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A knife in kitchen is used to make food

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If you sell a car to someone and they use it to commit a crime, and you can't prove you sold it and surrendered the plates, you will have a lot of explaining to do.

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ORIGINAL: Nosathro
It was reported in a few newpaper, however I myself have found no referrence to it. It is possible that Nancy could simply as many reported felt she could no longer contorl Adam and was preparing to have him declared a ward of the state. As reported and my own research seems to indicate that Connecticut has no age limitation on the purchase of rifles in fact it does appear Adam did attempt to purchase on prior to the incident but was turned down, the reason is not clear. So Adam did not need to turn 21 to purchase of rifle. It depends on what measure one takes to secure a safe key or combination. My own Mother had a small safe, and I could never find the combination. On her death, I has conservator had to have the safe opened by a licensed person.

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Now you are simply lying. You very clearly posted that any TG person who looked at what they were doing as playing around with gender roles, was a moron. Your denial that you posted that isn't going to change the fact that you said it.

And now you are advocating more intolerance for 'loonies' and others who aren't 'normal', while trying to derail any attempt to discuss the importance of mental health issues.

Knock yourself out with the hatemongering, I won't be bothering to read any more of it.

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

You also consider transgender people who don't do it your way to be "morons"... your words.

Whether you get off on being intolerant or not, the epidemic of suicide and its overlap with the profile of the school shooters is undeniable, and far too strong a positive correlation to be hand waved away.

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

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ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I am going to have to back track myself a little, I found out that Nancy did have a gun safe, it was in her bed room where she was killed, opened, now that is really and I mean really stupid. You have a person in your house, you claim they are out of control, violent, you leave guns out and not lock them up when you have the means to? I am not trying to fix blame on Nancy, but you have to admit she was irresponsible.

You may not, I am, I am a parent and I know how hard it is to be one, but quite frankly, the woman was either off the rails herself or was completely stupid, I suspect the latter. She wasn't alone in this, the father could be involved and if they wanted to get him committed, the guy had the firepower to do that. The guy is a senior executive at GE Capital in their tax office, I work with someone whose wife works in that division, the father is way, way up the food chain, he is making 7 figures, easily, and had the kind of legal help at his disposal that could get the kid into treatment, but apparently the wife didn't bother to ask him,

Every piece of evidence we have is that she was a stupid sack of shit, and if Oprah wants to claim she is a victim and the rest of the people saying she was a victim, I'll barf. I have heard advocates for the mental health community claiming Adam was a victim, that memorials should mention 28 victims, but that is crap. The kid went there to kill little kids, didn't give a crap, he knew it was wrong, he was wearing body armor, and he killed himself when he realized the cops were coming because he knew the consequences....I don't consider him a victim at all, to be honest.

As far as the mother, I don't want to hear how she was struggling to deal with him, it sounds to me like her answer was to let the kid around guns, shoot with him, and allow the kid to have a mess of weapons around that you wonder about them to to start with. She bought the kid the body armor (he didn't have money of his own), and she sat there while the kid spent most of the day playing violent video games in the basement of the house, and didn't wonder why the kid was doing nothing, doing that for years. My personal opinion she was a nut herself, the survivalist stuff alone, the reveling in gun ownership, smacks of that, but the key thing is she has a kid that a 6 year old child could tell was off, not normal, and she fed that, didn't get him help, sat there while he basically moldered for several years, and allowed him access to all kinds of weapons. She wasn't a victim, she was the poster child for someone with shit for brains, to say the least. I would be concerned if my son was into shoot em up games (he has had a couple, played them briefly, and thought they were hysterical), and all he did was play them day after day and he is normal (though after playing them like that, I wonder if a normal kid would come out straight, it can't be good for you), but she was oblivious to what he was doing. Yes, he was 20, but it was her house, and she could set the rules, but she didn't. And leaving the gun safe open, the weapons lying around the house? That is like leaving matches around a 5 year old and then sitting back and saying "I can't understand how the house burned down".

I don't have problems with gun ownership even though I choose not to, but I also think it is about time we had accountability for gun owners, too, for their stupidity. We have a lot more accountability with cars and boats then we do with guns, and that is idiotic.

