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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 7:57:28 PM   
FrostedFlake


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The supply and demand argument is misplaced. People are not widgets. Labor laws were not written out of the goodness of anyones heart, or because of generosity. We fought for those laws. Some of us died for them.

Addie Card, age 12, North Pownal Cotton Mill in Vermont, 1910

The photos of Lewis Hine helped to bring the point home to those insulated from reality by wealth. They also inspired some of the finest folks I know to record some tunes.

Here is one. I hope you enjoy it.


Janet Bates and the Instruments of Change.

_____________________________

Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 8:08:42 PM   
TricklessMagic


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28 going on 29 Tazzy, I learned that work ethic from my parents who both did similar things and at one time were earning over 400k a year with their combined incomes (now they're down to like 170k). You say not in this market, huh because the seventies and eighties were that great. You can find jobs in this country but it means competing with migrant labor and illegal aliens. It means working hard. I represent illegal aliens in personal injury cases and refer them to worker's comp attorneys, and when they were healthy they earned over ten dollars an hour but they worked sixty to seventy dollars an hour. It means giving up alcohol and cigarettes, and recreational drugs plus over priced clothes. I can look in my closet and remember all the pairs of jeans, some suit pants, and some suit jackets I bought at Goodwill and Thrift stores but I watch relatively poor people still shop at the Mall for clothes, get their hair done, and go out clubbing twice a week, and then wonder why they don't have any money after only working maybe forty hours a week.

I know a nurse who did phone sex, cam girl, private dancer and maid/cleaning lady work till she saved up enough to go to nursing school and support herself for two years on top of it, when she got her first RN job she had over ten grand still in the bank and was still doing maid/cleaning lady work till she saved up four grand to make a down payment on a car. She's continued with school and makes more now then she did then. She still does phone sex for Christmas and vacation money. Oh and she had a two year old when she decided to buckle down.

I know men working close to eighty hours a week to save up for trucking school, welding school, or start their own businesses. One guy works at a Seven-Eleven, a BP, works as a Bar back, and cuts yards for ten dollars a yard per week. I pay him for my yard and got him four more to help him out. He works seven days a week to save up to start his own business one day. He's been saving up for a year and knows he needs to keep going for at least two more. That's how life is. When I need small tasks taken care of I give him a call. I paid him forty bucks to install my garage door opener. A handyman wanted a hundred and fifty bucks to do it. He spent three hours on it and got it to work right.
.
People want to take from job creators as though they are entitled. They want the reward without the risk and investment.

But Tazzy, tell me how it will shrink the job market and put more money into the economy, I'm willing to give it a read.

I'm curious how job creators are just going to suck on the lemon of government intervention and not look at how to squeeze even more profit out of the system. How the cost of goods isn't going to go up?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 9:02:34 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

28 going on 29 Tazzy, I learned that work ethic from my parents who both did similar things and at one time were earning over 400k a year with their combined incomes (now they're down to like 170k). You say not in this market, huh because the seventies and eighties were that great.


Compared to now they were pretty damn good.

http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate.jsp?fromYear=1970&toYear=2013

quote:

I represent illegal aliens in personal injury cases and refer them to worker's comp attorneys, and when they were healthy they earned over ten dollars an hour but they worked sixty to seventy dollars an hour.


Im assuming you meant 60 - 70 hours a week?

quote:

I can look in my closet and remember all the pairs of jeans, some suit pants, and some suit jackets I bought at Goodwill and Thrift stores but I watch relatively poor people still shop at the Mall for clothes, get their hair done, and go out clubbing twice a week, and then wonder why they don't have any money after only working maybe forty hours a week.


And I know the best places here in Pittsburgh can be the thrift stores...

quote:

I know a nurse who did phone sex, cam girl, private dancer and maid/cleaning lady work till she saved up enough to go to nursing school and support herself for two years on top of it, when she got her first RN job she had over ten grand still in the bank and was still doing maid/cleaning lady work till she saved up four grand to make a down payment on a car. She's continued with school and makes more now then she did then. She still does phone sex for Christmas and vacation money. Oh and she had a two year old when she decided to buckle down.


