quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I am going to have to back track myself a little, I found out that Nancy did have a gun safe, it was in her bed room where she was killed, opened, now that is really and I mean really stupid. You have a person in your house, you claim they are out of control, violent, you leave guns out and not lock them up when you have the means to? I am not trying to fix blame on Nancy, but you have to admit she was irresponsible.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
No we don't worship them. We also do not conced power over us by them. they are tools,no more , no less. For me a too; to among other things, defend myself.
You ever try squill hunting with a 9mm? Or bird hunting with a rifle? Hunt a mose with a shotgun and we notify your next of ken. Your entire post proves only that you know nothing about firearms or the people who own them.

I never said there werent legit reasons to have a gun and I was referring to people that have a bunch of guns for no real reason or purpose.. few people that have more than one gun ever hunt or use them all for that.. Lanza and his mother didnt, from the reports.. so why the fuck did she have all these guns?

Yes you said more than one

.. people that think they need more than one gun scare the poop outta me..

For self defence alone the best gun to carry is not the best gun for self defense. A shotgun, two handguns, and a light easy to use rifle. That is not "all those guns" if she had had 40 or so that would be different.
Do you need a car that can go 90?
That isn't legal anywhere and it is dagerous to drive that fast both to you and to others.
Do you want to give upyour car?
Does not wanting to mean you worship your car?
Would you think that anyone who said you did was a crackpot.
Owning firearms is a right.
There is no need to justify exersizing a right.
A car is a previlege you might have to justify that.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Well if Adam was kicked out of the home he would be just one more of the estimated 200,000 mentally ill that are homeless in this country.

It could be that the reason this happened was cuz his mother was considering or planning to put him in a special school/institution and that set him off.. according to some reports there was a court thing she was doing, perhaps to get him committed.. I dont know if the cops have verified that or not.. Its easy for people to flippantly say to throw mentally ill kids/family members in institutions but actually doing that takes time & has roadblocks.. legal ones and emotional ones..

Do you have a butcher knife, you going to sleep well with them in the kitchen and a dangerously unstable person in the house?
Did you ever hear of Ted Bundy or lizzie Borden?

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: tj444
well.. I have never seen a rabbit or moose in the city.. so I would not be shooting them.. I think that is quite frowned upon in my metro area..

I grew up on a farm and my father had one rifle.. he shot cows & pigs (the ones that ended up as packages in our freezer) and pheasants with it, sometimes other critters.. seemed to work for him..

The number of guns a person has is (imo) a reflection of your American gun culture, which is what is scary.. the mental state of the person in control of the gun(s)..

Thank you for taking the time to answer My question.

The gun that has the firepower to kill the moose would obliterate a rabbit. A smaller gun to kill the rabbit would leave the moose wounded and suffering in the wilderness until it bled to death.

There's a difference shooting animals in the wild than when the animal is fenced in and used to people walking up to it. Moose and bears are not the docile creatures that you find on farms. I didn't know until I moved up here, but moose charge. They are also pretty darn fast for an animal that can weigh up to 1400 lbs. You don't really have to do anything to tick it off.

I don't think I have the link from the last time I was on one of the gun threads, but when I looked it up a couple of months ago, roughly 25% of the Alaskan population hunts at least one time over a three year period. That's not including the hunting licenses that are issued to out of state visitors. Also not included are the people that go camping that need a gun for protection from wildlife. These are still good reasons to own guns.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

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I think for me the scariest was a reported file containing pictures of dead people. As to some many here all I can think of..is what Admiral Rickover said at a congressional hearing on Reagan plane for new ICBM. I am paraphasing "We have the ablity to destory this planet 35 times over, how many more times do we have be able to destory this planet before we feel safe." So much for the National Paranoia.

After I reading some of the thread responses I was kind of dumbfounded and unable to respond. Later I began to think of the US stockpile of Nuclear Weapons and our insane amount of military spending. It's irrational, and it's unhinged. There's just no rational basis to it.

There's no rational basis to have a arsenal of weapons in one's suburban CT home, so the only fallback Gun Nuts have is "my Second Amendment rights."

Sadly, this is a destructive "right."

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I am going to have to back track myself a little, I found out that Nancy did have a gun safe, it was in her bed room where she was killed, opened, now that is really and I mean really stupid. You have a person in your house, you claim they are out of control, violent, you leave guns out and not lock them up when you have the means to? I am not trying to fix blame on Nancy, but you have to admit she was irresponsible.

