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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 10:04:15 PM

pahunkboy

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Why do people think blacks were the only slaves?

The Egyptians enslaved the Jews.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 10:19:51 PM

tj444

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I have thought about the black/white thing for some time and I dont know what the answer is.. I am an outsider.. I grew up never meeting a black person until I was living on my own so I never had any preconceived ideas about them.. there are very few in Western Canada and they are not a problem, they are just as law abiding and productive as anyone else..

Here (Houston).. about half the population are black and the poverty is staggering.. I can not personally comment on crime here since I have no experience with any.. but when someone is very poor they lack options, they live on the edge of homelessness, some live on the street and they go to the food bank or soup kitchens, and sometimes they do desperate things.. when kids see their parents struggling day after day, year after year, and they dont seem to get ahead.. I can see how kids can think working hard is pointless and they choose the wrong path.. throw in cheap drugs to dull pain and if the brain isnt fried, the person is addicted and as desperate as a person can be.. It is a difficult problem to fix cuz its gotten worse, I think, especially with the depression-recession Bush left behind.. too many people/families lost everything.. its hard to tell a kid that doesnt see any reward for hard work & an education that is the path he/she should follow..

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 10:22:09 PM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Why do people think blacks were the only slaves?

The Egyptians enslaved the Jews.

Actually, in a 2005 History Channel program called "Bible Battles", Dr. Richard Gabriel makes a pretty good case for the Hebrews not being slaves but instead (I don't know the correct spelling but it's pronounced:) "~~Corvay~~ (I looked it up; Corvee) labor" (after being paid mercenaries and then, conscripted by Pharoah).

L'chaim,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 7/20/2013 10:29:22 PM >

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 10:24:17 PM

pahunkboy

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Nope. Sorry.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 10:33:11 PM

ChateauEldri

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At one point in time or another, every group has been a slave. I can't think of a single ethnicity that hasn't been enslaved and repressed at some point somewhere.

Technically speaking almost all of Europe was a slave state at one point. Surfs could be bought and sold as property between nobles in most European countries throughout the Middle Ages. Various Native American societies enslaved others. Wars almost anywhere usually resulted in slaves until very, very recently...

I feel that the reason people in the US associate blacks as the only slaves was because Africans were the mass market slaves. Black slavery was the most wide spread in the New World, and the one happening when abolition occurred in the US. The US of A was supposed to be a civilized country founded on freedom and liberty, yet we held slaves to the point that it took a massive, bloody civil war to end the practice. I would venture to say that a large amount of early racism stemmed from the pain and suffering the nation went through during our civil war. Hell, what we are experiencing could still be echos of that war and the century of collective cognitive dissonance that proceeded it.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 10:40:01 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I don't excuse the ills of urban black culture but I do not think it wise to completely reject the hand the rest of society had in creating it.

I didn't mean to do that, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. The only point I intended to make was that the "slavery" dog won't hunt. Many of the blacks who were marched to the ships walked at the end of a spear. And even free blacks themselves owned slaves, as was perfectly within their right to do, including white slaves, a fact that some whites found disturbing and against which Virginia enacted a law:

Whereas it hath been questioned whither Indians or negroes manumitted, or otherwise free, could be capable of purchasing christian servants, It is enacted that noe negro or Indian though baptized and enjoyned their owne ffreedome shall be capable of any such purchase of christians, but yet not debarred from buying any of their owne nation. ~1670, Act V, Statues: 2: 280-281

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/20/2013 11:11:32 PM >

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 10:54:02 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

the disparity of tax support

I've long wondered why education is often funded in a way that seems guaranteed to deepen class differences.

I am not sure how you can even it out, at least here. The schools all get federal and state funding. Then the cities tax their share depending on how much the voters are willing to allow. In the city I grew up in they pay a lot more in taxes for education than they do in Detroit. In order to even the two you would have to either make detroiters pay more every time that city voted to raise the millage or not allow the millage to go up unless Detroit agreed to. Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying I don't see how it could work.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 11:14:02 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

what about gangs?

They come in all colors.

what about "youths"?

They come in all colors also.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 11:38:57 PM

Termyn8or

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quote:

Why do people think blacks were the only slaves?

The Egyptians enslaved the Jews.

That was punishment.

Not that they didn't make use of them mind you.........

T^T

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/20/2013 11:50:20 PM

Termyn8or

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quote:

yet we held slaves to the point that it took a massive, bloody civil war to end the practice.

Not quite, though a common misconception. Lincoln had no desire to free the slaves, but it just so happened it was about time.

Before the civil war there were abolitionist states in the south as well as slave states in the north. Slavery one only one of a few issues that caused the civil war. One of the biggest ones was - again as Hunky would say - money. The monied in the south did not like several of the things that the federal government was doing. There was also quite a bit of animousity over certain tariffs and things that seemed to be designed to relieve the southern old money of everything but the southern and the old. There were abunch of acts and laws passed that didn't sit well with the southern states as well that were completely outside of the realm of slaveholding.

I will not go so far as to say the slavery was a tertiary issue, but it was not the only issue by far. The real main issue is that they saw the federal government's actions as a threat to the stability of the currency, of which they had a bunch.

Slavery would have ended anyway because it was a ripoff. It was cheaper to just pay people to do the work. You didn't have to house them, mend them or anything. They left with their pay and their problems. To own a slave was a big investment and it wasn't really paying off. They figured that out too late though.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 1:23:47 AM

MrBukani

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Poverty is a bitch.
How many white to black serial killers we got in the USA?
Profiling is needed to solve crimes period.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 2:32:13 AM

Termyn8or

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I hate to make yet another racist remark, it seems White serial killers are more prominent, perhaps because they plan better and get away with it longer.

