys. We were suckered by low interest rates and 125% on the value of our home. The government never should have allowed that kind of predatory lending.

I am not saying we get rid of it. But it is hardly a panacea for the poor, nor does it really make a huge impact. It should stay low as a back stop for out right exploitation of the desperate.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 6:07:36 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		What does the unemployment rate have to do with the minimum wage? Oh yeah, bumpkins... Raise the min-wage and not one extra person will get a job as a result.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 6:26:19 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		What does a high unemployment have to do with those moving up the ladder? Everything. There IS no ladder.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 6:28:04 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

If you work as a basic a wally world employee, you shouldn't consider it a career.


I disagree. Though I don't work in retail, I know people who do and who happen to love it. They happen to be very good at what they do and have considered it their careers for many years. They are salesmen/women. Some of them have college degrees. Some of them have high school diplomas. Some are store managers. Some are simply cashiers. Most of them are around my age. They work for companies like Verizon, Target, Sears and Buy Backs.


(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 6:36:04 PM   
TricklessMagic


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/14/2009
Status: offline 		We have a glut of unskilled labor in today's job market, they are rampantly competing for these lower paid jobs. I actually have employees and it is a pain in the ass. I bear all the risk of investment. If I fail I lose everything. If they fail they go get another job. Now I pay considerably more than minimum wage because they are somewhat skilled and the persons I can get at minimum wage I wouldn't trust to perform up to the necessary skill level. Routinely they complain about making less now working for me than several years ago, all the while failing to mention they were each unemployed for a year or more before I hired them. I didn't fire them from those supposedly higher paying jobs but I know why. Their employers could hire similarly skilled employees at cheaper wages and fired them soon as they gave them an excuse. The job market is one of supply and demand. The demand for employees is down because job creators have little faith in our government not to screw them so rather than jump out there and gamble their resources, they'll hold out as long as possible unless they absolutely have to invest in labor to avoid losing market share or avoid under-utilization of assets which is what we are starting to see in the job market. So there is some minor job growth but nowhere what it could be. Also we have a workforce that is largely unskilled and unwilling to adapt to the needs of regional employment or industry specific employment. Business degrees are worthless but folks still go for them and then bitch when they can't find a job.

Raising minimum wage will mean businesses deciding whether or not they need a certain number of employees, substituting staff with self-checkout lines, investing more in automation if possible, cutting benefits where they can be cut, cutting hours where they can be cut, and terminating higher paid employees where they can be terminated. Such is life. You can stay where you are or you can try for more. If you are working less than sixty hours a week and don't have kids, you only have yourself to blame for why you are stuck at where you are stuck at. I've met people who refuse to do anything and everything possible to get ahead claiming moral qualms or saying it would exhaust them. Then I laugh and remember my scars and seventy to eighty hour work weeks. I remember doing yard work for my neighbors and painting their houses for extra money to save up for anything and everything. I remember working for half of what the competition was charging when I was starting my carpet cleaning business. I remember taking any and every job I could get while going to college full time and running my little business doing roofing in the summer, taking moving gigs off of craigslist and pet sitting. The constant noise of a pressure washer racking my ear drums (even with ear muffs) as I cleaned driveways and roofs. But I saved my money and grew my carpet cleaning business and used that money to fund my firm.

Forty hour work weeks will rarely get you anywhere. It just means your one of the crowd, expendable and replaceable. If you aren't trying to improve your skills and abilities, you are again expendable and replaceable. Life does not deliver entitlement, it presents opportunity, the best of us seize them, the luckiest of us get them, and even fewer get to enjoy them.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 7:10:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Then I laugh and remember my scars and seventy to eighty hour work weeks. I remember doing yard work for my neighbors and painting their houses for extra money to save up for anything and everything. I remember working for half of what the competition was charging when I was starting my carpet cleaning business. I remember taking any and every job I could get while going to college full time and running my little business doing roofing in the summer, taking moving gigs off of craigslist and pet sitting. The constant noise of a pressure washer racking my ear drums (even with ear muffs) as I cleaned driveways and roofs. But I saved my money and grew my carpet cleaning business and used that money to fund my firm.


Such fond memories.. for a 27 year old. Try to do it now. I grew up the same way, working any and every job. My brothers all are into construction. My baby brother runs his own siding business. My oldeest brother has his own garage.

And they are both hurting. Wasnt all that long ago we had an unemployment rate of 5%. Jobs were easy to get, everyone was hiring. It doubled. No jobs.

So, yes, it IS possible. But not in this market.

Guess what raising the minimum wage will do?

It can actually shrink the job market. And puts more money into the economy.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TricklessMagic)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109