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RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/20/2013 9:46:38 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

I simply don't trust Perry to have appointed anyone independent to that board.

From a quick look, this was one of those, "OK, we really fucked up.Now, we're gonna get a guy with impeccable credentials and move forward and try to brush the past under the rug," sort of appointments.
Further, I suspect this was a case where Perry had to make sure his candidate was someone the media would find, at a minimum, acceptable. Gotta appease the press. Not to mention there was considerable public pressure. All in all, this was an appointment that had to be found acceptable by many parties.
That Di Maio was might actually be a testament for him, not against.

Then why hasn't the board reopened their investigation of the Willingham case and formally found the state to have been in the wrong when they executed an innocent man. What could possibly be more pressing than that?

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 4:54:48 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		What a mess. I sure wouldn't want to be making the call on this one.

Bottom line Zimmerman shouldn't have kept pursuing Martin. He took the law into his own hands. I understand he was sick of the break ins, and it was getting scarey, but he was pursuing more then he could bite off. Both were volatile. I am under the impression, the kid might have had attitude, the kid felt stalked, and harassed and he beat the crap out of him. Zimmerman had a gun, and felt like he was going to be killed in the heat of the moment and shot him.
I think people should own the right to protect themselves, but tragedies like this really make one think, what if he didn't have a gun. Personally I think the whole thing was a huge accident, and if played all over again, different decisions would have been made by both of them. Unfortunately they don't get a do over. One man cant make any decisions now and the other has to live with this the rest of his life.

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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 5:42:28 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

I simply don't trust Perry to have appointed anyone independent to that board.

From a quick look, this was one of those, "OK, we really fucked up.Now, we're gonna get a guy with impeccable credentials and move forward and try to brush the past under the rug," sort of appointments.
Further, I suspect this was a case where Perry had to make sure his candidate was someone the media would find, at a minimum, acceptable. Gotta appease the press. Not to mention there was considerable public pressure. All in all, this was an appointment that had to be found acceptable by many parties.
That Di Maio was might actually be a testament for him, not against.

Then why hasn't the board reopened their investigation of the Willingham case and formally found the state to have been in the wrong when they executed an innocent man. What could possibly be more pressing than that?

Read the article-They aren't empowered to do so. Also, and this isn't in the article, but I'll note that even in 2011, if the execution occurred in 2004, the seven year statute of limitations was up. Now it almost certainly is. So to do so would be a waste of taxpayer time and resources.

Dude, you're kinda reaching to discredit a man who's a really good witness.



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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 9:09:28 AM   
DominantJ247


Posts: 9
Joined: 4/2/2013
Status: offline 		The one thing i don't like is the fact that now in florida this sets a precedence for being able to cap someone the moment you "feel threatened" i think out of all of it this is the biggest issue i have with the case.

My opinion on the verdict is it was the right verdict, also i feel like both parties are to blame, and that if Zimmerman didn't pull the gun Trayvon could of killed him that night. His wounds were not "weak" if you saw his face and head, he was probably close to being KO'd. imo.

It sucks for me because for some reason my own father disagrees with me that Zimmerman was justified in shooting him... this case has divided a lot of people.

Imo , the NSA recording every phone call in the US is much more of a worse story than this case.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 9:52:25 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

I simply don't trust Perry to have appointed anyone independent to that board.

From a quick look, this was one of those, "OK, we really fucked up.Now, we're gonna get a guy with impeccable credentials and move forward and try to brush the past under the rug," sort of appointments.
Further, I suspect this was a case where Perry had to make sure his candidate was someone the media would find, at a minimum, acceptable. Gotta appease the press. Not to mention there was considerable public pressure. All in all, this was an appointment that had to be found acceptable by many parties.
That Di Maio was might actually be a testament for him, not against.

Then why hasn't the board reopened their investigation of the Willingham case and formally found the state to have been in the wrong when they executed an innocent man. What could possibly be more pressing than that?

Read the article-They aren't empowered to do so. Also, and this isn't in the article, but I'll note that even in 2011, if the execution occurred in 2004, the seven year statute of limitations was up. Now it almost certainly is. So to do so would be a waste of taxpayer time and resources.

Dude, you're kinda reaching to discredit a man who's a really good witness.

No, I've been following the Willingham case for about 15 years and I could give a rats ass about a statute of limitations. The state of Texas willfully and with malice of aforethought murdered an innocent man despite the fact the Governor had documents proving his innocence before the state killed him. The state should have to formally acknowledge that fact and deal with the aftermath and anyone who cooperates with that not happening, and every single member of the Texas Forensic Science Commission is in that position, is suspect as being a tool of Perry and the scum that supports him and thinks nothing of using the state apparatus to murder innocent people.

