RE: home birth in chains

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Extravagasm -> RE: home birth in chains (3/24/2013 2:33:51 AM)
quote: CarolBC Post 74: Wow - has this topic ever push buttons! And I thought men wearing women's panties was at the top of the Outrage-O-Meter! Little did I know there were so many rules to having children. Well said, Carol. Nice surprise to read your voice and see you in.

LafayetteLady -> RE: home birth in chains (3/24/2013 8:36:55 AM)
Doing yoga is not the same as having to suddenly run to a child's aid in any emergency. And you are quite right, SHE has the ability to put them on and take them off. So once again, this is a woman who basically acts out her fantasies, and lets her husband use the title "master" because it suits the fantasy. Pretty ridiculous.

AllisonWilder -> RE: home birth in chains (3/24/2013 7:57:39 PM)
Wow, this has been an interesting read. If chains of some sort can be worn safely during childbirth, then that's just fine to me. Maybe just using one chain rather than having both wrists and ankles would be an alternative worth considering. At least that way, the risk will be minimized in case of an emergency situation. Running around and unlocking all 4 cuffs in a panic (because if there is an emergency, there WILL be panic as mom and baby could both potentially be at risk) seems like a bad plan. I see no real issue with wearing chains around the house, but I don't really agree with it either. I'm a parent of a toddler who climbs things, opens doors leading to staircases, turns on faucets and climbs into bathtubs and all sorts of crazy things. These things can happen in mere seconds and if I wasn't paying attention, he could easily be harmed (falling down the stairs, falling off of chairs and hitting his head, drowning in the tub or burning himself turning on hot water) and in these instances, I need to run to make sure that he's safe. He's a toddler, so he's fearless...I'm his mother, so I'm not. All I can think is, if a child does even one of those things and the chains were to hinder the ability to get to them quickly, it could have a terrible result. OP, you're going to do what you think is best either way, I just hope you really consider all the risks involved in birthing in chains. Consult more than just your midwife. Ask a few doctors, nurses, other midwives for their honest input. Good luck to you, your wife, your children and your unborn child!

wintermaster -> RE: home birth in chains (3/24/2013 8:38:14 PM)
I have been watching the board off and on this weekend. I appreciate the constructive alternatives and dissenting opinions. Most people brought up some great points and concerns and if we do this, we will be going with velcro or a quick release type of cuff so that they can be removed in seconds. The chains will be disposable. thank you everyone.

MAINEiacMISTRESS -> RE: home birth in chains (3/24/2013 9:10:24 PM)
The birth of a child should be a BEAUTIFUL event, not a sadistic/masochistic one. Plus in doing this you are including a CHILD in your BDSM activities...DOES THE CHILD CONSENT TO BE INCLUDED? ....and what are you going to TELL HER/HIM when they someday ask about the details of their birth? "Mommy was in chains" is not something a child of any age will want to hear...it may freak them out, even make them feel like they were ROBBED of having their first moment be a beautiful one, it might even cause them to TURN on you or their father----'he's a "psycho" who chained up Mom while she was giving birth' afterall...or at the very least feel disgust that you EXPLOITED them so that you could have an "experience" (and YES, people DO put a lot of importance on the details of their own birth later in life). Teenagers struggle through enough psychological issues regarding their parents and details of their upbringing, why give them something like this to complicate things? You could LIE...but then again, should you be lying about an event so special in her/his life? Is lying to your kids "okay" in your mind? I suggest you call Department of Human Services, or whatever organization handles child welfare in your area, and ask THEIR opinion on the subject. If you don't, I'll bet the midwife or doctor will. I believe in most states health professionals have the responsibility to report when they suspect child exploitation or abuse, regardless of patient confidenciality.

