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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/12/2013 12:41:46 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

But I think the republicans have a winning strategy. They can simply say - last time we put amnesty before security - and it never happened. Lets take care of the unresolved security issue - and then have the political debate on paths to residency.

Nobody remembers 1966, or whenever. Republican inaction in the House will simply re-emphasize their inability to govern and solve problems.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/12/2013 4:18:13 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

But I think the republicans have a winning strategy. They can simply say - last time we put amnesty before security - and it never happened. Lets take care of the unresolved security issue - and then have the political debate on paths to residency.

Nobody remembers 1966, or whenever. Republican inaction in the House will simply re-emphasize their inability to govern and solve problems.

Vincent, you could say the same thing about the Democrats.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/12/2013 5:02:25 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

But I think the republicans have a winning strategy. They can simply say - last time we put amnesty before security - and it never happened. Lets take care of the unresolved security issue - and then have the political debate on paths to residency.

Nobody remembers 1966, or whenever. Republican inaction in the House will simply re-emphasize their inability to govern and solve problems.

Vincent, you could say the same thing about the Democrats.

How, Popeye? The Dem controlled Senate passed an immigration bill. The Republican controlled House is likely not to pass one.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/12/2013 5:06:47 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		No, the republicans will pass something and the senate will reject it - because the dims would rather have the issue than solve some of the problems.
As I said - there is no reason to group these things into a huge bill. Split it up.

Border security
Guest worker programs
Enforcement programs against illegals
what to do about dreamers
Pathway to legal residence or citizenship


There's no reason not to reach compromises in each of these areas where you can.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/13/2013 9:30:46 AM   
VideoAdminRho


Posts: 2055
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		A bunch of posts were removed for quoting a pulled post. If your post was removed and you did not receive a Gold Letter, that is the reason. If you would like to re-post (minus the quote) and would like to receive the content of your post, please let me know.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/13/2013 3:51:48 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		Honestly, it really sucks that you so thoroughly disembowel a thread like that. Who would care to go back and search to see if their posts have been removed, and who would remember what they posted over the life of a thread? Basically, this thread is dead then. You might just as well get rid of the quote function. I have seen more people replying without it and now I understand why.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/13/2013 3:52:06 PM >

(in reply to VideoAdminRho)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 6:06:19 AM   
graceadieu


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Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
A bunch of European countries are EXTREMELY sorry the laxed their immigration policies, which still tougher than ours.


Those countries are sorry because they're not used to absorbing large populations of immigrants, so they feel overrun. In the United States, we're used to it, even welcome it. I find that to be one of the most striking differences between Europe and the US.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 6:23:18 AM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I'm not too thrilled about the idea of amnesty, but it may be the only way to legitimize it and better manage it, at least so these kinds of atrocities can be curtailed. A person in that kind of situation really has no place to go; they can't go to the cops since they'll be turned over for deportation. The best way to solve the problem of exploitation is to honor their civil and human rights and encourage them to invoke those rights.


Yeah, this is really the main reason I favor some kind of amnesty. Illegal immigrants who are victimized or exploited have no recourse. One of guys I know did hard construction work for a guy for a week, and when payday came... the boss refused to pay him and threatened to call immigration if he complained. That kind of stuff happens all the time.

quote:

There's also the matter of where they're coming from and why they would go to such extraordinary lengths and great personal risk to leave their home countries and come here. Are things really that bad in their home countries, and if they are that bad, what can be done to make things better? Any long-term immigration reform package should also examine questions like that.


Right. As long as conditions in these other countries are so terrible, their people are going to continue to be desperate to come here. The guy I mentioned above came here with his dad when he was a teenager because they were fleeing machete-wielding gangs that were killing people in their town.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 6:59:20 AM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Honestly, it really sucks that you so thoroughly disembowel a thread like that. Who would care to go back and search to see if their posts have been removed, and who would remember what they posted over the life of a thread? Basically, this thread is dead then. You might just as well get rid of the quote function. I have seen more people replying without it and now I understand why.



Well if we all acted like adults she wouldn't have to chop up the thread so maybe you should be bitching at the ones who can't play nice and leave the unappreciated overworked mods alone.

As to the op...every time I hear talk about making all the illegal immigrants already here legal I have to wonder how much longer people like Ashor are going to have to wait because of it.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 7:04:59 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Honestly, it really sucks that you so thoroughly disembowel a thread like that. Who would care to go back and search to see if their posts have been removed, and who would remember what they posted over the life of a thread? Basically, this thread is dead then. You might just as well get rid of the quote function. I have seen more people replying without it and now I understand why.