You may not, I am, I am a parent and I know how hard it is to be one, but quite frankly, the woman was either off the rails herself or was completely stupid, I suspect the latter. She wasn't alone in this, the father could be involved and if they wanted to get him committed, the guy had the firepower to do that. The guy is a senior executive at GE Capital in their tax office, I work with someone whose wife works in that division, the father is way, way up the food chain, he is making 7 figures, easily, and had the kind of legal help at his disposal that could get the kid into treatment, but apparently the wife didn't bother to ask him,

Every piece of evidence we have is that she was a stupid sack of shit, and if Oprah wants to claim she is a victim and the rest of the people saying she was a victim, I'll barf. I have heard advocates for the mental health community claiming Adam was a victim, that memorials should mention 28 victims, but that is crap. The kid went there to kill little kids, didn't give a crap, he knew it was wrong, he was wearing body armor, and he killed himself when he realized the cops were coming because he knew the consequences....I don't consider him a victim at all, to be honest.

As far as the mother, I don't want to hear how she was struggling to deal with him, it sounds to me like her answer was to let the kid around guns, shoot with him, and allow the kid to have a mess of weapons around that you wonder about them to to start with. She bought the kid the body armor (he didn't have money of his own), and she sat there while the kid spent most of the day playing violent video games in the basement of the house, and didn't wonder why the kid was doing nothing, doing that for years. My personal opinion she was a nut herself, the survivalist stuff alone, the reveling in gun ownership, smacks of that, but the key thing is she has a kid that a 6 year old child could tell was off, not normal, and she fed that, didn't get him help, sat there while he basically moldered for several years, and allowed him access to all kinds of weapons. She wasn't a victim, she was the poster child for someone with shit for brains, to say the least. I would be concerned if my son was into shoot em up games (he has had a couple, played them briefly, and thought they were hysterical), and all he did was play them day after day and he is normal (though after playing them like that, I wonder if a normal kid would come out straight, it can't be good for you), but she was oblivious to what he was doing. Yes, he was 20, but it was her house, and she could set the rules, but she didn't. And leaving the gun safe open, the weapons lying around the house? That is like leaving matches around a 5 year old and then sitting back and saying "I can't understand how the house burned down".

I don't have problems with gun ownership even though I choose not to, but I also think it is about time we had accountability for gun owners, too, for their stupidity. We have a lot more accountability with cars and boats then we do with guns, and that is idiotic.

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

You also consider transgender people who don't do it your way to be "morons"... your words.

Whether you get off on being intolerant or not, the epidemic of suicide and its overlap with the profile of the school shooters is undeniable, and far too strong a positive correlation to be hand waved away.

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I am going to have to back track myself a little, I found out that Nancy did have a gun safe, it was in her bed room where she was killed, opened, now that is really and I mean really stupid. You have a person in your house, you claim they are out of control, violent, you leave guns out and not lock them up when you have the means to? I am not trying to fix blame on Nancy, but you have to admit she was irresponsible.

You may not, I am, I am a parent and I know how hard it is to be one, but quite frankly, the woman was either off the rails herself or was completely stupid, I suspect the latter. She wasn't alone in this, the father could be involved and if they wanted to get him committed, the guy had the firepower to do that. The guy is a senior executive at GE Capital in their tax office, I work with someone whose wife works in that division, the father is way, way up the food chain, he is making 7 figures, easily, and had the kind of legal help at his disposal that could get the kid into treatment, but apparently the wife didn't bother to ask him,

Every piece of evidence we have is that she was a stupid sack of shit, and if Oprah wants to claim she is a victim and the rest of the people saying she was a victim, I'll barf. I have heard advocates for the mental health community claiming Adam was a victim, that memorials should mention 28 victims, but that is crap. The kid went there to kill little kids, didn't give a crap, he knew it was wrong, he was wearing body armor, and he killed himself when he realized the cops were coming because he knew the consequences....I don't consider him a victim at all, to be honest.

As far as the mother, I don't want to hear how she was struggling to deal with him, it sounds to me like her answer was to let the kid around guns, shoot with him, and allow the kid to have a mess of weapons around that you wonder about them to to start with. She bought the kid the body armor (he didn't have money of his own), and she sat there while the kid spent most of the day playing violent video games in the basement of the house, and didn't wonder why the kid was doing nothing, doing that for years. My personal opinion she was a nut herself, the survivalist stuff alone, the reveling in gun ownership, smacks of that, but the key thing is she has a kid that a 6 year old child could tell was off, not normal, and she fed that, didn't get him help, sat there while he basically moldered for several years, and allowed him access to all kinds of weapons. She wasn't a victim, she was the poster child for someone with shit for brains, to say the least. I would be concerned if my son was into shoot em up games (he has had a couple, played them briefly, and thought they were hysterical), and all he did was play them day after day and he is normal (though after playing them like that, I wonder if a normal kid would come out straight, it can't be good for you), but she was oblivious to what he was doing. Yes, he was 20, but it was her house, and she could set the rules, but she didn't. And leaving the gun safe open, the weapons lying around the house? That is like leaving matches around a 5 year old and then sitting back and saying "I can't understand how the house burned down".