I don't know where that came from, but it isn't true, that is typical of what passes for debate these days, can't come up with an answer, claim something stupid (I have met transgender people I think who were morons, but wasn't over doing things differently then myself, I have called them morons for judging other people). This isn't about a matter of style, Nancy Lanza had a kid who was off the rails, and it wasn't just being autistic, and if I put a case in front of a jury, few people would assume via the rational man logic that what she did was anything but moronic. She had a kid who had severe problems, couldn't function, and her answer was to let him sit there day after day playing violent video games, she gave him body armor, took the kid shooting, apparently gave him money to buy his own gun, let him have access to the guns (explain to me the opened gun safe), and you consider that responsible parenting? Not to mention a house full of knives, swords, etc? This isn't s disagreement over parenting styles, this is plain old fashioned stupidity.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I've mentioned on several threads in the past that My girl child (now grown) was pretty tough to raise. As much as I was concerned about being the only adult in the house while MP was deployed for safety reasons, and a gun in the house would have leveled the playing field if we ever had a break in, I was actually more worried about the kid getting the gun. She got in My fireproof document safe more than once. All it took was her finding where I had the combination written down.

The gun safe wasn't going to stop Adam Lanza. Even if Nancy Lanza had made the same choice about not owning guns until Adam moved out, all that would mean would be that he would postpone whatever plan he had until after his twenty-first birthday. In a small classroom at close range, he didn't even need what he had to get off twenty-two shots at mostly young children. The only difference would have been the actual number of holes that he was able to get into each of the victims.

I honestly don't know if tougher gun laws would have prevented Sandy Hook. Have a good look at illegal gun sales.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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A knife in kitchen is used to make food

If someone in your home is too dangerous to be allowed around firearms they can kill YOU with the buther knife only a strawman argument to those who actually believe that was a reference to the school shooting.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Again Ted Bundy is not a strawman he killed more than all the mass killings in the last decade and NEVER used a firearm. The point, for those too myopic to see it is that it is the evil intent that causes heinous crimes, not the tools they use.

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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A knife in kitchen is used to make food

If someone in your home is too dangerous to be allowed around firearms they can kill YOU with the buther knife only a strawman argument to those who actually believe that was a reference to the school shooting.

They might kill me, but they wouldn't be able to easily kill 26 people. It is a lot harder to kill someone with a knife, and with a knife, someone at the school could have disarmed him, used a fire extinguisher, because a knife is a short range weapon, unlike an AR15 or a handgun. Gun rights people love to point out that knives kill and cars kill, but the answer is that few people use cars to kill deliberately, too unwieldy, and with knives the numbers killed is a lot less then handguns, I don't have exact numbers, but 30,000 people a year die from guns, I don't think that many people die from knives, in part, because knives aren't that effective a weapon.

And I did say that if I had someone mentally ill living in my house, I would secure anything I could, though if I thought they were a danger of being violent to myself or others, I would probably be looking to get them help or placed somewhere. What is being left out of this is the scope of destruction, if he had access to kitchen knives, Lanza might have been able to kill a couple of people; with an AR15, he was able to kill 26 in <10 minutes,until the cops got there. If he had slower guns or a knife, it is also likely the kids would have been locked down by the time he could get near them.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Again Ted Bundy is not a strawman he killed more than all the mass killings in the last decade and NEVER used a firearm. The point, for those too myopic to see it is that it is the evil intent that causes heinous crimes, not the tools they use.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

They always catch the mass shooters.

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ORIGINAL: njlauren
There are a lot of issues here. If we didn't allow people to own weapons that can pump out hundreds of rounds a minute with large capacity magazines, it is likely that Newtown if Lanza had used a handgun would have been a lot better. He killed 26 people in a short period of time, he only had about 10 minutes before the cops showed up, and given the slower shooting rates of a handgun and the need to reload, plus also that a handgun, because of its slower reload capability, might have given adults more of a chance to protect the kids; an AR15 firing free fire gives no one a chance to try and stop the perp, with a handgun, they might have been able to, plus like I said, it takes something like an AR15 to kill 26 people in <10 minutes,he pumped out 150 shots I seem to recall.

As far as Adam Lanza goes, he might have done something assuming he actually could figure out how to support himself (keep in mind the kid was unemployable, he had no skills, no real education), it is not likely he would, he was already 20 and had moldered for how many years? It would have been a lot more difficult to do on his own, he would have needed money to live someplace, and he would have needed pretty good bucks to buy the kind of weapons his mom provided for him. A gun safe could have secured them, but it looks like it was either open or Adam knew the combination (the profile on the mom I have read indicates she saw things as her and Adam against the world). I know what they say about illegal weapons, but Adam Lanza wasn't exactly streetwise, the kid didn't seem to have any kind of survival skills, and despite popular myth you have to know where to buy illegal weapons, and it isn't that cheap, either. One note on illegal gun sales, if we hypothetically had a ban on things like the AR15, it is likely he wouldn't easly find them in the black market, if he could find one. A large percentage of weapons in the black market were bought legally, a lot of them by straw man buyers in states with lax gun laws, or by people abusing federal weapons permits, others are lost or stolen or 'given away' by gun owners.......

