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[Poll]

Who are more free... Americans or Europeans


Americans have more freedoms
  37% (22)
Europeans have more freedoms
  35% (21)
Both are about as free as eachother
  27% (16)


Total Votes : 59
(last vote on : 8/22/2013 9:34:29 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 6:26:16 PM   
getoutnow


Posts: 151
Joined: 8/5/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

American women have the right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, many European women do not.



Many European women do not? Please try to have your facts in order next time!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law

quote:

Malta is the only European country that bans abortion in all cases, and does not have an exception for situations where the woman's life is in danger. The law however is not strictly enforced in relation to instances where a pregnancy endangers the woman's life.


I cannot recall a single news piece where in any of the 30 EU countrie there was an issue that a woman was unable to choose whether or not to terminate a pregnancy. However in the US this is a huge issue.

European Women Free 1. American Women Not Free 0.

(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 6:32:49 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: getoutnow

I cannot recall a single news piece where in any of the 30 EU countrie there was an issue that a woman was unable to choose whether or not to terminate a pregnancy. However in the US this is a huge issue.

European Women Free 1. American Women Not Free 0.

I recall this news piece on a woman dying in Ireland cuz she was refused an abortion..

Husband testifies his wife died after abortion was denied in Ireland
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/world/europe/ireland-abortion-controversy

_____________________________

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(in reply to getoutnow)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 6:44:22 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: getoutnow

I cannot recall a single news piece where in any of the 30 EU countrie there was an issue that a woman was unable to choose whether or not to terminate a pregnancy. However in the US this is a huge issue.

European Women Free 1. American Women Not Free 0.

I recall this news piece on a woman dying in Ireland cuz she was refused an abortion..

Husband testifies his wife died after abortion was denied in Ireland
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/world/europe/ireland-abortion-controversy



Freedom is not death via abortion! The poor baby never had a chance.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 6:50:14 PM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: getoutnow

I cannot recall a single news piece where in any of the 30 EU countrie there was an issue that a woman was unable to choose whether or not to terminate a pregnancy. However in the US this is a huge issue.

European Women Free 1. American Women Not Free 0.

I recall this news piece on a woman dying in Ireland cuz she was refused an abortion..

Husband testifies his wife died after abortion was denied in Ireland
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/world/europe/ireland-abortion-controversy



She was miscarrying and got a bacterial infection. She would have died anyway.

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(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 7:36:19 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

She was miscarrying and got a bacterial infection. She would have died anyway.

they didn't know she died from the septicaemia until they did the autopsy on her.. saying she would have died anyway is not a reason to not try.. there are lots of people that have operations, etc and "die anyway".. and that isn't the reason they gave the woman/couple at the time for their refusal..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 7:39:21 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Thats just fucked up huh

_____________________________

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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 7:39:23 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

She was miscarrying and got a bacterial infection. She would have died anyway.

they didn't know she died from the septicaemia until they did the autopsy on her.. saying she would have died anyway is not a reason to not try.. there are lots of people that have operations, etc and "die anyway".. and that isn't the reason they gave the woman/couple at the time for their refusal..


She should not place extra burden onto the health care system. She takes up resources that denies to someone who actually needs them.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 7:45:56 PM   
getoutnow


Posts: 151
Joined: 8/5/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I recall this news piece on a woman dying in Ireland cuz she was refused an abortion..



Thanks, I didnt know that. Although now they have fixed the issue somewhat.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/30/ireland-abortion-bill-signed-law-legal_n_3676492.html

Still, Ireland is right next to the UK. Which isnt so strict. Hell, I'm sure they can cross the border and get help there in NI.

< Message edited by getoutnow -- 8/17/2013 7:46:04 PM >

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 7:46:51 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Off all the posts ive read ever,, that is the ugliest dumb pathetic post.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 7:49:45 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Not when she is using abortion as a means of birth control.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 7:51:45 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Not when she is using abortion as a means of birth control.

you don't read the links ever do you?

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Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 7:57:17 PM   
thezeppo


Posts: 441
Joined: 11/15/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

She was miscarrying and got a bacterial infection. She would have died anyway.

they didn't know she died from the septicaemia until they did the autopsy on her.. saying she would have died anyway is not a reason to not try.. there are lots of people that have operations, etc and "die anyway".. and that isn't the reason they gave the woman/couple at the time for their refusal..