And you should also know that a moral turpitude clause can really hurt a nursing license. And you expect me to believe that she, with a 2 year old, went to school all on her own, no grants, no loans, no nothing, that she had to save up that money to go to nursing school because she couldnt get any help?

Bet you also believe I was born yesterday.

quote:

I know men working close to eighty hours a week to save up for trucking school, welding school, or start their own businesses. One guy works at a Seven-Eleven, a BP, works as a Bar back, and cuts yards for ten dollars a yard per week. I pay him for my yard and got him four more to help him out. He works seven days a week to save up to start his own business one day. He's been saving up for a year and knows he needs to keep going for at least two more. That's how life is. When I need small tasks taken care of I give him a call. I paid him forty bucks to install my garage door opener. A handyman wanted a hundred and fifty bucks to do it. He spent three hours on it and got it to work right.


Many people cant find one job ( U6 numbers) let alone two. This isnt new, it began in 2008. Most people have gone to taking care of their own yards and fix er up projects... women have started honey-do clubs so that their hubby's can trade off skills... one may do carpentry, another may be a lawyer... guy does cabinets in exchange for a will... or a plumber... or a mechanic. Those "honey do" jobs are quickly drying up, while Home Depot and Lowes are making a killing.

quote:

People want to take from job creators as though they are entitled. They want the reward without the risk and investment.


You think employees dont take chances? Open a small business.. no benefits... no guararentees the business will be open in a year... chances passing them by elsewhere while that put in time, effort and energy into helping the new business owner get that business off the ground. You think its just the owner who invests in his company?

quote:

But Tazzy, tell me how it will shrink the job market and put more money into the economy, I'm willing to give it a read.


Because more money in the paycheck means more can stay at home. Boggles the mind, I know.

quote:

I'm curious how job creators are just going to suck on the lemon of government intervention and not look at how to squeeze even more profit out of the system. How the cost of goods isn't going to go up?


Certain goods will go up, off set by an influx into the market. Bills will be paid on a more timely fashion, off setting the bankruptcy rates as well as the delinquency payments. Meaning the costs of some businesses will actually go down. Collections will decrease. Disposable income will rise.

Its not the rich that spends the money that keeps an economy going.


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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 9:19:18 PM   
tazzygirl


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To piggy back all that....

The World Health Organization estimates that stress costs American businesses $300 billion dollars a year.

Businesses must consider the costs of skyrocketing insurance rates and health care costs.

Stress was the most common cause of long-term sickness absence for both manual and non-manual employees in CIPD’s 2011 Absence Management Survey (a global HR development organization.)


http://www.forbes.com/sites/work-in-progress/2012/08/02/stress-at-work-is-bunk-for-business/

Causes of workplace injuries.

Fatigue
If someone is pushed -- or pushes herself -- beyond reasonable limits to stay on top of workload, the results often are physical and mental exhaustion. This translates to impaired judgment, slower reflexes in operating machinery or motor vehicles, a delayed response to emergency situations and inattention to details and instructions.

Stress
Job security, finances, health issues and anxiety about personal relationships all factor into the stress equation. When an employee's mind is too distracted by real or perceived threats, he is not only more likely to make mistakes that could cause injury but also invites an increased risk of a heart attack, stroke or hypertension.


http://smallbusiness.chron.com/top-10-causes-workplace-injuries-11298.html

Fatigue can also be caused by stress. More cost to you, the employer.

There are many hidden benefits to increasing the wages someone makes. You just have to care enough to look for them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 9:57:27 PM   
FunCouple5280


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Tazz I think we understand your logic.. more money for those to spend offset the hire prices right? Well show where that has actually happened.... Periodically, the minimum wage has increased been increased through history. It just hasn't had the effect you claim it will. Usually, the number of Americans making minimum wage drops after an increase as businesses scale back on those positions (how many restroom attendants have you seen lately?)

