RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court

RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 12:17:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: thomas thinks illegals pay taxes when in fact they do not. not in the sense that you and I do. You are right. When they pay in via their wages, like most citizens do, they dont get to file a tax return, the government keeps that money, free and clear, no one to make a claim on it for a tax return. As to the "other" taxes, they pay the exact same as you or anyone else in this country. Shocking, I know. If what you said was true- I would want them to stay- as they would be contributing members of society. Unfortunately you are incorrect when you claim that they pay their fair share.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 12:18:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Hill- his argument presumes that these illegal voters- pay any tax. The only tax they pay is when it is forced- they do not pay taxes the type that are voluntary. So you can not have that argument with him due to the false asssumption that illegals pay tax. Hunky, would you please translate that to English? thomas thinks illegals pay taxes when in fact they do not. not in the sense that you and I do. If they aren't paid in cash, they pay withholding. Chicken packing houses, large farms and other agribusiness don't have that much cash on hand so they're paid by check and tax is withheld. Typically, that withholding is to a stolen or fake SSN. That way, the employer has 'plausible deniability'. They cannot get a refund like the rest of us do. The Government keeps the money. That's one reason I feel that both parties winked at the illegal alien 'problem' for decades. The agribusiness lobby has paid them a lot of money to do so. I already posted this here. You must not have been paying attention. They pay sales taxes, gas taxes, cigarette and alcohol taxes and about every other kind.

tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 12:20:46 PM)
quote: If what you said was true- I would want them to stay- as they would be contributing members of society. Unfortunately you are incorrect when you claim that they pay their fair share. Let me explain this to you. Or at least try. When an employer doesnt pay someone their wages correctly, there are complaints made to various agencies. Those agencies call Wage Commission, each state has one. Wage Commission comes in and does an audit. At which time, if Wage Commission finds an illegal, they can, if they so choose, contact ICE. Employers of illegals understand this process. They do what they have to do to stay under ICE's radar. Most of the payroll from illegals are correct. The busts you hear about is those few idiots who think they can just avoid those payroll taxes as employers.... they cant. So, yes, these people ARE paying in their legal, fair share.

RacerJim -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 12:20:46 PM)
Supreme Court ruling "The NVRA permits a State to request the EAC to include state specific instructions on the Federal Form, see 42 U. S. C. §1973gg–7(a)(2), and a State may challenge the EAC’s rejection of that request(or failure to act on it) in a suit under the Administrative Procedure Act. That alternative means of enforcing its constitutional power to determine voting qualifications remains open to Arizona here. Should the EAC reject or decline to act on a renewed request, Arizona would have the opportunity to establish in a reviewing court that a mere oath will not suffice to effectuate its citizenship requirement and that the EAC is therefore under a nondiscretionary duty to include Arizona’s concrete-evidence requirement on the Federal Form. Pp. 13–17. 677 F. 3d 383, affirmed." Bottom-line...Arizona (et al States) is permitted to do what it really wants to do, it will just have to it another way.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 12:25:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Nope. I said if we stop ripping them off, they may not try to vote. Two big problems: a) statistics prove that they are ripping us off, and; b) they not only refuse to assimilate into OUR culture/traditions and speak OUR language but they demand WE acquiesce to their culture/traditions and speak THEIR language. Then, let's clean a coupla Million non English-speaking Republicans out of Miami. If they're ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS I'll help. They came here under a strange rule called "foot dry". Any other nationality doing what they did would be illegal. Wanna know why they got the special privilege to come here and be immediately subsidized? They vote almost exclusively Republican so St Ronnie made sure that they got taken care of. My question is and always has been. Why should those from Cuba be treated differently from any of the other 200 odd countries on the planet? The only sensible answer I can find is "They vote Republican so St Ronnie took care of them". During the mid 80's, they didn't even have to get feet dry. The coast guard patrolled the FL straits and picked them up and brought them to Miami. I don't think it's any coincidence that the crime rate in Miami increased exponentially from 1979 to the mid 80's but we rolled out the welcome mat for those folks. in 1980, 125,000 assorted dissidents, felons and mental patients were dumped into Miami. what did we do? We rolled out the welcome mat. Why? They're potential Republican voters.

papassion -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 1:38:13 PM)
First off, there is a way for noncitizens to file tax returns. They are ITINS forms. And illegals are reaping BILLIONS in refunds. Lots ILLEGAL. samjohnson.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?documentid=329254

pahunkboy -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 1:44:59 PM)
There are more of them the Chicago and New York COMBINED

mnottertail -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 1:57:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion First off, there is a way for noncitizens to file tax returns. They are ITINS forms. And illegals are reaping BILLIONS in refunds. Lots ILLEGAL. samjohnson.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?documentid=329254 quote: samjohnson.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?documentid=329254 Ja, I think there is some Sun Myung Moon and teabagger felching combined. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7.pdf So, somebody has to show some documents somewhere.

tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 2:04:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion First off, there is a way for noncitizens to file tax returns. They are ITINS forms. And illegals are reaping BILLIONS in refunds. Lots ILLEGAL. samjohnson.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?documentid=329254 Do you know who is issued an ITIN number and why?

cloudboy -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 2:43:21 PM)
This is kind of stupid b/c there's no incentive for foreigners to try and cast one meaningless vote in an election while risking all the penalties for election fraud.

pahunkboy -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 4:09:37 PM)
Tazz- if they were such big contributors to our society- why doesnt the congressional budget office say so? Flawed papers to vote in a money tree for this or any other group of people is wrong. You can not vote use the cover of govt- to use force to redistribute the fruits of ones labor.

tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 4:36:23 PM)
Flawed paper to vote? LOL.... Since 1996, the only benefit these people could claim is the Child Tax Credit... of which those children.. per the IRS site... Question: Can I claim the child tax credit for a child who has an ITIN, rather than a social security number? Answer: Yes, you can claim the child tax credit for a child with an ITIN (individual tax identification number) if you otherwise qualify. Refer to "Child tax credits" in the index to the Instructions for Form 1040 or Instructions for Form 1040A for an explanation of who qualifies for the child tax credit, and how to calculate it. Additionally, the child must not have attained the age of 17-years by the end of the tax year and be either a citizen, national, or resident of the United States. Attach Schedule 8812 (Form 1040A or 1040) (PDF), Child Tax Credit, to Form 1040 (PDF), 1040A (PDF) or 1040NR (PDF). Thats it. No EITC, no Social Security, Medicare or other federal benefits, except for emergency medical treatment in hospitals. Thats it.. a 1000 dollar credit per child who is legally here.

pahunkboy -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 4:39:55 PM)
If over 11 million illegals was good for the 17 trillion $ deficit- dont you think the govt would bally hoo- just how good it all is for us? Most of those 11 million are on welfare. They are on programs. I think programs ought to only be for Americans. In fact- if you cut off the programs for illegals- I would be willing to let more in.

thompsonx -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 4:42:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy They are backed by laraza, and Azlam. The goal is to return 4 US states to Mexico. Is that a bad thing?

thompsonx -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 4:45:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark Hill, how does the EC give any undocumented people a vote? If we can only guess as to the number of undocumented aliens within the country, and they don't register to vote, do they actually increase representation for an area? I would wonder how many of those folks participate in the census? Undocumented aliens and illegals are fairly well accounted for in population estimates. The EC is based on the total number of representatives in congress. The number of reps in congress is based on total population estimate, not citizen population. Based on some calculations I did in another thread, there are 12 EC votes just from California that represent non citizens. weird huh? They can't vote but their 'vote' counts. The math is good but the premis is flawed. The e/c is chosen by the state legislatures which the illegals had no voice in electing.

thompsonx -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 4:46:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub So you believe that someone who comes into this country illegally and works and pays taxes should have the right to vote? The founders thought so..."no taxation without representation" Unless you live in DC[8D] Did the founders have a reason for that? Are those reasons still valid? I don't know or care. I'm simply stating a fact. Self imposed ignorance is it's own reward.

tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 4:48:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy If over 11 million illegals was good for the 17 trillion $ deficit- dont you think the govt would bally hoo- just how good it all is for us? Most of those 11 million are on welfare. They are on programs. I think programs ought to only be for Americans. In fact- if you cut off the programs for illegals- I would be willing to let more in. So you are saying that the 11 million illegals are responsible for the 17 trillion in our national debt? And speaking of Americans only being eligible, does this mean their American born children are or are not eligible by your standards?

pahunkboy -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 4:49:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy They are backed by laraza, and Azlam. The goal is to return 4 US states to Mexico. Is that a bad thing? You pose a good question. One the one hand- I support local control- a locale has the right to self determination. On the other hand- it would not be a good thing to lose portions of 4 states. In addition- those states require the permission of all 50 states AND any other party in the contract.

thompsonx -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 4:51:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Hill- his argument presumes that these illegal voters- pay any tax. The only tax they pay is when it is forced- they do not pay taxes the type that are voluntary. So you can not have that argument with him due to the false asssumption that illegals pay tax. It is the employers obligation to keep the books and deduct the appropriate taxes not the worker. How is the employer not remiting the taxes to the govt the employee's fault. He worked and had the taxes deducted,the employer did not send the money to the tax collector. Then of course how does one get out of property tax or sales tax or excise tax?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Arizona voter registration law illegal - US Supreme Court (6/18/2013 4:51:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Self imposed ignorance is it's own reward. No, I simply state facts. I do not attempt to divine the reasons for the actions of gentlemen who are well over a century in their graves. To do so would be the ultimate in hubris. I assume you are familiar with that state of being.[:D]

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