She should not place extra burden onto the health care system. She takes up resources that denies to someone who actually needs them.



to each according to their need was the original tenet of the NHS. We should stand by that. She needed help, and she deserved help. She should have received it. Lets inject a bit of humanism back into this discussion. Yes there is a finite amount of money to go around but if someone needs medical attention they should get it - they are still people after all. Quite frankly, fuck the extra burden and lets hold our heads high. Its a damn sight better than turning people away at the door because their card wont scan.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 8:02:36 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I dont know how things work over there- but in this area- folks over use the ER - abuse it. They dont go to a regular DR and then go to the ER for trivial things- some are drug users who merely want to get high off of opiates.

When I first moved here- the wait time was under a 1/2 hour- now the ER wait time is 5+ hours.

People hog the ER when they could be to urgent care center-and be seen.

(in reply to thezeppo)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 8:59:01 PM   
ernest10


Posts: 21
Joined: 3/23/2013
Status: offline 		Many people that use the ER as their primary health provider do so because they do not have health insurance and do not have the means to see a doctor. Those people drive up health costs for us all as hospitals are forced to recoup money from paying customers, like insurance companies.

The problem extends beyond the obvious abusers of the system or the undocumented. It also includes the working poor in this country. People working for low wages for employers who aren't able to, or won't provide health coverage. I know, "let them get another job". An easy answer to a complicated problem. There are people who hold simple, low paying jobs because they lack the skills, abilities, and/or mental capacity to do more complex work. So they work doing jobs that most folks wouldn't do for low pay and no benefits. The issue of overburdened ER's will continue until everyone has access to adequate health care, as they do in most EU countries. And let's not forget our neighbors to the north. Canada provides health care to everyone there as well and they seem to be doing fine.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 9:10:25 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		The sticking point on that tho is single payer. If you examine medicare part D- that is not single payer.

(in reply to ernest10)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 9:18:41 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ernest10

Many people that use the ER as their primary health provider do so because they do not have health insurance and do not have the means to see a doctor. Those people drive up health costs for us all as hospitals are forced to recoup money from paying customers, like insurance companies.

The problem extends beyond the obvious abusers of the system or the undocumented. It also includes the working poor in this country. People working for low wages for employers who aren't able to, or won't provide health coverage. I know, "let them get another job". An easy answer to a complicated problem. There are people who hold simple, low paying jobs because they lack the skills, abilities, and/or mental capacity to do more complex work. So they work doing jobs that most folks wouldn't do for low pay and no benefits. The issue of overburdened ER's will continue until everyone has access to adequate health care, as they do in most EU countries. And let's not forget our neighbors to the north. Canada provides health care to everyone there as well and they seem to be doing fine.


as a result of government exporting all the jobs and the banksters robbing the place blind.


so your solution is to blame the guy the governments mismanagement put out on the street huh? Sounds fair to me!

_____________________________

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(in reply to ernest10)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 9:20:27 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		Who are more free... Americans or Europeans

incidentally, free from or free to?





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 9:22:09 PM   
ernest10


Posts: 21
Joined: 3/23/2013
Status: offline 		Which means we need a total overhaul of the health care system. Which leads into our tax system. If everyone, including our fellow citizen's the large corporations, paid their fair share (dare I say flat tax), then we'd have the money to do the things we should be doing as a society. It's a shame that we live in what is arguably the most prosperous county in the world and people can still go broke due to an illness.

As the old saying goes, "If you have good health, you have everything". The ultimate freedom.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 9:24:03 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ernest10

Which means we need a total overhaul of the health care system. Which leads into our tax system. If everyone, including our fellow citizen's the large corporations, paid their fair share (dare I say flat tax), then we'd have the money to do the things we should be doing as a society. It's a shame that we live in what is arguably the most prosperous county in the world and people can still go broke due to an illness.

As the old saying goes, "If you have good health, you have everything". The ultimate freedom.



You make a compelling point.

(in reply to ernest10)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Who are more free... Americans or Europeans - 8/17/2013 9:24:38 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ernest10

Which means we need a total overhaul of the health care system. Which leads into our tax system. If everyone, including our fellow citizen's the large corporations, paid their fair share (dare I say flat tax), then we'd have the money to do the things we should be doing as a society. It's a shame that we live in what is arguably the most prosperous county in the world and people can still go broke due to an illness.

As the old saying goes, "If you have good health, you have everything". The ultimate freedom.


so in a system where the ability to make money is exponential you feel that a flat tax is fair? The problem with tax is its not exponential enough.


people go broke due to illness because government got involved. anything government stuck their mitts into fixes a small problem resulting in the extraction of LARGE amounts of money to do so.



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/17/2013 9:27:39 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to ernest10)
Profile   Post #: 220
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