And if the man is question has such impeccable ethics to never lie for a paycheck why did he accept the appointment to the commission at all? Every one even remotely associated with criminal justice issues in Texas must know the sordid history of Perry and the commission.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 9:54:27 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJ247

The one thing i don't like is the fact that now in florida this sets a precedence for being able to cap someone the moment you "feel threatened" i think out of all of it this is the biggest issue i have with the case.


Nope. Zimmerman was acquitted under self defense. His team didn't even bother to use Stand Your Ground because they didn't need to.

So SYG still needs to have its day in court.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to DominantJ247)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 9:54:36 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJ247

The one thing i don't like is the fact that now in florida this sets a precedence for being able to cap someone the moment you "feel threatened" i think out of all of it this is the biggest issue i have with the case.

The way the Florida self defense statute is written and interpreted by the state appellate courts it is legal to kill someone simply because you feel threatened. The prosecution has an effectively insurmountable burden to disprove such a claim.

(in reply to DominantJ247)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 9:56:11 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And if the man is question has such impeccable ethics to never lie for a paycheck why did he accept the appointment to the commission at all? Every one even remotely associated with criminal justice issues in Texas must know the sordid history of Perry and the commission.



And yet, you have no trouble taking the word of a medical examiner with over a decade of complaints about her ethics and competency, as long as she supports your narrative.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 9:56:34 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJ247

The one thing i don't like is the fact that now in florida this sets a precedence for being able to cap someone the moment you "feel threatened" i think out of all of it this is the biggest issue i have with the case.


Nope. Zimmerman was acquitted under self defense. His team didn't even bother to use Stand Your Ground because they didn't need to.

So SYG still needs to have its day in court.

The law is specifically designed to stay out of court. If you claim SYG there is a hearing before a judge. If the judge feels that your claim meets the standard in the law the charges are dismissed and you walk out free and clear.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 9:57:53 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And if the man is question has such impeccable ethics to never lie for a paycheck why did he accept the appointment to the commission at all? Every one even remotely associated with criminal justice issues in Texas must know the sordid history of Perry and the commission.



And yet, you have no trouble taking the word of a medical examiner with over a decade of complaints about her ethics and competency, as long as she supports your narrative.

wrong. I also have eyes and saw the photos of Zimmerman the night of the fight. Those were not injuries consistent with a vicious beating of the sort to make a reasonable person fear for their life.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 10:05:42 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		I disagree. And more importantly, the jury disagreed. People better qualified to testify to that disagreed.

And, on the topic of the expert testimony, it was undisputed in court that the injuries to George's head was caused by more than one impact, despite the State's bought "expert's" feeble attempt to refute it.

Nice attempt to backtrack from your own hypocrisy though.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 7/21/2013 10:06:47 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 1:07:30 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

I disagree. And more importantly, the jury disagreed. People better qualified to testify to that disagreed.

And, on the topic of the expert testimony, it was undisputed in court that the injuries to George's head was caused by more than one impact, despite the State's bought "expert's" feeble attempt to refute it.

Nice attempt to backtrack from your own hypocrisy though.

Did the judge strike the ME testimony? No. then it is not undisputed. One witness said it was once the other said it was several (but that all the other blows did was cause a little swelling that quickly went down). You choose to believe the one that confirms your belief that there had to be some real reason Zimmerman shot an unarmed teenager who had done absolutely nothing.

Go find someone who does MMA or who has actually been in a serious fight. If your head is hitting something hard several times with real force you will have a lot of cuts and you will bleed all over everything (head wounds bleed a lot more than you would ever believe unless you've seen it).

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 1:45:05 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		One ME bought by the State and hidden from deposition says only one hit, then is forced to admit on cross examination it could be more.
A far more experienced and credible ME without the decade of complaints (considered one of, if not the, top ME in the country) says it was more than one impact.

Yes, to any reasonable person at all, it is downright undisputed that George's head was hit by more than one impact. There are marks on all sides of his head. That makes it undisputed right there.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 2:53:14 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJ247

The one thing i don't like is the fact that now in florida this sets a precedence for being able to cap someone the moment you "feel threatened" i think out of all of it this is the biggest issue i have with the case.

The way the Florida self defense statute is written and interpreted by the state appellate courts it is legal to kill someone simply because you feel threatened. The prosecution has an effectively insurmountable burden to disprove such a claim.



Well, surprise surprise I don't agree with you.
But frankly, I'm glad the law is as it is, and it won't be changing. As far as I'm concern a broken nose more than qualifies as a reason to cap your ass.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 3:04:08 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

. DomKen
Nope. The injuries were consistent with one impact.