I don't have problems with gun ownership even though I choose not to, but I also think it is about time we had accountability for gun owners, too, for their stupidity. We have a lot more accountability with cars and boats then we do with guns, and that is idiotic.

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

You also consider transgender people who don't do it your way to be "morons"... your words.

Whether you get off on being intolerant or not, the epidemic of suicide and its overlap with the profile of the school shooters is undeniable, and far too strong a positive correlation to be hand waved away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I am going to have to back track myself a little, I found out that Nancy did have a gun safe, it was in her bed room where she was killed, opened, now that is really and I mean really stupid. You have a person in your house, you claim they are out of control, violent, you leave guns out and not lock them up when you have the means to? I am not trying to fix blame on Nancy, but you have to admit she was irresponsible.

You may not, I am, I am a parent and I know how hard it is to be one, but quite frankly, the woman was either off the rails herself or was completely stupid, I suspect the latter. She wasn't alone in this, the father could be involved and if they wanted to get him committed, the guy had the firepower to do that. The guy is a senior executive at GE Capital in their tax office, I work with someone whose wife works in that division, the father is way, way up the food chain, he is making 7 figures, easily, and had the kind of legal help at his disposal that could get the kid into treatment, but apparently the wife didn't bother to ask him,

Every piece of evidence we have is that she was a stupid sack of shit, and if Oprah wants to claim she is a victim and the rest of the people saying she was a victim, I'll barf. I have heard advocates for the mental health community claiming Adam was a victim, that memorials should mention 28 victims, but that is crap. The kid went there to kill little kids, didn't give a crap, he knew it was wrong, he was wearing body armor, and he killed himself when he realized the cops were coming because he knew the consequences....I don't consider him a victim at all, to be honest.

As far as the mother, I don't want to hear how she was struggling to deal with him, it sounds to me like her answer was to let the kid around guns, shoot with him, and allow the kid to have a mess of weapons around that you wonder about them to to start with. She bought the kid the body armor (he didn't have money of his own), and she sat there while the kid spent most of the day playing violent video games in the basement of the house, and didn't wonder why the kid was doing nothing, doing that for years. My personal opinion she was a nut herself, the survivalist stuff alone, the reveling in gun ownership, smacks of that, but the key thing is she has a kid that a 6 year old child could tell was off, not normal, and she fed that, didn't get him help, sat there while he basically moldered for several years, and allowed him access to all kinds of weapons. She wasn't a victim, she was the poster child for someone with shit for brains, to say the least. I would be concerned if my son was into shoot em up games (he has had a couple, played them briefly, and thought they were hysterical), and all he did was play them day after day and he is normal (though after playing them like that, I wonder if a normal kid would come out straight, it can't be good for you), but she was oblivious to what he was doing. Yes, he was 20, but it was her house, and she could set the rules, but she didn't. And leaving the gun safe open, the weapons lying around the house? That is like leaving matches around a 5 year old and then sitting back and saying "I can't understand how the house burned down".

I don't have problems with gun ownership even though I choose not to, but I also think it is about time we had accountability for gun owners, too, for their stupidity. We have a lot more accountability with cars and boats then we do with guns, and that is idiotic.

I don't know where that came from, but it isn't true, that is typical of what passes for debate these days, can't come up with an answer, claim something stupid (I have met transgender people I think who were morons, but wasn't over doing things differently then myself, I have called them morons for judging other people). This isn't about a matter of style, Nancy Lanza had a kid who was off the rails, and it wasn't just being autistic, and if I put a case in front of a jury, few people would assume via the rational man logic that what she did was anything but moronic. She had a kid who had severe problems, couldn't function, and her answer was to let him sit there day after day playing violent video games, she gave him body armor, took the kid shooting, apparently gave him money to buy his own gun, let him have access to the guns (explain to me the opened gun safe), and you consider that responsible parenting? Not to mention a house full of knives, swords, etc? This isn't s disagreement over parenting styles, this is plain old fashioned stupidity.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I've mentioned on several threads in the past that My girl child (now grown) was pretty tough to raise. As much as I was concerned about being the only adult in the house while MP was deployed for safety reasons, and a gun in the house would have leveled the playing field if we ever had a break in, I was actually more worried about the kid getting the gun. She got in My fireproof document safe more than once. All it took was her finding where I had the combination written down.

The gun safe wasn't going to stop Adam Lanza. Even if Nancy Lanza had made the same choice about not owning guns until Adam moved out, all that would mean would be that he would postpone whatever plan he had until after his twenty-first birthday. In a small classroom at close range, he didn't even need what he had to get off twenty-two shots at mostly young children. The only difference would have been the actual number of holes that he was able to get into each of the victims.