The minimum wage has at best mirrored inflation meaning a net sum gain of 0 for everyone. Currently you can blame much of the multiple job takers on the affordable care act. Since many employers are now faced with providing health insurance which is far more costly than it did before to full time employees, they chopping the number of full time positions in favor of part time positions. At times the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

No business is in business to give people jobs. Labor is overhead, plain and simple. Artificially increase that cost and they will cut back on it, or find ways around it.

The best way to increase wages is have employers fight over a limited labor pool.

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 10:25:23 PM   
FrostedFlake


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quote:

FunCouple
(how many restroom attendants have you seen lately?)

I have never seen one. But you have. This says a lot about you.

quote:

The minimum wage has at best mirrored inflation meaning a net sum gain of 0 for everyone.


In fact, things were steadily improving until Nixon went to China, and soon our jobs did too.

quote:

The best way to increase wages is have employers fight over a limited labor pool.

Where does one GET this limited labor pool? Are you proposing we Nuke China?

I am not arguing. I'm pointing at your argument and rolling my eyes.

_____________________________

Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 10:38:17 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Tazz I think we understand your logic.. more money for those to spend offset the hire prices right? Well show where that has actually happened.... Periodically, the minimum wage has increased been increased through history. It just hasn't had the effect you claim it will. Usually, the number of Americans making minimum wage drops after an increase as businesses scale back on those positions (how many restroom attendants have you seen lately?)


It hasnt had that effect because we keep tossing pennies at the problem. Pennies wont cut it.

quote:

The minimum wage has at best mirrored inflation meaning a net sum gain of 0 for everyone.


Mirrored inflation?

The minimum wage was re-established in the United States in 1938 once again at $0.25 per hour

The minimum wage had its highest purchasing value ever in 1968, when it was $1.60 per hour ($10.64 in 2012 dollars)

From January 1981 to April 1990, the minimum wage was frozen at $3.35 per hour, then a record-setting wage freeze.

From September 1, 1997 through July 23, 2007, the federal minimum wage remained constant at $5.15 per hour, breaking the old record.

The minimum wage fell about 29% in real terms between 1979 and 2003.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States

$1 worth of 1981 dollars is now worth $2.53
$1 worth of 1990 dollars is now worth $1.75


Sure didnt keep up with inflation there.

$1 worth of 1997 dollars is now worth $1.43
$1 worth of 2007 dollars is now worth $1.11


http://www.davemanuel.com/inflation-calculator.php

Didnt keep up then either.

In fact, earners are losing money.

quote:

Currently you can blame much of the multiple job takers on the affordable care act. Since many employers are now faced with providing health insurance which is far more costly than it did before to full time employees, they chopping the number of full time positions in favor of part time positions. At times the road to hell is paved with good intentions.


Yes, we know, 14 cents a pizza.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 10:42:55 PM   
FunCouple5280


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How was the quality of life in the 70s compared to today? Or fifteen years ago?

Really? The 90s had low unemployment, and we weren't trading with China? Hmmm doesn't add up. Maybe we should start a trade war with China or make the American worker even more expensive.... That will bring the jobs back!!!! Right.......

Right now it is massive uncertainty that is depressing economy. Business likes a predictable government.... the pres and congress need to get of their respective ideological boxes and get a budget and a long ten economic policy in place..

< Message edited by FunCouple5280 -- 3/21/2013 10:44:20 PM >

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 10:52:49 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

How was the quality of life in the 70s compared to today? Or fifteen years ago?


The term quality of life (QOL) references the general well-being of individuals and societies. The term is used in a wide range of contexts, including the fields of international development, healthcare, and politics. Quality of life should not be confused with the concept of standard of living, which is based primarily on income. Instead, standard indicators of the quality of life include not only wealth and employment, but also the built environment, physical and mental health, education, recreation and leisure time, and social belonging

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_life

So, lets go with standard of living instead.