Others on the other hand just kill right at the spur of the moment which is a ticket to the joint every time. The five Ps - Proper Planning Prevents Pennitentiary Punishment lol.

T^T

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 3:19:23 AM

metamorfosis

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I'm almost afraid to ask why you think there are so few women serial killers.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 3:34:11 AM

chatterbox24

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Speaking of St. Louis!!!

My first impression of St Louis, years ago, was a trip I took with my sister, her two kids, and a young niece to the zoo. After the long trip, we entered to use the restroom facilities, directing in front of the bathroom were a large group of 7 or 8 black adults, men and woman, standing in front of the doors, intimidating whites as they wanted to enter. Shortly security came, and they were escorted LOUDLY off the property. I have no idea what all of it was about, but it left a lasting impression! I haven't been back since.

I haven't thought about that experience in years and it reminded me, I wasn't in Kansas anymore. (reference to the wizard of oz) lol

I am in no way prejudice, my nephew is an athlete and I just had a party for him at my home with his mixed culture friends. I don't base my attitude on color, but on the individual.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 3:43:46 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Before the African slave trade got into full swing, the need for labor in the colonies was supplied by white slaves. They were mainly Irish, though many were shipped from Britain and Scotland as well. There was in some cases a pretense of indenture and eventual manumission, but in the meantime they were property. They could be bought and sold as chattel. And in practice, few lived long enough or were paid enough ever to see the light of freedom.

The white slave trade in America preceded and continued for a time alongside the trade in African slaves. White slaves were cheaper than African slaves. But as the colonies grew, even the wholesale rape of Ireland could not supply sufficient labor. Note, too, that in addition to the trans-Atlantic slave trade, whites in southern Europe routinely fell victim to a flourishing Mediterranean slave trade.

And, it wasn't just whites who owned slaves in America. Blacks and Indians also owned slaves, including white slaves. So claims that the history of black slavery in America supports some kind of special entitlement for blacks, or excuses or explains the violent and dysfunctional sub-culture within the black community that is responsible almost half of our entire national homicide rate, are pure and unmitigated bunk.

The Irish Slave Trade - The Forgotten White Slaves: The slaves that time forgot
When Europeans were Slaves: Research suggests white slavery was much more common than previously believed

K.

It is nonsense to suggest the majority of indentured/transported whites in the US were Irish. Most were convicts, many were children kidnapped of off the streets of the major British cities. Almost all were the poor. Many were tradesmen such as carpenters arrested on trumped up charges and sent to plantations to work. Transportation as such stopped in America in 1776. It carried on right up until the 1850s in Australia though. Right up until the 1970s children from orphanages were being sent to Australia, ostensibly for a better laugh, but more often than not hard work and abuse was the norm.

Its an irony and a disgrace that long after slavery was abolished in the UK, Parliament refsued to ban sending ten year olds up chimneys, as they were considered property of the bosses.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 3:47:45 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR
Much of the issues with crime is not so much African Americans but a problem of poverty and lack of perceived social mobility. In the big northern metropolises crime is most often committed by minorities because they make up the bulk of the lower class in those areas. Got to the rural south, for instance, and the crimes are mostly committed by whites because they are the bulk of the poor in those areas.

We have created a society where education is not valued and that results in young people who see no future for themselves and naturally some of them turn to crime. In the urban areas it may be selling drugs and robbery. In the rural areas it is making drugs, cooking meth is a huge problem in many rural areas, and a variety of other criminal activities that lead to violence probably at the same rate as it does elsewhere.

Nice post Ken. It sums up my thinking about crime and causes in the UK as well. Greed and easy money also comes into it, but at the level of petty crime, poverty is almost always involved.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 3:51:48 AM

chatterbox24

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White slavery? You want to read some interesting stuff, read about the history of the coal mine industry, and how coal miners were left indebted to the companies, back in the day. The only difference was exchange of money was involved, but check the system out, it wasn't much different then black slavery, if you take the concept that wages were being truly offered. Ha, laughable.

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 3:54:27 AM

chatterbox24

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whoops double post.

< Message edited by chatterbox24 -- 7/21/2013 3:55:41 AM >

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 4:54:33 AM

kdsub

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There is of course merit in what you say...but as I've stated we have large populations of minorities that are just as poor that do not have the crime as in African American neighborhoods. I believe it is a way of looking at life that comes from past discrimination that is no longer as prevalent. They are like soldiers ducking at every loud noise when they are back home and safe. There is a mind set that all police and white people are out to get them and they would rather live with crime than point the criminals out to the police. They are seeing discrimination everywhere and at every turn when it is most often just life passing by.

Butch

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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 5:57:51 AM

vincentML

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quote:

Not quite, though a common misconception. Lincoln had no desire to free the slaves, but it just so happened it was about time.

You mischaracterize Lincoln. He was quite clear in the Lincoln/Douglas debates he thought the black man should be free but not free to mingle with whites.

The issue of expansion of the Slave Power existed from the ratification of the Constitution as evidenced by the Congressional contests that occurred for eighty years. Lincoln was above all a pragmatic politician. He aimed to do what was possible. He knew white boys would not rally to the cause of emancipation. Witness the draft riots in NYC, 1863 where white mobs attacked and killed blacks. The Emancipation Proclamation was carefully crafted to include emancipation only in those regions under rule by Union forces.

quote:

Slavery would have ended anyway because it was a ripoff. It was cheaper to just pay people to do the work. You didn't have to house them, mend them or anything. They left with their pay and their problems. To own a slave was a big investment and it wasn't really paying off. They figured that out too late though.

Probably so, thanks to the industrial revolution and the onset of factory wage slavery as you rightly point out. However, slavery continued to exist in the South well into the 20th C through the prison farm system.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/21/2013 5:59:24 AM >

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