I honestly don't know if tougher gun laws would have prevented Sandy Hook. Have a good look at illegal gun sales.

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Yeah, if you don't nip that scary knife/sword thing in the bud, you know what comes next, right? Ninjas!!! Ninjas and Asian gangs wanting to sleep with your daughters...

Wasn't that the mantra for the Aussie sword crackdown??

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Thank you for taking the time to answer My question.

The gun that has the firepower to kill the moose would obliterate a rabbit. A smaller gun to kill the rabbit would leave the moose wounded and suffering in the wilderness until it bled to death.

There's a difference shooting animals in the wild than when the animal is fenced in and used to people walking up to it. Moose and bears are not the docile creatures that you find on farms. I didn't know until I moved up here, but moose charge. They are also pretty darn fast for an animal that can weigh up to 1400 lbs. You don't really have to do anything to tick it off.

I don't think I have the link from the last time I was on one of the gun threads, but when I looked it up a couple of months ago, roughly 25% of the Alaskan population hunts at least one time over a three year period. That's not including the hunting licenses that are issued to out of state visitors. Also not included are the people that go camping that need a gun for protection from wildlife. These are still good reasons to own guns.
[/color]

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

Yeah, if you don't nip that scary knife/sword thing in the bud, you know what comes next, right? Ninjas!!! Ninjas and Asian gangs wanting to sleep with your daughters...

Wasn't that the mantra for the Aussie sword crackdown??

What are you trying to say?

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ORIGINAL: Nosathro
Your have a couple of assumptions, one is based on your own experience. I am not sure what type of safe Nancy had but with some taken some precautions, combinations and keys can be hard to obtain. As to Adam moving out or being confined until he is 21 then released that too is questionable. If it is true Nancy was having Adam committed he would spend alot more time past the his 21st birthday before his release. If Nancy also became Adam conservator and was given powers 7s, which is most likely the case she would have the authority to not only place Adam in an total institution but have a say in how long he would stay there or where he would go after discharge. I know many people once committed are never released.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: Nosathro
Your have a couple of assumptions, one is based on your own experience. I am not sure what type of safe Nancy had but with some taken some precautions, combinations and keys can be hard to obtain. As to Adam moving out or being confined until he is 21 then released that too is questionable. If it is true Nancy was having Adam committed he would spend alot more time past the his 21st birthday before his release. If Nancy also became Adam conservator and was given powers 7s, which is most likely the case she would have the authority to not only place Adam in an total institution but have a say in how long he would stay there or where he would go after discharge. I know many people once committed are never released.

Do you have a reference link that shows any attempt that Adam Lanza was in the process of being committed? My comment about him turning 21 was in reference to the fact that at the age of 21, he wouldn't have needed Nancy Lanza's weapons. At that time, he would have been an adult and could have purchased his own. The kid wasn't incompetent or a criminal before the shootings. There would have been no reason to have prohibited his own gun purchases.

It's not terribly hard to obtain a key or a combination when a person lives with you. How many people do you know that take their keys into the shower with them or wear their keys around their neck when they sleep at night? It's ridiculously easy for somebody who is in your own home to obtain your keys, especially if there's been no prior indication that you need to hide them from your own kid.

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ORIGINAL: TricklessMagic

For those of us who find the left ridiculous check out this thread on my favorite Pro-RKBA forum http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=710783 , it's about trying to see how the left sees firearms. It's hard not to laugh because you can totally see the idiots in the liberal media describing these guns in this fashion.

We need better civil commitment laws for the potentially deranged and dangerous. In Florida it is miserably difficult to Baker Act or Marchmen Act someone when you are not a cop. I get requests to help people with some degree of regularity and I turn them down because the process is an unmitigated joke. If I was ever to agree to an additional tax on firearms, I would agree to a five percent tax increase on firearm and ammo sales if it meant that at least one judge per county was to be available 24/7 for civil commitment hearings. If a judge, and two witnesses familiar with the party found the person to be a danger to themselves or others would result in a minimum three day detention with an in depth evaluation of the person. A doctor who found the person to be demonstrating signs of derangement or lack of empathy could sign off on the person to be interred for an additional week where a separate doctor would make another evaluation to determine if further detention was appropriate. After the three day and one week detention, any doctors further requesting detention would not be protected from suit for medical malpractice. Arresting officers who find a suspect to be making statements threatening violence or talking of suicide would also be able to write up a request for a doctor to evaluate the suspect and the suspect would not be able to go for bail till after a doctor made an evaluation.

So that's a start. Let's focus on the mental disease side of things because the right is not going to willingly give up its guns. Mental disease seems to be the cause in many murders and acts of crime so if we first deal with that and the issue persists, then we can evaluate what comes next. Till then, the feel good idiotic laws the left wants will be resisted at all turns by the right regardless. Simple as that.