Current

The median income is $43,318 per household ($26,000 per household member)[1] with 42% of households having two income earners.[37] Meanwhile, the median income of the average American age 25+ was roughly $32,000[2] ($39,000 if only counting those employed full-time between the ages of 25 to 64) in 2005.[3] According to the CIA the gini index which measures income inequality (the higher the less equal the income distribution) was clocked at 45.0 in 2005,[38] compared to 32.0 in the European Union[39] and 28.3 in Germany.[40]

|The US has... a per capita GDP [PPP] of $42,000... The [recent] onrush of technology largely explains the gradual development of a "two-tier labor market"... Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households... The rise in GDP in 2004 and 2005 was undergirded by substantial gains in labor productivity... Long-term problems include inadequate investment in economic infrastructure, rapidly rising medical and pension costs of an aging population, sizable trade and budget deficits, and stagnation of family income in the lower economic groups. -CIA factbook on the US economy, 2005.[38]

The United States has one of the widest rich-poor gaps of any high-income nation today, and that gap continues to grow.[41] In recent times, some prominent economists including Alan Greenspan have warned that the widening rich-poor gap in the U.S. population is a problem that could undermine and destabilize the country's economy and standard of living stating that "The income gap between the rich and the rest of the US population has become so wide, and is growing so fast, that it might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself".[42]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_the_United_States

Think life is not as good as it used to be, at least in terms of your wallet? You'd be right about that. The standard of living for Americans has fallen longer and more steeply over the past three years than at any time since the US government began recording it five decades ago.

Bottom line: The average individual now has $1,315 less in disposable income than he or she did three years ago at the onset of the Great Recession – even though the recession ended, technically speaking, in mid-2009. That means less money to spend at the spa or the movies, less for vacations, new carpeting for the house, or dinner at a restaurant.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/44962589



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 10:54:14 PM   
FunCouple5280


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Two pieces... some states have the minimum wage pegged to inflation now as per your source... so I can say 'at best it mirrors inflation.'. I didn't say it leads inflation.


The second piece is if the gov gave a shit maybe they should stop printing money and devaluing it. You don't have to tell me we are earning less. The paycheck doesn't go as far each month.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/21/2013 11:05:41 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Two pieces... some states have the minimum wage pegged to inflation now as per your source... so I can say 'at best it mirrors inflation.'. I didn't say it leads inflation.


It doesnt even follow inflation.

quote:

The second piece is if the gov gave a shit maybe they should stop printing money and devaluing it. You don't have to tell me we are earning less. The paycheck doesn't go as far each month.


It doesnt. And the results are bad.

It affects businesses directly in more workplace accidents, increased time lost for sick time. Poor worker satisfaction (which leads to poorer productivity and bad attitudes) And thats just the actual financial line.

We are a sick society that devalues preventative care and pushes curative, which is staggeringly higher in cost.

So far, business has yet to even bother to address these issues as a whole. Instead, they have stock piled income, praised their CEO's and lavished them with massive bonuses while cutting jobs. Cut jobs and there is less consumers available to purchase their products.

People are demanding a living wage. Not a penthouse one. Give people the ability to breathe and relax when they get home and businesses will have a happier and more productive work force.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/22/2013 12:44:06 AM   
tweakabelle


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The minimum wage in Australia is AUD $15.95 (approx US $16.50). Source.
The minimum wage in the US varies from $7.35 - $9.19 (Jan 1, 2013 figures)

The unemployment rate in Australia has hovered around the 5.0% mark for about a decade.

While these figures are revealing, we should be cautious about reading too much into them. For example, differences in health care costs and contributions are not included, but constitute a major difference in cost-of-living figures, further exacerbating the differences in wages in the US and Australia.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/22/2013 12:59:59 AM >


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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/22/2013 6:59:01 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
The second piece is if the gov gave a shit maybe they should stop printing money and devaluing it. You don't have to tell me we are earning less. The paycheck doesn't go as far each month.

