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[Poll]

Who are more free... Americans or Europeans


Americans have more freedoms
  37% (22)
Europeans have more freedoms
  35% (21)
Both are about as free as eachother
  27% (16)


Total Votes : 59


(last vote on : 8/22/2013 9:34:29 AM)
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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/27/2013 11:00:50 AM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

I've never read Sergeant Fury and his Howling Commandos, but I've seen every episode of Hogan's Heroes.


You can get that free online now. Maybe not every ep, but some.

But if you look at it, of the major characters, Hogan and Kinch were American. The rest were from France, England etc.

T^T

(in reply to Zonie63)
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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/28/2013 8:14:41 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

I've never read Sergeant Fury and his Howling Commandos, but I've seen every episode of Hogan's Heroes.


You can get that free online now. Maybe not every ep, but some.

But if you look at it, of the major characters, Hogan and Kinch were American. The rest were from France, England etc.

T^T


Carter was also American. He was actually my favorite character of the show.

Thinking on this, it struck me that in a lot of those shows and movies from back then, Americans were often portrayed as the smarter and more heroic, while the Europeans generally fell into stereotypes. Hogan's Heroes was kind of like that in a way.


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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/28/2013 8:18:13 AM   
altoonamaster


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sgt furry and his howling commandos that brings back memories

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/28/2013 8:39:47 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: altoonamaster

sgt furry and his howling commandos that brings back memories

There's a few stereotypes in that one as well, if memory serves.

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/28/2013 10:29:33 AM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

Carter was also American.


I stand corrected. Yeah, those explosive experts are quite the character eh ?

Of course many of the extras were cast as American, no doubt. One thing I wonder is why there were no Russians. Maybe the Russians were such bad mofos that they were never taken alive ?

T^T

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/28/2013 12:55:13 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Thinking on this, it struck me that in a lot of those shows and movies from back then, Americans were often portrayed as the smarter and more heroic, while the Europeans generally fell into stereotypes. Hogan's Heroes was kind of like that in a way.

well.. that sorta makes sense, doesnt it? it was aimed at the American audience so how well would it go over if the Americans were portayed as bungling, dumber and less heroic? That happens even today, for example the movie Argo.. it was offensive to some people (especially the hostages still alive today) cuz of how it twisted history.. but sometimes to make more money, history is twisted by Hollywood.. cuz money is the most important thing, aint it?

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/28/2013 3:11:39 PM   
pahunkboy


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IMO more Americans should go back to the UK for the stunning quality of life there.

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/28/2013 3:19:07 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

IMO more Americans should go back to the UK for the stunning quality of life there.


True, but the quality of death is a bit lacking. It's unlikely I'll ever get shot even by a cheap 9 mm, never mind a quality top-of-the-range chromed revolver.

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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/28/2013 3:31:38 PM   
MrBukani


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Maybe Lock stock and two smoking barrels is worthy enough?

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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/28/2013 6:22:34 PM   
Powergamz1


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Yes, there was a distinct shortage of American comedies portraying the WWII German military as exhibiting all the most stellar human traits... must be bigotry and jealousy on the parts of the cabal running TV and Hollywood...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

I've never read Sergeant Fury and his Howling Commandos, but I've seen every episode of Hogan's Heroes.


You can get that free online now. Maybe not every ep, but some.

But if you look at it, of the major characters, Hogan and Kinch were American. The rest were from France, England etc.

T^T


Carter was also American. He was actually my favorite character of the show.

Thinking on this, it struck me that in a lot of those shows and movies from back then, Americans were often portrayed as the smarter and more heroic, while the Europeans generally fell into stereotypes. Hogan's Heroes was kind of like that in a way.





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(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 7/28/2013 6:27:46 PM   
MrBukani


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Are we the Baddies?' Mitchell and Webb Funny Nazi Scetch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

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Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/16/2013 2:20:05 AM   
DarkWolf6606


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To all of the above comments reflecting my post; personally I don't really mind whatever you wish to call me in reference to my ancestry, my viewpoints or my political atheism. I'm sure at one point or another in my life I would have heard it whether in jest or from a purely derogatory perspective and I've got enough tasks to tend to get too riled about it all. I was probably making a half-conscious attempt to separate my self-identity from the golden horde of "American" humanity that by its gregarious nature tends to congregate in herds, or perhaps "swarms" would be a better term and consume everything (including popular euphemisms) served up to them on a gleaming plastic chrome plated dish.

It's more that I didn't see any other topics (other than the Endless Zimmerman Debacle) in the Politics & Religion forums that sparked my interest enough to comment upon and noticing that the algorithm of comparison was somewhat skewed by offering up one country opposed to a continent (though only by convention), I just had to offer up my two cents.

"Whoever is the wisest among you is also a mere conflict and cross between plant and ghost. But do I bid you become ghosts or plants? - Thus Spoke Zarathustra



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Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 12:29:12 PM   
DarkWolf6606


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And in my final response on this thread: My reference to self indulgence and self deception wasn't included because of the fact that most citizens call themselves "Americans". It was in reference to what, in my own perspective is the overall condition of the average U.S. citizen.

