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RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 2:32:03 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hrxxx


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

my experience tells me that you may well experience TPE and no limits with a slave you've never met before


Never met.. and they are willing to say to you "Do what you want?"


Have you ever had a BDSM relationship with strangers?


I never had a BDSM relationship. I dont do strictly play. I have had Master - slave relationships. And I never submitted completely on the first day.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to hrxxx)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 7:27:25 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hrxxx


What you're saying is that it is not possible to be a master on a playdate? my experience tells me that you may well experience TPE and no limits with a slave you've never met before, and whether it's playdate or 24/7 do you agree on the conditions underlying the relationship, so you can be master from the first night.

What happens in a slave's head, a master plants seeds in his slave's head, a slave has many thoughts and fantasy about what has happened, and what is going to happen if you google slave diary or blog, I am sure you can learn all about it



Then you've met a "slave" with a death wish. EVERYONE has limits unless they want to die.

_____________________________

No longer searching -- found my one and only right here on CM


(in reply to hrxxx)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 7:30:04 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		I haven't the foggiest idea. Dom, Alpha, Master, Sir. All semantics to me.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 7:32:19 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hrxxx
But whatever is the slave need to give themselves to you first.

Really? More accurately you're not thinking of the same D/s that she (and I) do. You are thinking of what I call "D/s by agreement". Loosely speaking that's where two people come together and they are roughly equal in terms of dominance. By agreement they separate into two roles and then go about their merry way. Ishtar is saying this isn't slavery. I disagree since I'm the practical sort and I'm more interested in results than mental states. The other option is D/s by native personality. A more manipulative/charismatic/dominant personality contacts a more malleable/susceptible/submissive personality and... well... manipulates them. That's how I see D/s and it doesn't require any agreements and it's not limited to my intimate family relationships.

In the end, what is and is not <insert BDSM label X> here is just one of those things that is unanswerable. Everyone defines it differently enough that the labels are utterly meaningless. What's more interesting is the paragraph or two you get AFTER they introduce themselves with their label. I don't really care whether someone I meet somewhere is a "true master". I care whether they are fun to hang around. I care whether they have a partner or not. IF they do have one, I care about the vibes that relationship gives off. Beyond that, I'm interested in the dynamic they have but I recognize that each will be unique. They can hang whatever label they want onto it and I don't care because I'm more interested in the terrain than the map.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to hrxxx)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 7:35:54 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir
Then you've met a "slave" with a death wish. EVERYONE has limits unless they want to die.

Wow. Now THERE is an interesting leap in logic. Let's just be clear here. I would die for Carol in a heart beat and I would also trust her if she told me I had to do so. I'm pretty sure I love life and I have no death wish. Heck, I'm not even what you'd call particularly submissive. I'm just wildly in love and I trust her a great deal. That's a positive spin on "being commanded to suicide". A much less positive spin is Jonestown... none of whom had a death wish. People have died for their leaders throughout history in a wide variety of circumstances (think military) without having a death wish -- almost always without having a clear idea whey they are dying. I just think it takes an appropriately charismatic leader not necessarily a suicidal slave.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 7:58:43 AM   
hrxxx


Posts: 294
Joined: 5/13/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: hrxxx


What you're saying is that it is not possible to be a master on a playdate? my experience tells me that you may well experience TPE and no limits with a slave you've never met before, and whether it's playdate or 24/7 do you agree on the conditions underlying the relationship, so you can be master from the first night.

What happens in a slave's head, a master plants seeds in his slave's head, a slave has many thoughts and fantasy about what has happened, and what is going to happen if you google slave diary or blog, I am sure you can learn all about it



Then you've met a "slave" with a death wish. EVERYONE has limits unless they want to die.


Now I speak only from my own experience, and can not say how others are doing or not doing.

You will find the slaves limits within my limits, there are certain things I will not do, and the limits I go through with the slave, so when she comes she has no limits because her limits to exceed my limits.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 8:20:54 AM   
hrxxx


Posts: 294
Joined: 5/13/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: hrxxx
But whatever is the slave need to give themselves to you first.

Really? More accurately you're not thinking of the same D/s that she (and I) do. You are thinking of what I call "D/s by agreement". Loosely speaking that's where two people come together and they are roughly equal in terms of dominance. By agreement they separate into two roles and then go about their merry way. Ishtar is saying this isn't slavery. I disagree since I'm the practical sort and I'm more interested in results than mental states. The other option is D/s by native personality. A more manipulative/charismatic/dominant personality contacts a more malleable/susceptible/submissive personality and... well... manipulates them. That's how I see D/s and it doesn't require any agreements and it's not limited to my intimate family relationships.

