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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 7:23:32 PM   
kdsub


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Sorry tazzy what mayor are you talking about?


quote:

So, we finally get to the point of this thread. Unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, you really cant know what the feeling is


And yes this is my point all along... the facts do not match the line they are walking.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 7:27:48 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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HERE is the mayor I am talking about.

Or

This

Or

This Less than 500 feet from my home.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/20/2013 7:34:05 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 7:37:46 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
FR
One hundred fifty black males and 21 black females killed by other blacks in Chicago this year.
-- Geraldo At Large Report tonight.

SAD

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/20/2013 7:38:16 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 7:43:32 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Although it is my understanding that indentures were always for a set period and the indentured received no pay at all but was legally required to be fed, housed and trained for free.

A rosy picture of the benefits of indentured servitude includes mention that, "those servants that will be industrious may in their time of service gain a competent estate before their freedoms... but this must be gained (as I have said) by industry and affability, not by sloth nor churlish behavior."

Obviously the operative word there is "may" (more typically not) but I accept your correction that "paid" taken in the sense of cash conveyed the wrong impression.

http://www.peterpappas.com/docs/Lesson2b/files/The%20Benefits%20of%20Indentured%20Servitude.doc

Also, many of the whites (including women and children) who ended up being shipped to the colonies as labor were not inveigled into indenture but simply kidnapped and sold outright.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/20/2013 8:00:54 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 7:45:24 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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Are you asking if you should move?

Often the answer is yes.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 7:46:54 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Sorry tazzy what mayor are you talking about?


quote:

So, we finally get to the point of this thread. Unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, you really cant know what the feeling is


And yes this is my point all along... the facts do not match the line they are walking.

Butch


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/man-found-guilty-in-murder-of-washington-park-mayor/article_bcbfe810-90b2-11e1-8ca5-001a4bcf6878.html

And the facts actually do. Facts I, seemingly a white woman, have witnessed in multiple places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Pittsburgh_police_shootings

2 white officers, one black, killed by a white man.

Jordan Miles... young college kid.. walking home one night... brutally beaten by 3 white officers. Criminal case still pending, city settled civil suit with Miles.

Takign a partial snap shot of the US doesnt help anyone.

For example... your "friend" made the claim about shoplifting....

A progressive retailer has numerous inventory controls in effect and at several levels. Every store should know what departments and which product lines have the greatest inventory loss based on audits, product movement analysis reports, shoplifter apprehensions, and by finding signs of theft. Professional retail loss prevention personnel are trained to know what day of the week, what time of day, what product lines, and what department will have the most shoplifting activity. Armed with this data, loss prevention personnel set out to observe shopper “conduct” in the most active areas and during the most active times. Profiling like this makes perfect business sense because it is legal and a good business practice.

There are other types of profiling based on store apprehension histories and industry experience that has taught LP professionals who to "include" and who to "exclude" when scanning the store for potential shoplifters. For example, one profile is that people rarely shoplift while in the presence of their spouse, significant other, or parents. After scanning these persons they might quickly be bypassed as theft candidates. Shoplifting is a crime of opportunity and desire. Trained loss prevention staff will spend most of their time observing those customers whose conduct demonstrates both opportunity and desire. For example, a customer standing alone in a remote aisle, carrying a large empty shopping bag, and looking from side-to-side would be immediately suspicious until their conduct proves otherwise.

A customer wearing tattered shoes might appear suspicious in a self-service shoe department until their conduct disproved a lack of desire to steal. A customer walking across a store carrying a small electronic item partially concealed in the palm of their hand might seem suspicious until several opportunities passed to conceal the product. In contrast, a customer wearing tailored shorts and a t-shirt may have the desire to steal, but will have little opportunity to conceal a large item of merchandise they are carrying. Based on profiling and shopper conduct, the professional plain-clothes security officer will scan thousands of customers a day and determine that 99% of them are legitimate shoppers.

Surveillance is Necessary

Believe me, merchants don’t like monitoring their customers to prevent theft, but they know that it’s a matter of economic survival. Merchants know that closely watching customers is bad public relations if done crudely. However, the retail industry loses over 31.3-Billion dollars every year and shoplifting represents about one-third of it. Customer surveillance is limited to the public areas where there is no expectation of privacy as opposed to inside fitting rooms and restrooms that are considered private areas. Knowing that you are under surveillance is an uneasy feeling. No one likes being watched and being made to feel like you’re not trustworthy. However, if trained professionals do the surveillance properly, most people will never realize they were observed while shopping. A problem can arise when untrained or unqualified security, loss prevention or off-duty police undertake the task of store surveillance. The majority of the complaints of racial profiling that I have seen in retail stores have to do with the perception of being stalked throughout the store in an effort to intimidate them into leaving.

Racial Profiling

Racial profiling is an improper and illegal practice based on the mistaken belief that certain ethnic groups are more likely to shoplift than others. Because of this, misguided store employees will focus their surveillance time on the customer's “color” rather than “conduct”. Racial bias can blind store personnel and cause them to monitor only the ethic minorities and ignore the real source of their inventory losses. Racial profiling eventually leads to a pattern of false theft accusations, wrongful detentions, and harassment when no real probable cause exists. The result is that a particular ethic group will be made to feel like they can't be trusted and are unwelcome in the store. African Americans call it "shopping while black". Unless the wrongful conduct is corrected by management, civil rights violations will occur and false arrest lawsuits will follow and sorely damage the reputation of the retailer.

Customer surveillance based solely on the race of a customer is not only improper but is an ineffective method of controlling losses due to shoplifting. The thought of racial profiling is distasteful. A 1999 Gallup poll confirmed that 81% of Americans disapprove of the practice. Despite this belief, the same poll indicated that 75% of African American men said they had been victims of racial profiling while shopping.