I would argue that left to his own devices, Adam couldn't have pulled this off, that the easy access his mother gave him to guns is what caused it to happen, and it was foolish and stupid to do so. A gun safe might have kept it out of his hands, but it looks to me like he probably had the combo to the safe, or mom left it open...but as you point out, he probably could have broken in, which raises questions about having them there in the first place.

Oh, I'm not arguing against that he had easiER access. He obviously did.

I do think too many folks are reading into things that haven't been proven as facts about this guy. There's lots of rumor and very little evidence. There have been "reports" (I hope My sarcasm is showing) that he supposedly tried to purchase weapons and was denied. Ok, where's the guy who the attempted purchase was supposedly made from and where's the reason for Adam Lanza to have failed a background check?

There is none. Do you know why? Because it's all a bunch of hype and it makes for good fodder when people want to use fear as a basis for a stance on the issue.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Everyword you said about Ted Bundy and his ilk is true about mass shooters.
The difference for every serial killer who gets caught early there is one,like Bundy who kill for years.
Desalvo 13 in Boston
Williams at least 44 in Atlanta
Bundy over one hundred all over the country
Romirez 20 something in LA
They always catch the mass shooters.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

So you want to restrict them where there is no problem in the hopes of slowing down bad guys in areas whwere they are misused.

I have an idea since it is the guns that are a problem send them to jail instead of the innocent people they lured into crime.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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A knife in kitchen is used to make food

If someone in your home is too dangerous to be allowed around firearms they can kill YOU with the buther knife only a strawman argument to those who actually believe that was a reference to the school shooting.

They might kill me, but they wouldn't be able to easily kill 26 people. It is a lot harder to kill someone with a knife, and with a knife, someone at the school could have disarmed him, used a fire extinguisher, because a knife is a short range weapon, unlike an AR15 or a handgun. Gun rights people love to point out that knives kill and cars kill, but the answer is that few people use cars to kill deliberately, too unwieldy, and with knives the numbers killed is a lot less then handguns, I don't have exact numbers, but 30,000 people a year die from guns, I don't think that many people die from knives, in part, because knives aren't that effective a weapon.

And I did say that if I had someone mentally ill living in my house, I would secure anything I could, though if I thought they were a danger of being violent to myself or others, I would probably be looking to get them help or placed somewhere. What is being left out of this is the scope of destruction, if he had access to kitchen knives, Lanza might have been able to kill a couple of people; with an AR15, he was able to kill 26 in <10 minutes,until the cops got there. If he had slower guns or a knife, it is also likely the kids would have been locked down by the time he could get near them.

Apparently you did not read far enough back to see the begining of this thread within a thread.
It bagan with a question about getting rid of your guns because someone in the house is too unstable to be around them, not if getting rid of them would have prevented Sandy Hook. At that point it becomes a question of personal safty. You cannot secure enough items in your house tokeep them from killing you in your sleep you have to deal with the unstable person.

People uneducated with firearms do not realize that he could have done the same with a 12 ga pump.
1 it is far more lethal than a .223
2 it would not reqiure second shots
3 it would fire 9 .32 prejectiles every time you pull the trigger so there would be no missses.

Next as much time as he spent online had he been deprived of firearms he could have learned to make bombs that would have killed far more.

Are you aware of the fact that in this country there are 2 times as many murders committed by blut instruments,
and 5 times as many with knifes as with rifles of all kinds.

Before you say but 26 at one time are you saying that 26 at one time is somehow worse than 130 one at at time.?

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ORIGINAL: njlauren

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Everyword you said about Ted Bundy and his ilk is true about mass shooters.
The difference for every serial killer who gets caught early there is one,like Bundy who kill for years.
Desalvo 13 in Boston
Williams at least 44 in Atlanta
Bundy over one hundred all over the country
Romirez 20 something in LA
They always catch the mass shooters.

Serial killers like that are rare, mass shootings are not