Greta75 -> RE: home birth in chains (3/24/2013 11:07:53 PM)
Wow Wow Wow, I've often pondered about starting a family with a d/s sort of relationship. How will it work? Considering there will hardly be time for play when the first few years, the child needs so much attention. And here is a family doing it with chains worn openly infront of children, and now chains while giving birth. And I don't know if I would ever wanna explain to my child about my d/s relationship with his her daddy. It's bad enough explaining about sex. I would explore psychological implications on the child alot more than anything else if one were to go ahead. As one of the posters said, nobody want to know that their mom gave birth to them in chains. Even if ya into D/S.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 6:54:00 AM)
If it's a home birth, and the other kids are involved, I'm assuming they're old enough to wonder about the chains, or if she wears them at home, does she wear them in front of them? I dunno... for some reason, the idea of wearing obvious bondage or some sort in front of kids has always seemed dubious to me. Collars can be necklaces but ... chains are chains. I like the idea of home birth, but the chains just seem inappropriate. Are there going to be photos to document this? Are you going to tell the child about this? Will they be visible in photos?

theshytype -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 8:22:00 AM)
I've checked most of my opinions in at the door. At this point, it's not necessary to express them. I'm glad you have taken some of the advice here in regards to disposable and easily removable chains. I hope the mother is as comfortable as she can be and you both have a healthy baby.

aurelianus -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 8:31:46 AM)
I have been watching this thread for several days and wanted to comment. My credentials include an advance degree and training in matters dealing with children and I work closely with CPS. First, from a psychological standpoint, there is no evidence in the literature that a baby, when older, will have any lasting detrimental issues with knowing that his/her mother wore shackles during labor and delivery. Usually, many children do not even know the circumstances of the birth until much closer to adulthood if at all (I know I have never asked my mother about my birth other than it was natural and in the hospital). Secondly, wearing chains occasionally around children is considered a minor deviance from social norms and has been shown many times to not adversely affect the child. That is not to say that you will find an study in the literature that deals specifically with children being exposed to their mother wearing light bondage around the house. It is only that minor differences in social norms has no affect on children and they grow up healthy and normal when compared to their peers. The bottom line is that children are not as delicate as many profess on this thread and a loving supportive environment in the absence of abuse will produce well adjusted children. Lastly, though anything can be reported to CPS. CPS, in my state, would not investigate based on the report that "there is a mother that wears chains in front of her children." The basis of a CPS investigation would be reported physical/sexual abuse, neglect (malnutrition) including medical neglect, child endangerment (leaving your child in a locked car while the parent shops, living in a house with a meth lab). There are other broad sections that would prompt at CPS investigation but these are the only areas that the current situation by the OP would fall under. As a general warning to those that would notify CPS on the drop of a hat, again anything can be mentioned to CPS by a lay person (only certain things are reportable by mandatory reports, i.e. doctors, teachers who are trained to know when to report and when not to) but use caution on embellishing the facts you want to report. If you knowingly make a false statement that results in a CPS investigation and later it is determined that parts of the original report were fabricated, the reporting person can be charge with a class C felony in my state. I have seen it happen. Charging a person that makes a false report was designed as a deterrent in family custody situations where accusations abound.

MasterCaneman -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 9:43:10 AM)
I've been eyeballing this thread since I first came on, and the more I read, the less and less I like the idea. While not knowledgeable about midwifery in the least, I can grasp that the baby itself wouldn't be affected, but as other pointed out, if things go downhill in a hurry and mom is shackled when the paramedics arrive, there are going to be some hard questions asked. As for the other children, all I can say is this: there is no more effective a recording device than a young child. They have few if any filters, and will happily tell just about anyone they trust things that mom and dad might not want the world at large to know about. Forget about the "two mommies/two daddies" line, just look at all the news reports about people getting pulled over and their kid telling the nice policeman where the dope is stashed or where the guns are hidden. You can count me in among the "no" voters on this idea. Too many variables at play, and none positive.

lapgirl -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 10:40:57 AM)
and to think I had a nursing professor who fought with the DOC to allow inmates to give birth without shackles on. Things that make you go hhmmmm.....

