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Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 10:48:19 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Despite espionage charges, he's not headed for the United States.

http://news.yahoo.com/former-nsa-contractor-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-080843121.html

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 6/23/2013 10:49:32 AM >

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 11:51:15 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		did you really expect him to?

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 11:54:54 AM   
MissToYouRedux


Posts: 867
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Status: offline 		Maybe she meant to say

quote:

Because of espionage charges, he's not headed for the United States.


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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 12:00:44 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissToYouRedux

Maybe she meant to say

quote:

Because of espionage charges, he's not headed for the United States.


anyone with half a brain would expect charges at some point (gee, why do you think he left the US in the first place?), and he has previously stated he did not expect a fair trial in the US.. so why would he come back?

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 12:05:58 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

did you really expect him to?


Yes, just not willingly. Hong Kong is saying the paperwork the US sent isn't good enough.

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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 12:07:46 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissToYouRedux

Maybe she meant to say

quote:

Because of espionage charges, he's not headed for the United States.



No, it's called sarcasm.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 12:10:16 PM   
MissToYouRedux


Posts: 867
Joined: 1/23/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissToYouRedux

Maybe she meant to say

quote:

Because of espionage charges, he's not headed for the United States.


anyone with half a brain would expect charges at some point (gee, why do you think he left the US in the first place?), and he has previously stated he did not expect a fair trial in the US.. so why would he come back?


I don't know... but some people have put idealism over pragmatism.

RE: Daniel Ellsberg

"On June 28, 1971, two days before a Supreme Court ruling saying that a federal judge had ruled incorrectly about the right of the New York Times to publish the Pentagon Papers,[6] Ellsberg publicly surrendered to the United States Attorney's Office for the District of Massachusetts in Boston. In admitting to giving the documents to the press, Ellsberg said:
I felt that as an American citizen, as a responsible citizen, I could no longer cooperate in concealing this information from the American public. I did this clearly at my own jeopardy and I am prepared to answer to all the consequences of this decision.[6]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg


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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 12:33:36 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissToYouRedux

I don't know... but some people have put idealism over pragmatism.

RE: Daniel Ellsberg

"On June 28, 1971, two days before a Supreme Court ruling saying that a federal judge had ruled incorrectly about the right of the New York Times to publish the Pentagon Papers,[6] Ellsberg publicly surrendered to the United States Attorney's Office for the District of Massachusetts in Boston. In admitting to giving the documents to the press, Ellsberg said:
I felt that as an American citizen, as a responsible citizen, I could no longer cooperate in concealing this information from the American public. I did this clearly at my own jeopardy and I am prepared to answer to all the consequences of this decision.[6]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg


40+ years ago is not today, THAT was a different world, today you have considerably lessor rights due to 9/11 & the govt pulling the noose around your necks tighter and tighter (I speak figuratively).. NOW he could be thrown in jail using unlimited detention even without a lawyer or trial.. and if you dont think the US govt would ever do that, why do you think they have created this law otherwise?

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 12:37:01 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

did you really expect him to?


Yes, just not willingly. Hong Kong is saying the paperwork the US sent isn't good enough.

yes, I know.. and Russia says that cuz he has not actually entered Russia (he is staying in the loading area as he transfers planes), they also can not hold him or give him to the US..

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 12:38:43 PM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I think that surrendering to authorities made Ellsburg look more credible as a whistle-blower, and going on trial allowed the whole thing to get more publicity. I suppose, though, he also trusted that he would have a public trial in a court of law.

Snowden is losing credibility by fleeing to other countries, but at the same time, to give him the benefit of the doubt.... I don't think it's unreasonable for him to suspect that he would not get a public trial. Or any kind of trial.

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 12:53:12 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		as far as his credibility goes, why does him leaving the US to find sanctuary lessen his credibility? he does not trust the US govt, why would he stay? If he had been a less principled person he would have just kept his mouth shut (like his co-workers have) and kept his high paying job and still be living with his hot dancer girlfriend instead of looking for a new country & figuring out how to support himself there..

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 12:55:23 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		I think the US is perfectly happy to let him rot in Ecuador...I hoped he enjoys his new life...such as it is.

Butch

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 1:03:25 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		naw.. they want him back bad... they want to make him pay for the embarassment he has caused Obama & the govt and they wanna nail him to the wall as a warning to anyone else that might blow the whistle on them.. geeze, poor Prez Obama had only a crowd of 6,000 in Germany and they did not seem too happy with him there..

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/06/19526-protestors-mock-obama-during-germany-speech-with-yes-we-scan-signs/

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 1:07:09 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		I don't think so... a trial would only reveal more secrets.. they will raise hell but will not really want him back

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 1:09:27 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		A few dozen demonstrators gathered at Checkpoint Charlie, the Berlin Wall crossing that became a historic symbol of Cold War tensions. Wielding signs reading "Yes We Scan" and "Privacy Ends Here," the group told reporters that they see widespread data collection as a human rights violation.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/06/yes-we-scan-germans-protest-at-checkpoint-charlie-as-obama-arrives-in-berlin/277008/

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 1:14:20 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't think so... a trial would only reveal more secrets.. they will raise hell but will not really want him back

oh dear... you mean there are more secrets that could embarass the govt and show voters how insignificant their Constitution actually is & how the govt tramples their rights? hmmm.. yes, I can see how the govt might not really want him back.. but otoh, Snowden not being dragged back will not keep any other secrets he has from being released at some point by him...

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 1:17:53 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A few dozen demonstrators gathered at Checkpoint Charlie, the Berlin Wall crossing that became a historic symbol of Cold War tensions. Wielding signs reading "Yes We Scan" and "Privacy Ends Here," the group told reporters that they see widespread data collection as a human rights violation.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/06/yes-we-scan-germans-protest-at-checkpoint-charlie-as-obama-arrives-in-berlin/277008/

he has had a massive drop in popularity there, I would say..

"When Obama visited Berlin in 2008, he drew a crowd of over 200,000 enthusiastic supporters. This time around, however, only 6,000 people showed up to hear him speak."

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 1:18:00 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Hope you have a seatbelt on that high horse

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 1:23:09 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A few dozen demonstrators gathered at Checkpoint Charlie, the Berlin Wall crossing that became a historic symbol of Cold War tensions. Wielding signs reading "Yes We Scan" and "Privacy Ends Here," the group told reporters that they see widespread data collection as a human rights violation.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/06/yes-we-scan-germans-protest-at-checkpoint-charlie-as-obama-arrives-in-berlin/277008/

he has had a massive drop in popularity there, I would say..

"When Obama visited Berlin in 2008, he drew a crowd of over 200,000 enthusiastic supporters. This time around, however, only 6,000 people showed up to hear him speak."

Invited guests FFS!

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RE: Snowden leaves Hong Kong - 6/23/2013 1:27:04 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		you dont think it affects everyone? if the govt is spending massive amounts of money building data centers and private contractors to spy on the world, money for drones, etc, there is less money to help poor people, education, heath care, social security, etc etc..

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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