Now granted, it appears that the majority of frequent posters to this forum have a higher level of intelligence than the average joe that I run into on a day to day basis, but then I've spent the majority of my life in rural and semi-rural areas. Not having the experience of recent contact with your average urban dweller, my perspective could well be jaded by that particular dynamic. It could also be that individuals that have a proclivity for BDSM and fetish related activities and lifestyles possess a heightened awareness of all things intellectual. At least in my own experience that has been the case more often than not, though I'm sure many of you could argue that case as well..

Again, I'm all for a healthy dose of self-indulgence though I tend to refrain from self-deception. Quite the contrary and perhaps even to a fault.

My personal observation is that the majority of U.S. citizens are self-indulgent in that lives are predominantly based upon material acquisition and possession and self worth is often based on financial criteria rather than a personal one. In a culture where more often than not one of the top ten questions asked in a conversation between strangers is "What do you do for a living", whether out of genuine curiosity or just conditioning, I see as a reflection of the true nature of the beast.

As for self-deception, (albeit much of the average viewpoint is programmed conditioning) my experience is that the average "American's" knowledge and perspective of the various regions of the world are very narrow in scope and knowledge, compared to let's say the average Europeans, as to the true state of affairs of our economy, our government and our freedoms.

It is true that we are a nation of laws, perhaps way more than we need to truly live freely. When freedom is viewed from the perspective of legality, rather than a basic integral and personal nature it serves to highlight the basic problem of definition. I see it that we are all free to do whatever we so choose and live our lives however we wish. It's the level of consequences for our actions in a given locality that bears the discussion of whether or not we are "more free" and since Europe is a continent of nations, all with their own set of laws, cultures and mores, the original question posed in this thread is erroneous in that it introduces too many variables. Thus, the discussion divulged into a comparison of quality of life mixed with legalities and moralities of culture. We might as well have had a discussion about who is more free? Those who live in California or those who live in on the Eastern Seaboard?

Anyway, I'd like to thank everyone who participated as it was a good study of the human perspective, both in its limitations and it's expansion of cultural consciousness. Take care and be well...





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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 12:31:28 PM   
pahunkboy


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Americans are more free. Pretty simple.

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 3:24:02 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


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Define freedom. Define European. I don't think this question is answerable in a simple three choice poll.

Americans have the right to keep and bear arms, the vast majority of Europeans do not. American women have the right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, many European women do not. Americans have greater freedom of speech and of the press. Americans pay less in taxes. On the other hand, Europeans are less likely to be bankrupted by acute medical problems. Most Europeans have a more effective social safety net. A smaller percentage of Europeans are imprisoned.

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 3:37:22 PM   
pahunkboy


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I will buy that.

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 3:39:24 PM   
SirJayB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Americans are more free. Pretty simple.


I really think freedom is a state of mind. If you believe you have freedom because of the laws that exist where you live, and you follow them without question you really aren't free at all. You do what you're told and that seems just the opposite of freedom . So freedom is the ability to think for yourself and form your own opinion, make your own choices. And that doesn't have anything to do with geographic location but intellectual development and critical thinking. Just think how free you really are if someone else tells you how "free" you can be. Also everyone is free to do whatever they want, whenever they want. Jails are filled with people who made dissensions the governments/societies don't condone.


< Message edited by SirJayB -- 8/17/2013 3:40:09 PM >

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 5:58:35 PM   
ernest10


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I lived in a small European country for a couple of years. We paid higher taxes yes, but when my daughter became ill the doctor actually came to the house. The cost, about $10.00. Yes, ten bucks. Did we get to chose the doctor, no, but she got good care all the same and is alive and well today and I didn't have to go into hock. Were some of their laws different? Sure, and they should be as their societal aims are different. I can't think of anything I couldn't do living in Europe that I can do here except buy a gun. Some countries in Europe ban abortion as many states in the US, and the conservative movement, are trying to do here today. We in America have a clearly stated free press. However, in Europe I could right a letter to the editor and rail against the system as I can here. I could get in the face of a local politician and tell he or she they were wrong just as I can here.

For some, paying higher taxes and receiving more in government benefits is a kind of freedom. For others, paying lower taxes and being able to accumulate more personal wealth represents freedom. Americans and Europeans both make trade offs. More security (in the broader sense of the term) equals less liberty while greater liberty, by definition, makes us less safe. In the broad strokes, the freedoms enjoyed in Europe and the US are much the same. It comes down to ones detailed definition of freedom as to whether or not one feels free.

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 6:09:13 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

The cost, about $10.00. Yes, ten bucks.


Many who live in Europe- are forced to live on less then a dollar a day.

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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 6:19:17 PM   
jola37


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

A smaller percentage of Europeans are imprisoned.


Prisons are not private business's in the UK yet so this might have something to do with that percentage.

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