Most major retailers have published policies against discriminatory acts but few that I've seen specifically address racial profiling by it's security personnel. Not surprisingly, incidents are occurring, which feeds the question of how much racial profiling exists in retail stores? For example, in one major department store the security staff used radio codes (code 3) as an alert anytime a black shopper came into the area. In another store, 90% of the shoplifting apprehensions were of ethnic customers where the store demographic reports only showed a 15% minority customer base. And in still another store, sales associates were told by security officers to call them anytime an ethnic minority entered their sales area.


http://www.crimedoctor.com/shoplifting5.htm

Its a bit long, but shop lifters are just as likely to be women as men.... they are also just as likely to be pulling a prank (kids), to be compulsive (mostly women), and to be rich (how many starlets have we seen caught shoplifting?)

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 7:49:05 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

FR
One hundred fifty black males and 21 black females killed by other blacks in Chicago this year.
-- Geraldo At Large Report tonight.

SAD



HERE is our story

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 7:52:30 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Before the African slave trade got into full swing, the need for labor in the colonies was supplied by white slaves. They were mainly Irish, though many were shipped from Britain and Scotland as well. There was in some cases a pretense of indenture and eventual manumission, but in the meantime they were property. They could be bought and sold as chattel. And in practice, few lived long enough or were paid enough ever to see the light of freedom.


One of my ancestors was a transportee to the Georgia colony right after it was founded. He was indentured to one of the colony's founders and promptly fled.

Although it is my understanding that indentures were always for a set period and the indentured received no pay at all but was legally required to be fed, housed and trained for free.

One of my direct ancestors was sold to a Baltimore shipmaster in 1888 at the age of seven. He was then resold to a chimneysweep in Baltimore as one of the boys who would climb up the flues to knock down the larger accumulations. My family genealogy shows him dying at the age of 23, of 'consumption'. Kindly note the date for future reference when the inevitable subject of slave reparations comes up. Also note the picture to the left. Thank you.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 7:54:21 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

One of my direct ancestors was sold to a Baltimore shipmaster in 1888 at the age of seven.

Poor kid. Who sold him?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 7:57:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Before the African slave trade got into full swing, the need for labor in the colonies was supplied by white slaves. They were mainly Irish, though many were shipped from Britain and Scotland as well. There was in some cases a pretense of indenture and eventual manumission, but in the meantime they were property. They could be bought and sold as chattel. And in practice, few lived long enough or were paid enough ever to see the light of freedom.


One of my ancestors was a transportee to the Georgia colony right after it was founded. He was indentured to one of the colony's founders and promptly fled.

Although it is my understanding that indentures were always for a set period and the indentured received no pay at all but was legally required to be fed, housed and trained for free.

One of my direct ancestors was sold to a Baltimore shipmaster in 1888 at the age of seven. He was then resold to a chimneysweep in Baltimore as one of the boys who would climb up the flues to knock down the larger accumulations. My family genealogy shows him dying at the age of 23, of 'consumption'. Kindly note the date for future reference when the inevitable subject of slave reparations comes up. Also note the picture to the left. Thank you.

I assume you know that Georgia was a penal colony, like Australia.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:01:01 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Tazzy the mayor of Washington park was black... so was his accused killer... tried in front his peers...what has that to do with anything I have stated?


Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/20/2013 8:02:47 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:01:21 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

FR
One hundred fifty black males and 21 black females killed by other blacks in Chicago this year.
-- Geraldo At Large Report tonight.

SAD



HERE is our story

Butch

That is pretty awful. Butch.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:03:05 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
If you live in a changing neighborhood- get out while you can.

3 in my family lost alot of house value when the neighborhood went.

When someone wants to be a victem- no matter what you do for them- it is not enough.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:06:28 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
It is vince...I cannot and am not trying to apply my areas truth to the rest of the US as tazzy seems to think I am ...nor am I defending my white friends perceptions... I am just telling it like it is and I am guessing it is much the same throughout the US.

But just a guess and opinion... and that is sad as well

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/20/2013 8:07:13 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:08:24 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Tazzy the mayor of Washington park was black... so was his accused killer... tried in front his peers...what has that to do with anything I have stated?


Butch


You mentioned a mayor... thats the most recent one.

Im really starting to question your bias here. Are you saying that because that mayor is black he isnt someone you wish to discuss here? Is it only white victims you are concerned about?

Im not accusing.... your responses just seem... odd.

And you ignored the rest of my post.


< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/20/2013 8:09:00 PM >


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:10:30 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

It is vince...I cannot and am not trying to apply my areas truth to the rest of the US as tazzy seems to think I am ...nor am I defending my white friends perceptions... I am just telling it like it is and I am guessing it is much the same throughout the US.


Do you are "guessing" your experiences there are the same as the rest of the country, but you arent trying to apply your area truths to the rest of the US?

How exactly does that work?



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:11:22 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
No I am saying the mayor was black... killed by a black... tried in front of a black jury...and convicted by them...so few whites and discrimination by whites could be involved. So it has nothing to do with my posts.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:12:08 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No I am saying the mayor was black... killed by a black... tried in front of a black jury...and convicted by them...so few whites and discrimination by whites could be involved. So it has nothing to do with my posts.

Butch


Which one?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:12:30 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
No tazzy... you need to read my opening statement again then get back to me.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:15:04 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Here I'll repost it for you


"So I am going to get personal… by personal I mean my experience and experiences of some of my friends. I am only going to comment on a few issues in my home town that are in the news now and a few basic thoughts that are common among friends. I do not mean the following comments to be comprehensive or representative of any but those mentioned."

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 40
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