And thats Rho's fault how? Dont blame the mods for doing their jobs. Its not their fault that grown adults cannot control themselves enough to post without having to worry about their posts violating TOS.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 7:26:22 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

As to the op...every time I hear talk about making all the illegal immigrants already here legal I have to wonder how much longer people like Ashor are going to have to wait because of it.

Ash would be considered a refugee, I would think.. unfortunately, so were the Boston Bombers.. I am just guessing but perhaps the fact that the Boston Bombers "slipped by" the govt watchers that now all refugee applications are gonna be investigated much more deeply and that will take longer with more perhaps being turned away..

The illegals that are here are already here.. and according to what i have read, they would go to the back of the line, not the front.. but really, the way the govt moves, I expect it could be years before any law is even actually passed to allow that..

It is not easy to become a legal immigrant to the US, sure, if you are a Doctor, a student (which is just tempory), or have a cool $1 million bucks just sitting around you can get in a lot easier and faster.. even if you tell the US govt that you want to start a business in the US (with under $500,000 invested) it is a long difficult process (cuz the govt thinks you are lying).. so its not just hard for people that are "lettuce pickers", it is hard for even those with much to offer the US..

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 8:17:19 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No, the republicans will pass something and the senate will reject it - because the dims would rather have the issue than solve some of the problems.


No, phydeaux. The Senate already passed the immigration bill, in a bipartisan vote. It's specifically the Republicans in the House that are currently, as we speak, holding up the process.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 8:29:32 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

As to the op...every time I hear talk about making all the illegal immigrants already here legal I have to wonder how much longer people like Ashor are going to have to wait because of it.

Ash would be considered a refugee, I would think.. unfortunately, so were the Boston Bombers.. I am just guessing but perhaps the fact that the Boston Bombers "slipped by" the govt watchers that now all refugee applications are gonna be investigated much more deeply and that will take longer with more perhaps being turned away..


Probably, unfortunately.

Wasn't the younger brother born here, though, and the older came here as a child? Also, I haven't been following recent developments - did they ever find any evidence that these guys were really part of a foreign terrorist group? Because if not, I don't know how much Immigration can do about disaffected youth who develop violent ideologies after they come to the United States, other than by paying attention to immigrants making a lot of trips to countries where a lot of terrorist training goes on.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 10:41:30 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No, the republicans will pass something and the senate will reject it - because the dims would rather have the issue than solve some of the problems.


No, phydeaux. The Senate already passed the immigration bill, in a bipartisan vote. It's specifically the Republicans in the House that are currently, as we speak, holding up the process.


Please don't think to educate me on the workings of politics. It has already been discussed that the dimocrats in the senate have passed a bill.
At 1075 pages it is just crammed full of goodies.

The dimocrats can fuss and fume all they want. But that crap piece of legislation isn't going anywere this summer and probably never. As I stated before, the dims would rather have an issue, than compromise on substance.

Since you didn't seem to understand I'll use smaller words.

There is nothing magical about 1000 page bill - except that it is a very long list of what dimocrats want. Most of which republicans don't want.

If the dimocrats were really interested in getting something passed now - they would dispense with the laundry list of things they want - and break it into areas where they might be able to obtain consensus. More people want border security 76% than want amnesty 54%. Dimocrats could get an agreement any time they wanted to - on the areas they can find common ground - such as guest worker programs, border security etc.

They knew the billed they passed couldn't pass the house. Its just circus for the rubes.



(in reply to graceadieu)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 11:42:10 AM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

Wasn't the younger brother born here, though, and the older came here as a child? Also, I haven't been following recent developments - did they ever find any evidence that these guys were really part of a foreign terrorist group? Because if not, I don't know how much Immigration can do about disaffected youth who develop violent ideologies after they come to the United States, other than by paying attention to immigrants making a lot of trips to countries where a lot of terrorist training goes on.

no, the younger came to the US when he was about 8 years old & his older brother was a teenager.. so neither were born in the US.. the older brother did "visit" Russia & chechnya, had ties to another terrorist who was killed in Russia by the police or anti-terrorist cops.. The older brother went to Russia to get a new Russian passport but right after his terrorist buddy was killed he high-tailed it the next day back to the US without his precious Russian passport.. so i think its hard not to conclude he had "ties" of some sort to other terrorists that might have been part of some group.. and supposedly the brothers accessed al queda website on how to build pressure cooker bombs..