In the end, what is and is not <insert BDSM label X> here is just one of those things that is unanswerable. Everyone defines it differently enough that the labels are utterly meaningless. What's more interesting is the paragraph or two you get AFTER they introduce themselves with their label. I don't really care whether someone I meet somewhere is a "true master". I care whether they are fun to hang around. I care whether they have a partner or not. IF they do have one, I care about the vibes that relationship gives off. Beyond that, I'm interested in the dynamic they have but I recognize that each will be unique. They can hang whatever label they want onto it and I don't care because I'm more interested in the terrain than the map.


I disagree even if a dominant manipulate you to become a slave, you do so of your own free will, and it is a gift you give to the dominant. That after you have given yourself to the dominant, things can change.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 9:06:54 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir
Then you've met a "slave" with a death wish. EVERYONE has limits unless they want to die.

Wow. Now THERE is an interesting leap in logic. Let's just be clear here. I would die for Carol in a heart beat and I would also trust her if she told me I had to do so. I'm pretty sure I love life and I have no death wish. Heck, I'm not even what you'd call particularly submissive. I'm just wildly in love and I trust her a great deal. That's a positive spin on "being commanded to suicide". A much less positive spin is Jonestown... none of whom had a death wish. People have died for their leaders throughout history in a wide variety of circumstances (think military) without having a death wish -- almost always without having a clear idea whey they are dying. I just think it takes an appropriately charismatic leader not necessarily a suicidal slave.



Carol is your wife. He was talking about a playing with a stranger who had "no limits".

Were you willing to die for Carol the day you met her?

_____________________________

No longer searching -- found my one and only right here on CM


(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 9:14:20 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hrxxx
I disagree even if a dominant manipulate you to become a slave, you do so of your own free will, and it is a gift you give to the dominant. That after you have given yourself to the dominant, things can change.

*nods* And that is the viewpoint of someone who, in my own words, does not believe in dominance and submission. I happen to think those words have real meanings at the core personality level. What's going on here is an entirely different conceptual model. There will never be "agreement".

I do agree with a part of what you said. A slave mentality enslaves itself "of it's own free will"... because it has no choice because a fish can be none other than a fish.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to hrxxx)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 10:31:11 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I disagree even if a dominant manipulate you to become a slave, you do so of your own free will, and it is a gift you give to the dominant. That after you have given yourself to the dominant, things can change.


Manipulation tends to take the "free will" out of the equation.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to hrxxx)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 10:32:37 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Ishtar is saying this isn't slavery.


Nah I didn't. I said is't not mastery. Whether or not she is a slave depends on the girl's headspace.
However, mastery is certainly is not. And even if she is a slave, what she definitively is not is his slave.

Getting a gift bestowed upon you makes you a subject to the relationship dynamic, not the agent. It makes the gift giver the agent, and therefore also the one in complete control.

Claiming that receiving a gift from somebody else makes you a master over anything is ludicrous.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 10:51:43 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Nah I didn't. I said is't not mastery.

Uppity free women!

:)

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 12:22:29 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Getting a gift bestowed upon you makes you a subject to the relationship dynamic, not the agent. It makes the gift giver the agent, and therefore also the one in complete control.

Claiming that receiving a gift from somebody else makes you a master over anything is ludicrous.


I never got any of that either. The men in my life have always said mastering me was hard work, and well worth the work.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: What the difference between Dominant and Master. - 6/14/2013 1:07:28 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

What you're saying is that it is not possible to be a master on a playdate? my experience tells me that you may well experience TPE and no limits with a slave you've never met before, and whether it's playdate or 24/7 do you agree on the conditions underlying the relationship, so you can be master from the first night.


Sorry, if it's a playdate, you're the top, not the master.

That someone agrees, after negotiation, to be obedient to someone for a proscribed amount of time does not make that person a master. It does not make the person agreeing a slave, tpe slave or any other kind. It makes the two top and bottom. That's it.

To be someone's dominant means taking a certain amount of actual responsibility for them. Not for five minutes or a few hours, but for the long haul.

It doesn't mean the two can't break up, but if they do, the dominant is still required, in my mind, to do everything they can to ensure the well being of the sub until said sub is happy and healthy, both emotionally and physically, on their own. If that's not possible, and sometimes it's not, then the dom has to acknowledge that they made a bad choice in submissive, b/c they didn't choose someone who was whole to begin with.

Again, this is my opinion, YMMV.

_____________________________



(in reply to hrxxx)
Profile   Post #: 114
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