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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/16/2013 9:41:37 AM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

The Senate bill was passed with several poison pills in place. The dims may be hoping the pubs are dumb enough to pass - but thats really not the intent. The intent is a bill that they can point to and say to the Hispanic caucus- see we are sympathetic to your plight - its those nasty repubs that are not.



Or, you know, maybe it was written and passed that way because that's what the constituency of the Democrats AND Republicans that voted for it in the Senate - since it passed with bipartisan support there - want? And because it's what needs doing?

You seem to be coming into this discussion with the assumption that the Senate spent lots of time and effort working on this bill and passed it in the hopes that it would fail in the House, which baffles me. Why do you assume that Senate Democrats and Republicans are conducting some kind of show and passing a bill they themselves don't want to get votes, which doesn't make much sense, rather than that the Republicans in the House refusing to pass immigration reform to get votes from their base?

Immigration reform is both needed and wanted in this country. According to a Gallup poll taken last month, 87% of Americans support a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants.

ETA: And the percentage supporting a path to citizenship? Is exactly the same for Democrats and Republicans. So if anything, the House Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot here.

< Message edited by graceadieu -- 7/16/2013 9:46:07 AM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/16/2013 10:28:20 AM   
Phydeaux


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Or, you know, maybe it was written and passed that way because that's what the constituency of the Democrats AND Republicans that voted for it in the Senate
If you take 1000 people off the street, there aren't 20 that would know specifically whats in the senate bill.

And because it's what needs doing?
And when Americans were asked in a May Gallup poll about a list of 12 priorities for the president and Congress, they ranked reforming immigration last.

You seem to be coming into this discussion with the assumption that the Senate spent lots of time and effort working on this bill and passed it in the hopes that it would fail in the Hous
No. I said they passed it in the hopes the republicans would be foolish enough to pass it - but with the expectation that it would fail.

This gives Obama something to gin up the base about, rather than discussing DOJ, budget, unemployment. It is political theater just like the republicans voting to defund obamacare. Dead in the senate.
So it is completely a waste a time except as an effort to win elections.

I say again and again - but you don't seem to understand. IF the democrats wanted to pass a bill, they could any time. They coulld pass a guest worker program. they could pass a border security provision. These things would fly through the house. They don't make these kinds of bills, because they are not interested in them. They think they have the pubs over the barrel on immigration and are hence trying to extract maximum pain.


The pubs will pass these kind of bills - probably toward the end of the year. I honestly think nothing the pubs will do will win them votes on the immigration issue.

Finally, if a bill i honestly a compromise between left and right - you'd think that there would be some democrats unhappy with the bill. And yet... the senate democrat (and independent) voters unanimously voted in favor of the bill.
Not a single dissent?

If that doesn't tell you this bill is lopsidedly in favor of democrat interests, I don't know what will.




< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 7/16/2013 10:30:23 AM >

(in reply to graceadieu)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/16/2013 11:39:08 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

But I think the republicans have a winning strategy. They can simply say - last time we put amnesty before security - and it never happened. Lets take care of the unresolved security issue - and then have the political debate on paths to residency.

Nobody remembers 1966, or whenever. Republican inaction in the House will simply re-emphasize their inability to govern and solve problems.

Vincent, you could say the same thing about the Democrats.

How, Popeye? The Dem controlled Senate passed an immigration bill. The Republican controlled House is likely not to pass one.



Vincent, I was talking about the current crop of Democrats.
Being of Irish descent I would arrest and deport the Irish Illegal Aliens FIRST, just to set the example.
If someone's in our country illegally they need to leave!
Since when did enforcing our laws especially our immigration laws become ...optional?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/16/2013 12:52:14 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Vincent, I was talking about the current crop of Democrats.
Being of Irish descent I would arrest and deport the Irish Illegal Aliens FIRST, just to set the example.
If someone's in our country illegally they need to leave!
Since when did enforcing our laws especially our immigration laws become ...optional?

If we have eleven million illegals as we are told how would you design logistics to deport them? Suppose they all burned their documents and denied their true countries of origin? How would you sort them? Where would you send them? How long would it take? Where would you house them and feed them? What would become of their property? What would become of their native born American children?

Deport all the illegals? What is the plan?