Baroana -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 11:15:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aurelianus I have been watching this thread for several days and wanted to comment. My credentials include an advance degree and training in matters dealing with children and I work closely with CPS. First, from a psychological standpoint, there is no evidence in the literature that a baby, when older, will have any lasting detrimental issues with knowing that his/her mother wore shackles during labor and delivery. Usually, many children do not even know the circumstances of the birth until much closer to adulthood if at all (I know I have never asked my mother about my birth other than it was natural and in the hospital). Secondly, wearing chains occasionally around children is considered a minor deviance from social norms and has been shown many times to not adversely affect the child. That is not to say that you will find an study in the literature that deals specifically with children being exposed to their mother wearing light bondage around the house. It is only that minor differences in social norms has no affect on children and they grow up healthy and normal when compared to their peers. The bottom line is that children are not as delicate as many profess on this thread and a loving supportive environment in the absence of abuse will produce well adjusted children. Lastly, though anything can be reported to CPS. CPS, in my state, would not investigate based on the report that "there is a mother that wears chains in front of her children." The basis of a CPS investigation would be reported physical/sexual abuse, neglect (malnutrition) including medical neglect, child endangerment (leaving your child in a locked car while the parent shops, living in a house with a meth lab). There are other broad sections that would prompt at CPS investigation but these are the only areas that the current situation by the OP would fall under. As a general warning to those that would notify CPS on the drop of a hat, again anything can be mentioned to CPS by a lay person (only certain things are reportable by mandatory reports, i.e. doctors, teachers who are trained to know when to report and when not to) but use caution on embellishing the facts you want to report. If you knowingly make a false statement that results in a CPS investigation and later it is determined that parts of the original report were fabricated, the reporting person can be charge with a class C felony in my state. I have seen it happen. Charging a person that makes a false report was designed as a deterrent in family custody situations where accusations abound. So..... you are saying that BDSM, which looks A LOT like sexism to the untrained observer, is something that children can be exposed to without negative consequences?

aurelianus -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 11:32:52 AM)
Just saying that very light acts of BDSM along with other mild social deviances have not been shown to adversely affect children. Now that is true in the absence of abuse, which is the side of BDSM that no child should see. But the freely mobile chains that have been described are not detrimental especially in the context of a loving nurturing home. Secondly, I would not report it if a child told me that "mommy wears chains" and upon further questioning was assured that the child was not being abused or neglected.

tazzygirl -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 12:11:34 PM)
quote: As a general warning to those that would notify CPS on the drop of a hat, again anything can be mentioned to CPS by a lay person (only certain things are reportable by mandatory reports, i.e. doctors, teachers who are trained to know when to report and when not to) but use caution on embellishing the facts you want to report. If you knowingly make a false statement that results in a CPS investigation and later it is determined that parts of the original report were fabricated, the reporting person can be charge with a class C felony in my state. I have seen it happen. Charging a person that makes a false report was designed as a deterrent in family custody situations where accusations abound. I dont see how making a report that a mother is in chains in the home around her children would be viewed as a "false report"

MasterCaneman -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 1:05:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lapgirl and to think I had a nursing professor who fought with the DOC to allow inmates to give birth without shackles on. Things that make you go hhmmmm..... There's a big difference between an inmate giving birth in a proper hospital with doctors, nurses, and practiced protocols in place for dealing with such a situation. I do know this, because I worked at UUMC in SLC for awhile. Not discounting the skills and experience of a midwife, but if there were an emergency situation that woman would have near-instant response, and those shackles would be off in seconds, if necessary. Not so much in home-birth situation.

Baroana -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 3:46:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aurelianus Just saying that very light acts of BDSM along with other mild social deviances have not been shown to adversely affect children. Just what study was this? [>:]

LafayetteLady -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 3:54:00 PM)
And just what study was done on this? Because frankly, I have some experience in the area as well, and believe you are talking out of your ass. First off, CPS is REQUIRED BY LAW to respond to each and every report made to them about a child, whether they don't feel it has merit or not. Second, I don't see how female children would not be adversely affected growing up thinking a woman should be chained and at home. Post some legitimate link, or give up the bullshit.

Baroana -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 4:57:00 PM)
For the sake of argument, let's say that a study was conducted wherein children were shown so called light acts of bdsm. Then what? They were watched to see if their heads exploded? They were asked whether they had nightmares? They were followed up on ten years later to check whether they had become drug addicts? I would think that the potential negative effects in this case could be much more subtle.

littlewonder -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 7:06:02 PM)
Why not? There have been studies done where they studied children at a young age for whatever reason and then went on to study them 10 years later to see the results. Now if there has been one done for this in some kind of manner, I have no idea but it's something that maybe one day someone will do. It would be interesting to see.

tazzygirl -> RE: home birth in chains (3/25/2013 8:43:45 PM)
Seems to me that such a study, with results, would not be kept quiet by the community, especially if it entails a favorable outcome.

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