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RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/14/2013 7:33:41 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:


There is no difference between state and State, that is pure unadulterated asswipe having nothing to do with law or anything else in the world.







like taking candy from a baby




like laughing at the committed imbeciles.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/14/2013 1:36:27 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
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To the OP

This is what I love about technology. It is, in many ways, the ultimate expression of freedom. It permits people to have new and innovative ways to express that freedom.

Prior to the invention of the gun and the industrial revolution, the same arguments, today, about guns could be applied to swords. Historically, there was a lot of guffaw about carrying blades, banning blades, and carrying concealed blades. Some places banned them, people illegally possessed them, yada yada yada. While today there are still regulations regarding carrying blades around with regard to size, type, etc, there is little concern about them, with the exception of school properties. That lack of concern is due, in part, to the greater concern over the more dangerous gun, but also in part that you cannot regulate the availability of blades.

Anyone, even someone with a substandard brain, can create a blade now. Many years ago you may have needed to be trained blacksmith, or had access to, at the time, expensive and rare smithing tools and raw materials. Now, one can go the home depot and buy some grinding and cutting tools and length of steel and one can make a sword blade in a matter of minutes. A torch and bucket of water and you can temper the blade. A little ducttape and wood, you got a crude handle. Time for some hack and slash!!

The 3D printer and other home-manufacturing techniques will render the gun control debate as futile. Once the average schlub can start manufacturing guns, all the laws in the world are useless. However, while a 11th century person could have never imagined something as terrifying as a gun, we cannot necessarily imagine what kind of new personal destructive weapon is next. We can try, but after the many years of gun being the go to weapon for armed conflagration, something else will inevitably replace it and we can only guess at what that will be. And when it does, the focus will change, the gun will be seen as quaint toy of the days of yore, and we will be wishing we lived in the days when you only had to worry about school shootings.

While you can't ban the 3D printer any better than you can ban guns or cocaine, the real enemy you rail against is technology. If this scares you, you really have an issue with technology and its inevitable march. You can try and crush the creative spirit of mankind, but you will only be successful in stalling it. We can't even keep nukes out of the hands of loony jack-offs like North Korea, and soon Iran.

I for one, embrace technology, while it creates terrifying new threats, it also creates new and awesome solutions to our problems. While technology gave us the gun, it also gave us the bullet-proof vest. Maybe one day we can create everyday clothes that will protect us from small fires, stabbings and small arms fire. Who knows. With internet came a flow of information that led to a loss of innocence for everyone, but it liberated millions, and accelerated nearly every aspect of human life and creation.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/14/2013 2:42:08 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Historically, there was a lot of guffaw about carrying blades, banning blades, and carrying concealed blades.


Primarily, the interest in restricting blades was to prevent opposition to the entrenched organized powers. This remains the primary interest in restricting guns, though the entrenched powers are no longer seen as potential enemies of the people by most. And, of course, now it's possible to get people on the bandwagon despite the infinitesmal risk of being killed by guns, thanks in part to media and a culture of fear.

The rape rate in Norway is 0.203 per 1000 capita per annum, fifth in the world, which is about ten times the rate of gun homicide in the USA. Yet, our women don't go around worrying about it. The culture of fear hasn't taken hold, despite ample efforts by media in recent years. As a result, we haven't banned penises yet, and the effort to push for making all male citizens register their DNA registry has been unsuccessful so far, with civil liberties ranking as more important.

Can you imagine what things would be like here, if we reacted to rape the same way we react to gun crime?

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/14/2013 2:50:58 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
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It would be insane. The rates of all kinds of violent crimes are higher than gun crime in the US and we do little about it. The back log of rapes kits is in the 10s of thousands, not for the nation but just for some cities here!!! The gun control debate is misplaced rage on a notion that we can control some form of chaos.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 1:27:46 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
The rates of all kinds of violent crimes are higher than gun crime in the US and we do little about it.
Can I see the data?
I would like to compare: Murder / Kill crimes (one kind).
With: Crimes (of all kinds, of course) made with guns ("gun crime").
Thank you!


_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 8:08:55 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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johnny come lately, search it, you missed the party lol

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 8:13:58 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:


There is no difference between state and State, that is pure unadulterated asswipe having nothing to do with law or anything else in the world.







like taking candy from a baby




like laughing at the committed imbeciles.




well I try not to laugh at imbeciles though.

