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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:16:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I read your OP. Then I read the following....

quote:

quote:

It is vince...I cannot and am not trying to apply my areas truth to the rest of the US as tazzy seems to think I am ...nor am I defending my white friends perceptions... I am just telling it like it is and I am guessing it is much the same throughout the US.


Guessing is assuming... and your assumptions are wrong... I gave you examples to match your own.... yet you still want to "guess" that its "much the same throughout the US".

How many other places have you lived?





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Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:20:42 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Tazzy... I am talking about my and my friends perceptions...and only them as I stated... I also stated I am not defending them but telling them as they are in my area... quit trying to make more of what I am saying simply to argue.

The facts on crime speak for themselves... make of them what you choose but you can't change them... What my friends think of these facts are what I am posting... what you make of them is up to you.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:25:04 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I gave you examples to match your own


Match my own what?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:32:52 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Then its quite simple... dont say you guess its true for the rest of the country...

quote:

I am just telling it like it is and I am guessing it is much the same throughout the US.


quote:

Match my own what?


Butch, I take back what i said about you and racism. I do wish you luck with this thread, and truly hope you find whatever answers you find palatable.



< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/20/2013 8:33:53 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:34:02 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		FR
From the NY Times online edition:

"Thousands gathered in dozens of cities to mourn the unarmed black teenager shot to death early last year, and to join a debate on race that his death has set off"

A debate? Really? If there is a debate it is one-sided, demanding action by white people that they cannot deliver, failing to look critically at black gangsta culture and the negative stereotypes it engenders, and failing to ask white folks what their concerns are. I am really weary of the whole Trayvon crusade. An attempt to nullify the jury verdict, the verdict demanded by the evidence and the Law, and for what purpose? Will black children dedicate themselves to study longer for school? Will they disband their gangs and stop selling drugs on the street corners? Will they reject the misogyney and racism of gangsta hip hop? It all seems to be just the same old blacks as victims tune. I suspect there is a silent backlash that Butch has given voice to and which I support. A backlash against these unjustified protests. The verdict was proper. Trayvon was no saint. IMO.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/20/2013 8:38:25 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:35:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

An attempt to nullify the jury verdict


If you wish to engage me on these topics, you will have to do so on another thread. I wont participate on this one any longer.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:36:37 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		nm

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/20/2013 8:39:00 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:46:45 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Are we, meaning my friends, right about the problems of blacks not being our fault? I think not… as I’ve stated before the problems of many African Americans are systematic and have many origins and not so easy to fix…. But….there is no excuse not to support schools… keep children out of gangs and off the streets… support their local police…demand community action to stop the killing…in other words take responsibility of their own lives and stop blaming others for their problems.

Here, I think, we come to one of the thorniest issues in American life: sorting out what responsibility lies where for a (formerly?) oppressed minority population.

A few questions come to mind. I've no illusion of easy answers to any of them.

-- What's the half-life of the effects of slavery and Jim Crow? Of poverty?
-- How important are role models in inculcating positive behaviors? Where do those role models come from?
-- Is there such a thing as a "black community"? If so, what role can it play in uplift?
-- How much of an individual's fate stems from his or her own actions?
-- What role does plain old luck play in all this?


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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:50:16 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		tazzy I know I am taking a chance with my...absolutely admittedly, guesses about the rest of the country and it is just that a guess. I am only going on my friends views of hard cold sad statistics around St Louis. I make no claim to be right.

The chance I am taking is coming off racists and who knows maybe I am without even realizing it...But I did bring this thread up not to promote argument about if I am right or wrong but to talk about perceptions that are not often discussed because to do so is risking being labeled a racists. I do believe and so do many I'm sure that blacks need to look inward as well as outward to solve their problems... As far as I can see and many of my friends at least agree they are not doing that and it is killing them.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:55:07 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		dcnovice I think we are moving in jerks and sprints and two backward steps and three forward to solving the real problems you have stated...but along the way all... black and white both... have refused to give up their stereotypes of each other... This is what really needs to change.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 8:59:08 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		what about gangs?

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 9:04:23 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

-- What's the half-life of the effects of slavery and Jim Crow? Of poverty?

Well given that a lot of whites today were descended from slaves, even including some posting to this thread, I think that's pretty much a non-starter. As for the effects of poverty, the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education evaluated that premise:

But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board's 2005 data on the SAT:

• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.

• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.

• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.

The Widening Racial Scoring Gap

K.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 9:06:32 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

what about gangs?

They come in all colors.

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 9:09:26 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Wouldn't it be great if every time a black was murdered by another black there would be the same outrage and demonstration. Imagine how much more good it would do to protest the thousands of murders and demand action rather than the one killing that no where near represents the killing of black youth in America...

Yet they waste this energy on a stereotype that DOES NOT EXIST in any great numbers and ignore the black on black killings every day. To me this is a form of racism. Its like saying..."we are going to ignore facts because we want to believe whites are still holding us back and killing us...it is not our fault... it is yours."

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/20/2013 9:16:21 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 9:21:19 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
First crime…

Well.. there are different types of crime.. poor black people tend to engage in low level, higher violent, less profitable crime..
Rich, usually white people, engage in higher level, less violent, much higher profit crime.. you know.. embezzeling money from their company or employer.. ponzi schemes (like Madoff, etc).. insider trading.. fraud (like Enron).. stealing customer's money (like MF Global).. stuff like that..
I think what needs to happen here is poor black people need to get much better education so they can commit the higher level higher profit crime like whites do..

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 9:26:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

so they can commit the higher level higher profit crime like whites do..


tj...that's really below you...bad bad

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 9:33:21 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

what about gangs?

They come in all colors.



what about "youths"?

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 9:38:00 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

so they can commit the higher level higher profit crime like whites do..


tj...that's really below you...bad bad

Butch

I was being sarcastic..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 9:40:29 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I knew that... so was I.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 10:01:48 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Well given that a lot of whites today were descended from slaves, even including some posting to this thread, I think that's pretty much a non-starter. [/size]

I don't think you can really compare a generation of involuntary servitude to centuries of it in a foreign culture followed by another century of systematic oppression and terrorism.

I don't excuse the ills of urban black culture but I do not think it wise to completely reject the hand the rest of society had in creating it. The civil rights era generation strove to advance in society and in most cases got nowhere for their trouble. Then of course is the issue of white flight, in areas where integration of schools and neighborhoods occurred whites uniformly moved away and took their kids out of public school. However they didn't simply leave the school system, in many cases they kept their power on the school boards which then routinely reduced funding and let buildings crumble and the educators do without the most basic of supplies. Is it any surprise that the next generation was angry and rejected the norms of the rest of society? Now it seems the cycle of a downward spiral seems unbreakable and I truly cannot think of anything to be done.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 60
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