I certainly agree. It doesn't help anything that the fed is printing up billions of dollars and giving them as handouts to the wealthy.

But honestly, as the cost of labor goes lower and lower you see that as a good thing? Given "free trade" that means American workers will be competing directly against the cheapest labor in the world so eventually we should see income down at the pennies per day level. As is always true, this same rule does not apply equally to all workers. Execs and CEO's don't find the need to compete and boards of directors don't see no reason to perform their fiduciary responsibllities.

I agree with the things you are saying. But somehow you are going to need to close the CEO pay multiple in the US which has run AMOK relative to the rest of the world. In the US, CEO's make roughly 500:1. In Canada, that is 20:1. What you see there is stark evidence that the "free market" isn't at play. What do you plan to do about it?

_____________________________

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/22/2013 7:34:57 AM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am sure it has been said already, but how about we pay congressmen minimum wage?

Some of the arguments against minimum wage brings to mind "Sixteen tons"


I believe congressmen are suppose to be paid "per diem"

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/22/2013 7:40:50 AM   
Nosathro


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Raising minimum wage will mean businesses deciding whether or not they need a certain number of employees, substituting staff with self-checkout lines, investing more in automation if possible, cutting benefits where they can be cut, cutting hours where they can be cut

Walmart is did that but they did not raise the wages, they did terminate their low wage people, the higher paid employees got bonuses.

(in reply to TricklessMagic)
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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/22/2013 8:28:49 AM   
FunCouple5280


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Getting to you Jeff and Tazz. I understand the wage disparity. I am not saying I agree with it. However, mandating higher wages won't fix it for everyone. There is always a limited number that benefit. Like a Pizza delivery guy, that job cannot be replaced by a machine at this time. So, a higher minimum would benefit that person. However, you will see more and more pizza joints offering carry-out specials like Dominos. Thus, they can try and eliminate the delivery boys.

Tazz it is very easy to blame business as a whole. It is a nebulous non-entity. However, if you think the gov has your best interests in mind when they write this crap you are blind. What is crippling the middle class? How about the fact they are not in control, even as voters, of their representatives. The power structure between the lobbyist and the politician and the mega-corps and the bureaucrats (look how many regulators used to work for the companies they now regulate....hmmm curious) is the reason none of this matters. Unless you see congress focusing on this corruption (which they never will, both sides get rich from it) this isn't going away soon

So, you raise the minimum wage. Big deal. The big boys get a work around. You might even see them embrace it. They get a government subsidy, replace some employees with a machine etc. However, all of the smaller business, who don't have the wage disparities, and have the personal relationships with their employees get hosed. They are now less competitive against their bigger cousins. Hence you just eliminated their small competitors from them, how nice.

Ultimately, you can change it on the consumer level. If you give a crap and are willing to pay the higher prices, you should look for locally made products using fair labor practices. Chances are you just aren't that dedicated like everyone else.

As far as jobs and what I have been saying about wages. Well, despite the high unemployment rate, there are a number of job sectors in the US that have employee shortages and are offering exceptional pay. Most are in the skilled trades (diesel tech, mechanics, welders, etc) and technology fields (engineering type stuff). We are in a post-industrial society. Skilled labor is rule and not the exception. The focus should be getting people the right degrees and training for those jobs. Unskilled labor is not something that can pay when there is an abundance of people and limited job market. Hey but I get keep giving student loans to anyone for any reason. Its no big deal if they major in 14th century pottery or political science, they have a college degree, right? Meanwhile China and India are spitting out engineers etc in record numbers. I wonder how long it will be before they start 'outsourcing' crappy jobs to us. Maybe you will get your wish, a low unemployment number making crappy export junk.

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/22/2013 8:41:27 AM   
TricklessMagic


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I'm all for getting rid of free trade, the concept always seemed strange to me, get rid of NAFTA. American workers cannot compete with the slave wages paid in China nor against enslaved labor in other parts of the world. Before NAFTA goods and foods were still affordable and there were more jobs for skilled labor. That skilled labor demand has gone over to India and China, which has in part led to the greater demand for oil on a global basis which has raised the cost of gasoline and other goods.