Sometimes people "state" the most ignorant shit! Often its people from the State of Minneesotahahaha who engage in pure bullshit as a result of their eternal state of confusion. Fortunately THE "STATE" OF MINNEESOTAHAHA doesnt sue for such transgressions of the language.

Therefore rockers we can conclude that proper nouns, pronouns, nouns and verbs all carry the same meaning. well not to mention that estate in the creation of States, was magically transformed to commingle and unlawfully convert the private man to (public) government entity without disclosure to steal jurisdiction and create fictitious overlords by syntax terrorism and deceit)

yep obfuscation says its all the same.

The US courts survival and livelihood depends on it!








_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 8:17:08 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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To extend and revise my remarks:  There is no difference between state, State, and STATE.

The Issue with all caps has to do with IBM mainframes, for sorting.  That's all, and it is no longer necessary.   They have 3D printers now.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 8:40:39 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
no you are putting the chicken before the egg again.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 8:46:44 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Historically, there was a lot of guffaw about carrying blades, banning blades, and carrying concealed blades.


Primarily, the interest in restricting blades was to prevent opposition to the entrenched organized powers. This remains the primary interest in restricting guns, though the entrenched powers are no longer seen as potential enemies of the people by most. And, of course, now it's possible to get people on the bandwagon despite the infinitesmal risk of being killed by guns, thanks in part to media and a culture of fear.

The rape rate in Norway is 0.203 per 1000 capita per annum, fifth in the world, which is about ten times the rate of gun homicide in the USA. Yet, our women don't go around worrying about it. The culture of fear hasn't taken hold, despite ample efforts by media in recent years. As a result, we haven't banned penises yet, and the effort to push for making all male citizens register their DNA registry has been unsuccessful so far, with civil liberties ranking as more important.

Can you imagine what things would be like here, if we reacted to rape the same way we react to gun crime?

IWYW,
— Aswad.




People always defended themselves with anything available in the event of an attack against their person.

however due to violent take overs by other groups people originally banded together and made agreements to defend each other in case of an attack.

this of course has grown into massive police industry that is constantly threatened by such things they cannot easily police (regulate).

such as plastic guns. a felon is not listed in the constitution as a person who is not eligible to bear an arm.

Modern technology simply made is easier than buying a machine shop to produce a gun

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 8:48:17 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
And then there were 3D printers.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 9:35:32 AM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
The rates of all kinds of violent crimes are higher than gun crime in the US and we do little about it.
Can I see the data?
I would like to compare: Murder / Kill crimes (one kind).
With: Crimes (of all kinds, of course) made with guns ("gun crime").
Thank you!




Let me restate: Higher than gun homicide. I don't know about the rest nor care to find out as those numbers are not easy to ferret out (what weapon etc), that was the only thing I was refering to. However, the assualt rate is much higher and, unless it is assault with a deadly weapon, that rate does not include firearms.

Really I don't want my point distracted with this tangent. My whole point was: Post 82

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 12:17:01 PM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
The rates of all kinds of violent crimes are higher than gun crime in the US and we do little about it.

Let me restate: Higher than gun homicide.
So, a special kind of the less frequent crime, is less frequent as all other kinds of violent crime.
That's not very surprising, isn't it?
But I try again: Do you have numbers of incestuous rape between people older than 70? It's a kind of violent crime. Are they higher as gun homicide?
My point is that your sentence was meaningless. Everybody here chooses his point freely. IMHO your sentence was not only meaningless, it was dangerous, suggesting that gun crimes (now murder) are somehow irrelevant in the USA. Which they are, absolutely, not. So, if you admit that that sentence was meaningless, I let it be. If not, I ask you, and of course you can ignore me...

_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 12:28:54 PM   
FunCouple5280


Posts: 559
Joined: 10/30/2012
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If you want to take one sentence out of context and ignore the entire argument, you will not get the satisfaction of diverting my attention.

The point is that of the roughly 1.2 million total violent crimes commited in the US every year only about 10 thousand are gun murders (0.8% of all crime). It show we have a major crime problem, and not gun problem. Therefor this constant wimpering that this is the forfront issue for a safer America is patent Bull-Shit. Dealing with poverty, drugs and education would slash the crime rate big time. But these issues are difficult and lengthy things to fix. Gun control is a lazy ass way of diverting the attention from the cronic problems this country faces.

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 1:07:33 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
The rates of all kinds of violent crimes are higher than gun crime in the US and we do little about it.