Snicker. Do not believe what your eyes tell you. Do not believe what the witnesses tell you. Believe, what I, DomKen, Master of Law, Engineering, Religion and the Internet tell you.

Guy - do you not see that your argument only succeeds in making you look ridiculous? Zimmerman had a number of cuts on the back of his head, and what appears to be a broken nose. Most people will look at a picture and say - damn that argument's fuloshit.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 3:44:00 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

. DomKen
Nope. The injuries were consistent with one impact.



Snicker. Do not believe what your eyes tell you. Do not believe what the witnesses tell you. Believe, what I, DomKen, Master of Law, Engineering, Religion and the Internet tell you.

Guy - do you not see that your argument only succeeds in making you look ridiculous? Zimmerman had a number of cuts on the back of his head, and what appears to be a broken nose. Most people will look at a picture and say - damn that argument's fuloshit.

He had two very minor cuts on the back of his, we're not actually discussing the punch to his nose so that is a non sequitur. They were so minor there was very little blood, none on his clothes, and the EMT's didn't feel the need to use even a butterfly and didn't even bother to dress them.

Even the defense ME said that it was possible it was only one but that he thought it was more.

All the evidence says is Zimmerman got punched, once, and he hit his head on something hard once. Everything else is based on the assertions of a proven liar.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 3:46:36 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And if the man is question has such impeccable ethics to never lie for a paycheck why did he accept the appointment to the commission at all? Every one even remotely associated with criminal justice issues in Texas must know the sordid history of Perry and the commission.



And yet, you have no trouble taking the word of a medical examiner with over a decade of complaints about her ethics and competency, as long as she supports your narrative.

wrong. I also have eyes and saw the photos of Zimmerman the night of the fight. Those were not injuries consistent with a vicious beating of the sort to make a reasonable person fear for their life.

One more time you don't have to wait for brain matter on the ground to take action.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 3:47:46 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJ247

The one thing i don't like is the fact that now in florida this sets a precedence for being able to cap someone the moment you "feel threatened" i think out of all of it this is the biggest issue i have with the case.

The way the Florida self defense statute is written and interpreted by the state appellate courts it is legal to kill someone simply because you feel threatened. The prosecution has an effectively insurmountable burden to disprove such a claim.



Well, surprise surprise I don't agree with you.
But frankly, I'm glad the law is as it is, and it won't be changing. As far as I'm concern a broken nose more than qualifies as a reason to cap your ass.


In Florida self defense is no longer an affirmative defense the defense must establish by the preponderance of the evidence but is now something the prosecution must disprove beyond a reasonable doubt. Proving a negative is a well understood impossibility. So what part do you disagree?

A broken nose is reason to kill? Are you really that hateful and cowardly?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 3:50:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

. DomKen
Nope. The injuries were consistent with one impact.



Snicker. Do not believe what your eyes tell you. Do not believe what the witnesses tell you. Believe, what I, DomKen, Master of Law, Engineering, Religion and the Internet tell you.

Guy - do you not see that your argument only succeeds in making you look ridiculous? Zimmerman had a number of cuts on the back of his head, and what appears to be a broken nose. Most people will look at a picture and say - damn that argument's fuloshit.

He had two very minor cuts on the back of his, we're not actually discussing the punch to his nose so that is a non sequitur. They were so minor there was very little blood, none on his clothes, and the EMT's didn't feel the need to use even a butterfly and didn't even bother to dress them.

Even the defense ME said that it was possible it was only one but that he thought it was more.

All the evidence says is Zimmerman got punched, once, and he hit his head on something hard once. Everything else is based on the assertions of a proven liar.

ME said one cause that proved?
ME admitted that the evidence didn't prove one just that it suggested one.
Even one still leaves Martin as the aggressor so even if you are right it proves your wrong.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/21/2013 3:55:53 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: The REAL discrimination in the Zimmerman case. - 7/21/2013 3:50:10 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And if the man is question has such impeccable ethics to never lie for a paycheck why did he accept the appointment to the commission at all? Every one even remotely associated with criminal justice issues in Texas must know the sordid history of Perry and the commission.



And yet, you have no trouble taking the word of a medical examiner with over a decade of complaints about her ethics and competency, as long as she supports your narrative.

wrong. I also have eyes and saw the photos of Zimmerman the night of the fight. Those were not injuries consistent with a vicious beating of the sort to make a reasonable person fear for their life.

One more time you don't have to wait for brain matter on the ground to take action.

No, but you do need to be in imminent danger and there is absolutely no evidence that shows that.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 160
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