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/16/2013 7:39:44 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Vincent, I was talking about the current crop of Democrats.
Being of Irish descent I would arrest and deport the Irish Illegal Aliens FIRST, just to set the example.
If someone's in our country illegally they need to leave!
Since when did enforcing our laws especially our immigration laws become ...optional?

If we have eleven million illegals as we are told how would you design logistics to deport them? Suppose they all burned their documents and denied their true countries of origin? How would you sort them? Where would you send them? How long would it take? Where would you house them and feed them? What would become of their property? What would become of their native born American children?

Deport all the illegals? What is the plan?

Vincent, that's very easy, just stop "giving" them things and they'll leave on their own. *That's why they're here* because they're *getting* things.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/16/2013 10:20:51 PM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Vincent, that's very easy, just stop "giving" them things and they'll leave on their own. *That's why they're here* because they're *getting* things.


And what's your plan for that? How can you ensure that no employer is able to pay cash to someone under the table to work for them, and that no immigrant is able to pass off their cousin's work visa as their own?

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/16/2013 11:31:58 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Vincent, that's very easy, just stop "giving" them things and they'll leave on their own. *That's why they're here* because they're *getting* things.


And what's your plan for that? How can you ensure that no employer is able to pay cash to someone under the table to work for them, and that no immigrant is able to pass off their cousin's work visa as their own?


This isn't my idea.. but it might be fun to play along. How about a great big reservation, with an airport. No food, but plenty of water and a free ticket anywhere.

(in reply to graceadieu)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/16/2013 11:34:20 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		They are here because they can find work here. If they couldnt find work, they wouldnt be here.

People, it really is that simple.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/17/2013 1:15:16 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Vincent, that's very easy, just stop "giving" them things and they'll leave on their own. *That's why they're here* because they're *getting* things.


And what's your plan for that? How can you ensure that no employer is able to pay cash to someone under the table to work for them, and that no immigrant is able to pass off their cousin's work visa as their own?


Grace, that's law enforcement's job.
But, how are they supposed to do their jobs when this abomination of a "president" publically stated that he won't enforce immigration laws?
As for "employers" all you have to do is grab 15 or 20 in each state and charge them with harboring, sheltering etc and put them in prison for five years like we used to do, make an example out of them. Easy, use "undercover" people. And you make it *very public* that you're using undercover people applying for jobs with no or false papers.
Do you think the other employers are going to take the chance?
And in Freemont Neb they just had an anti-illegal alien law upheld by the eigth circuit court.
The thing is had our govt been doing it's job in this area for the last 20 years we wouldn't have "11 million" illegal aliens in the country now would we?
There's no shortage of workers in this country, there's a shortage of workers who'll work for slave wages.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to graceadieu)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/17/2013 1:29:17 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Sending 11 - 20 million people out of the country will ensure jobs will open up? On what planet?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/17/2013 3:03:38 PM   
MasterCaneman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Sending 11 - 20 million people out of the country will ensure jobs will open up? On what planet?


Well, there is that proposal for a one-way trip to Mars to start a colony there. That'd be one way to get the space program rolling again

< Message edited by MasterCaneman -- 7/17/2013 3:05:05 PM >

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(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/17/2013 3:24:28 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Vincent, that's very easy, just stop "giving" them things and they'll leave on their own. *That's why they're here* because they're *getting* things.

Oh, Pops. Such a lame nonanswer. Is that a dittohead talking point?

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/17/2013 3:26:59 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

This isn't my idea.. but it might be fun to play along. How about a great big reservation, with an airport. No food, but plenty of water and a free ticket anywhere.

Great! If we can keep them from getting to the buffalo herds.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/17/2013 3:57:01 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Sending 11 - 20 million people out of the country will ensure jobs will open up? On what planet?


Well, there is that proposal for a one-way trip to Mars to start a colony there. That'd be one way to get the space program rolling again


~smirks

Maybe they will man the new national park on the moon

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/18/2013 1:00:44 AM   
popeye1250


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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Vincent, that's very easy, just stop "giving" them things and they'll leave on their own. *That's why they're here* because they're *getting* things.

Oh, Pops. Such a lame nonanswer. Is that a dittohead talking point?