Let me restate: Higher than gun homicide.
So, a special kind of the less frequent crime, is less frequent as all other kinds of violent crime.
That's not very surprising, isn't it?
But I try again: Do you have numbers of incestuous rape between people older than 70? It's a kind of violent crime. Are they higher as gun homicide?
My point is that your sentence was meaningless. Everybody here chooses his point freely. IMHO your sentence was not only meaningless, it was dangerous, suggesting that gun crimes (now murder) are somehow irrelevant in the USA. Which they are, absolutely, not. So, if you admit that that sentence was meaningless, I let it be. If not, I ask you, and of course you can ignore me...


So you take one sentence out of context and try to blow up the whole point?


(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/15/2013 8:08:29 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

To the OP

This is what I love about technology. It is, in many ways, the ultimate expression of freedom. It permits people to have new and innovative ways to express that freedom.

I for one, embrace technology, while it creates terrifying new threats, it also creates new and awesome solutions to our problems. While technology gave us the gun, it also gave us the bullet-proof vest. Maybe one day we can create everyday clothes that will protect us from small fires, stabbings and small arms fire. Who knows. With internet came a flow of information that led to a loss of innocence for everyone, but it liberated millions, and accelerated nearly every aspect of human life and creation.




yeh the net rocks, loss of innocence is an understatement.

lookee whats around the corner!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=sUbIhbg08uI&feature=endscreen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cJv4O2zEOw


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/16/2013 2:07:47 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
The rates of all kinds of violent crimes are higher than gun crime in the US and we do little about it.

Let me restate: Higher than gun homicide.
So, a special kind of the less frequent crime, is less frequent as all other kinds of violent crime.
That's not very surprising, isn't it?
But I try again: Do you have numbers of incestuous rape between people older than 70? It's a kind of violent crime. Are they higher as gun homicide?
My point is that your sentence was meaningless. Everybody here chooses his point freely. IMHO your sentence was not only meaningless, it was dangerous, suggesting that gun crimes (now murder) are somehow irrelevant in the USA. Which they are, absolutely, not. So, if you admit that that sentence was meaningless, I let it be. If not, I ask you, and of course you can ignore me...
So you take one sentence out of context and try to blow up the whole point?
No, I don't.


_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/16/2013 2:25:16 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280
If you want to take one sentence out of context and ignore the entire argument, you will not get the satisfaction of diverting my attention.
The point is that of the roughly 1.2 million total violent crimes commited in the US every year only about 10 thousand are gun murders (0.8% of all crime). It show we have a major crime problem, and not gun problem.
Just because I concentrate in what calls my attention does not mean that I want to distract you. I could tell you the same, that you are distracting my attention from your sentence to something else. That's superfluously aggressive and a wrong supposition.

But ok - no, it absolutely does not "show" this, your logic is extremely wrong.

* First, because you assume that the other violent crimes are not part of the "gun problem", that is, that aggravated assaults (for example, 62% of violent crimes) are never done with a gun. Which is plain wrong.
* Second, because it could be sound to concentrate on murder above other kinds of crime, due to its consequences. Rendering the importance of the "non-gun" crimes in other categories less important.
* Third, because if the crime rates of other developed crimes is similar, then the US would still have no particular "crime problem" regardless the absolute number... and an interesting corollary... if the "total crimes" - "crimes made with guns" (see above) are BELOW the crime rate of other countries this would actually make possible the scenario where the "gun problem" is the REAL problem and the USA would be doing good if it were not for the guns. This scenario would also match the data you present.
* Fourth, because if the gun murders are much more frequent as in other developed countries, the US would have a "gun murder" problem anyway, regardless of it having a "crime problem" in general or not.

So: absolutely wrong logic. Non sequitur fallacy.

This besides the fact that I was really not asking you about your whole point, only about that sentence! Seriously! But now that you resume your point like this... it is heavily wrong.

Please realise that I am just analysing your sentences from a logical point of view, I am not saying that the US has "no" crime problem or "has" a gun problem. I am just saying that your conclusion does not derive from your premises. It is not a personal attack or something, it is an analysis.

Best regards.

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 5/16/2013 2:30:19 AM >


_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

(in reply to FunCouple5280)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: FEDS PANIC OVER 3D PLASTIC GUN - 5/20/2013 1:19:21 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
Ok... I guess you lost interest, FunCouple. Unsubscribing, please PM me if you answer here. See you!

_____________________________

Humanist (therefore Atheist), intelligent, cultivated and very humble :)
If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 99
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