So I'll back getting rid of Free Trade which would help with a lot of the problems we are facing. When I've made this argument with liberals they spoke of sanctions against us which I found strange since the U.S. is still a high consumer on the global stage. Now there could be some issue with other countries no longer buying our goods which could hurt exports but if so many of the jobs came back from China, India, Pakistan, Vietnam, etc. I don't think that would be a big deal. The coal mining industry might be harmed as China buys so much of our coal but China as I understand it are largely dependent on us supplying that coal. But our steel industry would get jobs back as well as lumberjacks (wood harvesting/cutting) and textiles. Goods would go up in costs but there would be more employment which could cause possibly for wages to go up.

So lets get rid of free trade and see if that will create jobs. If it does then employers will have to raise their wages to compete for a shrinking pool of unskilled laborers.

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/22/2013 8:50:55 AM   
FunCouple5280


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Maybe we need a 'fair' trade agreement. Your shit gets heavily tariffed if you don't follow basic rules for workplace safety, working age, environmental protection, subsidies (ie don't subsidize your exports) and wages. If it is fair it is free, if it is predatory it is taxed.

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RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/22/2013 8:51:43 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
Getting to you Jeff and Tazz. I understand the wage disparity. I am not saying I agree with it. However, mandating higher wages won't fix it for everyone.

And your solution to this is "get a job?" -- or more specifically, "a skilled job"? Your feeling is that too many people are graduating with degrees in underwater basket weaving? I'm really trying to take this post seriously because I think you're trying to be serious. But I admit I'm struggling. This post looks like the post of someone living 20 years or more in the past. It doesn't appear well connected to the actualities of the labor market today.

Depending on who you want to believe a college education MIGHT be an investment with a 20 year long payback. That, of course, assumes some sort of magical recovery in the economy. It also skips an awful lot of side-costs associated with white collar degrees (such as increased wardrobe costs). It also includes "the 1%" which vastly skews the numbers.

In other words, college degrees aren't really a smart business investment nowadays even under the most optimistic of assumptions.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Elizabeth Warren & the Minimum Wage - 3/22/2013 8:54:11 AM   
TricklessMagic


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro



Raising minimum wage will mean businesses deciding whether or not they need a certain number of employees, substituting staff with self-checkout lines, investing more in automation if possible, cutting benefits where they can be cut, cutting hours where they can be cut

Walmart is did that but they did not raise the wages, they did terminate their low wage people, the higher paid employees got bonuses.


Of course they did, why would you expect anything else. It's business, get rich, then get richer, and if you can get even richer. Raising minimum wage would just motivate them to do it more. Walmart has investors and stock holders to answer to who demand a ROI. Hedge funds are staying out of investing in businesses and are moving back into real estate. The popular belief is the possible rebound in the real estate market as opposed to the labor market because of stagnated demand for goods and services.

The whole point of creating a business is to make money and possibly get rich. My carpet cleaning business at one time was growing then the market dropped through the floor. My employees begged me to spend more money on advertising. Something I considered a waste. All of my employees were 1099s so kept the advertising budget set. Of the five employees only two remain and the business barely limps on. Some would say I had a moral duty to spend my money on more advertising to grow the business in the face of minimal demand to keep my employees working. The ROI was just not there so I otherwise invested the money elsewhere. The only reason I don't close it is because eventually the market will rebound and the business's history is of value, so there is no point in closing it, just keep the website running, keep the two employees who barely make more than ten dollars an hour, and so on.

Walmart is doing what it needs to do to remain profitable for its shareholders and investors. If they don't the investors and shareholders will pull out and hurt the business as they have to liquidate capital to pay out the shareholders.

The higher end employees were deemed to be of value and irreplaceable so Walmart gave them bonuses, the unskilled labor was expendable and so they got rid of them. It's how business is done.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 100
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