Vincent, you asked me a question I answered it.
You don't like my answer so you insult me? What's that all about?
Also, it would take some time, you can't deport "11 million" illegals in 90 days but we can make a hell of a dent in the numbers in two or three years!
And if *you* were the head of INS and the president gave you the task of deporting as many illegals in as short a period of time as possible how would you go about it?


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/18/2013 11:57:02 AM   
papassion


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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
A bunch of European countries are EXTREMELY sorry the laxed their immigration policies, which still tougher than ours.


Those countries are sorry because they're not used to absorbing large populations of immigrants, so they feel overrun. In the United States, we're used to it, even welcome it. I find that to be one of the most striking differences between Europe and the US.


You are saying everyone in authority in European countries knows nothing about immigrants and the immigrants effect on the receiving country? Bullshit! The European, Danish, etc countries did the Liberal thing and let anyone come in. Now they realize the foolishness of their mistake.

Too bad our Libs here can't learn from their mistake.

(in reply to graceadieu)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/18/2013 4:44:31 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Vincent, you asked me a question I answered it.
You don't like my answer so you insult me? What's that all about?
Also, it would take some time, you can't deport "11 million" illegals in 90 days but we can make a hell of a dent in the numbers in two or three years!
And if *you* were the head of INS and the president gave you the task of deporting as many illegals in as short a period of time as possible how would you go about it?

No, I insulted the answer. I never insulted you nor intended to. Sorry you took it personal. Sorry I may have made it seem personal. Apologies.

To answer your question, Pops. The mass deportation of aliens has never been accomplished. It is likely an impossible and inhumane project to contemplate. It would create chaos in neighborhoods and industries that depend on these established aliens. The targeted people are not going to just sit placidly and wait for their name to appear on a list telling them to go home. Surely they would take measures to protect their property and businesses. The courts would be clogged with legal action and the streets filled with protestors. I can only imagine it would end badly.



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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/18/2013 4:52:16 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
A bunch of European countries are EXTREMELY sorry the laxed their immigration policies, which still tougher than ours.


Those countries are sorry because they're not used to absorbing large populations of immigrants, so they feel overrun. In the United States, we're used to it, even welcome it. I find that to be one of the most striking differences between Europe and the US.


You are saying everyone in authority in European countries knows nothing about immigrants and the immigrants effect on the receiving country? Bullshit! The European, Danish, etc countries did the Liberal thing and let anyone come in. Now they realize the foolishness of their mistake.

Too bad our Libs here can't learn from their mistake.

Your view of the history of migration into Europe from the muslim lands is much too simple. You forget that much of North Africa was previously colonised by the Europeans so recipricol migration was already in play when the EU eliminated internal visas and made the movement of workers so much easier. There were Turks in Germany, Algerians in France, Libyans and Sudanese in Italy, etc, way before the EU was formed as an economic entity. And clearly England had large populations of Indians, Pakistanis, and Islanders.

(in reply to papassion)
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RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/18/2013 4:55:56 PM   
Phydeaux


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Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Vincent, you asked me a question I answered it.
You don't like my answer so you insult me? What's that all about?
Also, it would take some time, you can't deport "11 million" illegals in 90 days but we can make a hell of a dent in the numbers in two or three years!
And if *you* were the head of INS and the president gave you the task of deporting as many illegals in as short a period of time as possible how would you go about it?

No, I insulted the answer. I never insulted you nor intended to. Sorry you took it personal. Sorry I may have made it seem personal. Apologies.

To answer your question, Pops. The mass deportation of aliens has never been accomplished. It is likely an impossible and inhumane project to contemplate. It would create chaos in neighborhoods and industries that depend on these established aliens. The targeted people are not going to just sit placidly and wait for their name to appear on a list telling them to go home. Surely they would take measures to protect their property and businesses. The courts would be clogged with legal action and the streets filled with protestors. I can only imagine it would end badly.




Thats simply not true. Mass deportations occured in the US in the 1930s and at many times in the soviet union. The US deported around 2 mil during the depression, and more when the program was revived in the 50's. The Soviets had a practise of Russification that deported probably 6 million - causing the deaths of 1 million.



(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: We must get rid of illegal immigrants! - 7/18/2013 5:01:52 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They are here because they can find work here. If they couldnt find work, they wouldnt be here.

People, it really is that simple.


Fuck me, youre smarter than I thought Tazzy.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 120
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