quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called PRISM, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide PowerPoint presentation – classified as top secret with no distribution to foreign allies – which was apparently used to train intelligence operatives on the capabilities of the program. The document claims "collection directly from the servers" of major US service providers.

Although the presentation claims the program is run with the assistance of the companies, all those who responded to a Guardian request for comment on Thursday denied knowledge of any such program.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN
I am not from the United States.

But when did they (the United States) take your property, and for what reason?

And many see Canada as "Yankee Junior." Having visited both countries, I admit to seeing little difference either culturally, or how either government treats it's people. If anything the Canadian national government is more authoritarian that that of the United States, and more right wing in nature as well.

As far as the topic of this thread goes, Canada also routinely spies on it's internal dissidents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, I guess they really don't listen to the contents of the phone calls, hah?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, I guess they really don't listen to the contents of the phone calls, hah?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I would point out a few basic facts:

1) There has been no right to privacy ruling in any court concerning the internet.

2) Prism is not the first program designed to mine data from people using the internet.

3) The NSA is tasked with electronic intelligence, meaning cell phones, radio communication and the internet. As is other agencies in other countries around the world.

The simple truth is that before Prism there was another program that just looked for key words, names and locations in emails to flag the message for further examination. The problem with that program, and Prism for that matter, is that the shear volume of intelligence is so large that there is no way it all can be examined.

Computers are fallible, so depending on a computer to decide what is and what isnt a viable terrorist message is just insane. And if the NSA hired and trained enough people to examine and determine if every flagged message is or is not a threat, well there would be no unemployment in the US.

Face it, genuine emails are sent by around 1.9 billion email users, with another 290 billion emails sent as spam and viruses, and that is per day. Those are 2010 numbers.

Honestly, with those numbers, are you really worried that the NSA can even examine a tenth of the volume in a given day? And if you really want to consider the possibility that your email or search is going to raise a flag, figure the odds on your message or activity being flagged when the entire amount of daily internet traffic is considered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I have nothing to hide. Flash back to J Edgar Hoover- he had files
on Marilyn Monroe, Elvis Presley, John Lennon- among others. Seeing
the redacted files today is a quaint look at manual typewriter- an era
where the punch card had yet to be invented. A computer took the size
of a full room. Flash to the Hollywood black list- witch hunt- for
communists- by the committee on unamerican activities. If your name
was on this black list you never worked in that town again. It wasn't
that proof was needed- but guilt by association.

Most of us have no memory of WW2. But many of us DO remember the cold
war. My kin is veterans in every war- right down to the civil war,
and the American revolution. In my lifetime tho- we fought
totalitarian. Command and control- centralization of government
power. Enter in Robber Baron Mega corporations and too big to jail.
In 1989 the iron curtain fell and people were jubilant- there was
talk of a peace dividend. Happy days for all- FREEDOM won! Well
somehow the peace dividend never happened.


9-11 happened. People cried for something to happen. The patriot
act was on the shelf already prewrote- why would someone pre-write
such an onerous law? Why was it so convenient to push it thru.
Hysteria ensued- a 9-11 commission was formed so it would never
happen again. 10 of of 12 commissioners later renounced this report.
In addition, 47 pages were blacked out.


So now law makers who- (laws are prewrote by robber barrons) the
congress does not read what they vote for. ...flash - to big to
jail.

What happened with Edward Snowden is a watershed moment in our lifetime.
You reading this are low on the food chain- but I assure you I know
others higher up on the food chain. So now we have 100,000
government wonks- that at a click of a button can bring up 1000x
more then J Edgar Hoover could. Your HIPPA, IRS, Banking, credit card
purchases- every email. phone call you ever did- in real time.

Enter in the movers and shakers of the world.

Lets say out of 100,000 wonks- 10% of them will obey- cave into
devious pursuits. That is 10,000 wonks identifying, locating, and
slapping red tape pressure or worse- in an effort to gain, trade
secrets, campaign plots, the AP was snooped on the IRS came after
certain people. Lawyers, judges, governors, congress, people who
effect public policy and your quality life is being STOLEN by
corporate robber barons.

McCarthyism is back. Black lists are back. The culprits are too big to jail.

The spying can care less that you look at cat posts, porn, and
nonsense. They want the movers and shakers who decide policy for
every one of us- and we need to get to the bottom of this. If we
dont- it really is- game over.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Honestly, with those numbers, are you really worried that the NSA can even examine a tenth of the volume in a given day?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
The spying can care less that you look at cat posts, porn, and nonsense. They want the movers and shakers who decide policy for every one of us- and we need to get to the bottom of this. If we dont- it really is- game over.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Honestly, with those numbers, are you really worried that the NSA can even examine a tenth of the volume in a given day?

Absolutely. You seriously need to go find someone who is a big data architect and ask him this question. As long as you operate from a basis of incorrect understanding then your conclusions will never be accurate. There is ZERO question as to what could be done with this data. We are only discussing whether they will do it or not... and if so when.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Honestly, with those numbers, are you really worried that the NSA can even examine a tenth of the volume in a given day?

Absolutely. You seriously need to go find someone who is a big data architect and ask him this question. As long as you operate from a basis of incorrect understanding then your conclusions will never be accurate. There is ZERO question as to what could be done with this data. We are only discussing whether they will do it or not... and if so when.

quote:

But it's not at all tricky for the government, as Eric Lichtblau and James Risen of the New York Times reported in this Pulitzer-Prize winning story in 2005:

As part of the program approved by President Bush for domestic surveillance without warrants, the N.S.A. has gained the cooperation of American telecommunications companies to obtain backdoor access to streams of domestic and international communications, the officials said.

Over the weekend Lichtblau and Risen reported that Verizon has "set up a dedicated fiber-optic line running from New Jersey to Quantico, Va., home to a large military base, allowing government officials to gain access to all communications flowing through the carrier’s operations center."

CYBER EXPERT: The NSA Has The Means And Motive To Spy On Everyone