The US govt thinks in mysterious ways.. a long time ago, before 9/11, when i lived in Canada with my ex.. someone stole the license plate off our car so we needed to get a new one with a new number.. a month later we decided to play tourist and go for a drive across the border into WA state.. well,.. we were pulled over, kept in a small room (likely video and audio recorded) as the customs people went thru our car.. they never told us why we were pulled over but each time after that it was the same thing, pull over for secondary inspection.. I came to the conclusion (due to a newspaper article) that since some pot smugglers were found to have changed their license plate number that anyone who got a new plate number must be pot smugglers! at least that is how the govt thinks. My point being, when they find a bad guy has done certain things or have a certain "profile", they paint everyone that does those things or has that profile with the same brush.. sure, everyone has to take their shoes off and go thru metal detectors, etc when they fly but if you fit a certain profile you will most often be the one pulled over for closer inspection/questioning.. so it would not surprise me in the least if all refugees now undergo extra scrutiny if they apply to the US..

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 11:10:28 PM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No, the republicans will pass something and the senate will reject it - because the dims would rather have the issue than solve some of the problems.


No, phydeaux. The Senate already passed the immigration bill, in a bipartisan vote. It's specifically the Republicans in the House that are currently, as we speak, holding up the process.


Please don't think to educate me on the workings of politics. It has already been discussed that the dimocrats in the senate have passed a bill.
At 1075 pages it is just crammed full of goodies.

The dimocrats can fuss and fume all they want. But that crap piece of legislation isn't going anywere this summer and probably never. As I stated before, the dims would rather have an issue, than compromise on substance.

Since you didn't seem to understand I'll use smaller words.

There is nothing magical about 1000 page bill - except that it is a very long list of what dimocrats want. Most of which republicans don't want.

If the dimocrats were really interested in getting something passed now - they would dispense with the laundry list of things they want - and break it into areas where they might be able to obtain consensus. More people want border security 76% than want amnesty 54%. Dimocrats could get an agreement any time they wanted to - on the areas they can find common ground - such as guest worker programs, border security etc.

They knew the billed they passed couldn't pass the house. Its just circus for the rubes.


There's no need for childish insults, I'm perfectly aware of the actual facts of the situation.

Why do you think that having 20 or 30 votes instead of the usual 1 (like we have with any other bill) is a better idea? That seems like an awful waste of Congress's time, and also means that the Senate may have to go back to the drawing board. Unless that is the objective, to delay passage as long as possible?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 11:33:58 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

No, the republicans will pass something and the senate will reject it - because the dims would rather have the issue than solve some of the problems.


No, phydeaux. The Senate already passed the immigration bill, in a bipartisan vote. It's specifically the Republicans in the House that are currently, as we speak, holding up the process.


Please don't think to educate me on the workings of politics. It has already been discussed that the dimocrats in the senate have passed a bill.
At 1075 pages it is just crammed full of goodies.

The dimocrats can fuss and fume all they want. But that crap piece of legislation isn't going anywere this summer and probably never. As I stated before, the dims would rather have an issue, than compromise on substance.

Since you didn't seem to understand I'll use smaller words.

There is nothing magical about 1000 page bill - except that it is a very long list of what dimocrats want. Most of which republicans don't want.

If the dimocrats were really interested in getting something passed now - they would dispense with the laundry list of things they want - and break it into areas where they might be able to obtain consensus. More people want border security 76% than want amnesty 54%. Dimocrats could get an agreement any time they wanted to - on the areas they can find common ground - such as guest worker programs, border security etc.

They knew the billed they passed couldn't pass the house. Its just circus for the rubes.


There's no need for childish insults, I'm perfectly aware of the actual facts of the situation.

Why do you think that having 20 or 30 votes instead of the usual 1 (like we have with any other bill) is a better idea? That seems like an awful waste of Congress's time, and also means that the Senate may have to go back to the drawing board. Unless that is the objective, to delay passage as long as possible?


You ask me not to result to childish insults, but three times now have asked a question already answered.

The Senate bill was passed with several poison pills in place. The dims may be hoping the pubs are dumb enough to pass - but thats really not the intent. The intent is a bill that they can point to and say to the Hispanic caucus- see we are sympathetic to your plight - its those nasty repubs that are not.

Again the dims could have significant reform - any time they want it - as there is a lot of consensus on most of it.

As to why not one bill - despite obama 1100 page bills are not usual practice. Hug bills are put forward to bury pork in.

Such as reserving half the visas for Irish immigration for New England.
For obtaining exceptions for multilingual ski instructors in the Colorado.
Moving oversight of the Border Patrol.


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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/15/2013 11:40:07 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		and the repugs arent smart enough to realize it? wow.... such a low opinion of the GOP ... tsk tsk

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/16/2013 12:00:52 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

and the repugs arent smart enough to realize it? wow.... such a low opinion of the GOP ... tsk tsk


Of course I have a low opinion of the GOP. I just have a lower one of dims.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/16/2013 12:04:00 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Then you are pretty screwed on all fronts.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 100
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