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RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 8:16:52 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Blacks only seem to have a greater amount of robberies according to 2011 crime stats:

I don't think you are interpreting the data correctly. Blacks comprise about 13% of the total population, and all else being equal would be expected to account for about 13% of the crime rate. But in the data you linked, the only categories where this is true are driving under the influence, liquor law violations, and drunkenness. In every other category, blacks are over-represented by a factor of nearly 2 to over 4 times expectation.

In comparison, whites comprise about 78% of the total population and are under-represented in every crime category except driving under the influence, liquor law violations, and drunkenness. For example, in your linked data whites commited homicides at a rate of 0.61 times expectation, while blacks commited homicides at a rate of 3.82 times expectation. Thus, blacks commited homicides at more than 6 times the white rate.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/21/2013 9:03:43 PM >

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 101

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/21/2013 9:15:22 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Not talking factors, talking just the whole numbers. The OP used straight percentages, so I used just the straight numbers.

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Post #: 102

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 3:42:14 AM

DaddySatyr

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Okay. I'll try:

European-Americans (white) are about 78% of the total population

African Americans (black) are about 13% of the population.

Given? Okay. Then, if we take just one little fact (Because I'm not going to break them all down for you):

quote:

The percentages of white adults and black adults arrested for murder were similar, with 48.2 percent being white, and 49.4 percent being black

So, if whites were 48.2% of the population and blacks were 49.4%, then you could say (for example): "Whites and blacks are just as likely to have as many murderers amongst their population"

But, since blacks are only 13% of the population, they have an inordinate representation in the crime statistics (49.4%).

I have to admit that I don't put a whole lot of stock in arrest numbers since I believe in "innocent until proven guilty" but, I am confident that the conviction rates are somewhere within this same range.

Certainly, a quick trip through any jail will show you that there are far more "ethnic" inmates than white inmates. While I agree that might be proven to represent some small amount of racism in specific cases, the way our justice system is set up, there just aren't that many innocent people in jail (unless, of course, one polls the inmates).

Lock 'em all up and throw away the key,

Michael

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Post #: 103

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 6:53:58 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

While I agree that might be proven to represent some small amount of racism in specific cases...

Without denying the effects of racism, the value of homicide statistics lies in the fact that it's difficult to plant a dead body in somebody's pocket.

K.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 104

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 7:08:47 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Without denying the effects of racism, the value of homicide statistics lies in the fact that it's difficult to plant a dead body in somebody's pocket.

K.

Oh, I agree but I am willing to allow for some small percentage of possible racism.

Purely as an example: I firmly believe that someone planted OJ's bloody glove.

Was it racism? I think there's the possibility that Furman (I think I spelled it right) was a racist. I'm not saying he definitely was but if OJ were convicted in that trial and someone said to me: "I think the bloody glove which led to the conviction is an example of a black man, being in jail because of racism", I could not disagree very strongly.

That's all I meant by allowing for some racism.

The point that there's a dis-proportionate number of black people in jail for violent crimes, even allowing for (let's be liberal, here) 5% being due to racism, still leads us to an alarming number of black violent criminals.

Something has to be done,

Bill Cosby

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 7/22/2013 7:09:38 AM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 105

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 7:18:32 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Before the African slave trade got into full swing, the need for labor in the colonies was supplied by white slaves. They were mainly Irish, though many were shipped from Britain and Scotland as well. There was in some cases a pretense of indenture and eventual manumission, but in the meantime they were property. They could be bought and sold as chattel. And in practice, few lived long enough or were paid enough ever to see the light of freedom.

England wa told by the managers of her colonies in n.america that the white "slaves" were a bunch of useless loafers and that no more should be sent as the black slaves were much more diligent at their labor.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 106

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 7:47:29 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

England wa told by the managers of her colonies in n.america that the white "slaves" were a bunch of useless loafers and that no more should be sent as the black slaves were much more diligent at their labor.

Along the same lines, it has been reported (though perhaps apocryphally) that blacks treated harshly were wont to complain that they were being treated like the Irish.

K.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 107

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 7:49:23 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Along the same lines, it has been reported (though perhaps apocryphally) that blacks treated harshly were wont to complain that they were being treated like the Irish.

K.

A scene from Blazing Saddles just flashed through my mind ...

Regards,

Sheriff Bart

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 7/22/2013 7:56:51 AM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 108

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 10:45:08 AM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

England wa told by the managers of her colonies in n.america that the white "slaves" were a bunch of useless loafers and that no more should be sent as the black slaves were much more diligent at their labor.

Along the same lines, it has been reported (though perhaps apocryphally) that blacks treated harshly were wont to complain that they were being treated like the Irish.

K.

I thought it was also because of the heat of the South and Caribbean region. I could be misremembering, but my understanding was that the heat was too oppressive for the Irish and other northern Europeans to be used for farm labor in tropical and sub-tropical climates. Too many were dying off in the heat.

That's not to say that they didn't use white laborers for other things, such as in mines, mills, cutting timber - under harsh conditions. Whites made up the bulk of the labor force in the North, where slavery was supposedly outlawed - but that didn't exactly make it a workers' paradise either.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 109

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 10:59:48 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Before the African slave trade got into full swing, the need for labor in the colonies was supplied by white slaves. They were mainly Irish, though many were shipped from Britain and Scotland as well. There was in some cases a pretense of indenture and eventual manumission, but in the meantime they were property. They could be bought and sold as chattel. And in practice, few lived long enough or were paid enough ever to see the light of freedom.

The white slave trade in America preceded and continued for a time alongside the trade in African slaves. White slaves were cheaper than African slaves. But as the colonies grew, even the wholesale rape of Ireland could not supply sufficient labor. Note, too, that in addition to the trans-Atlantic slave trade, whites in southern Europe routinely fell victim to a flourishing Mediterranean slave trade.

And, it wasn't just whites who owned slaves in America. Blacks and Indians also owned slaves, including white slaves. So claims that the history of black slavery in America supports some kind of special entitlement for blacks, or excuses or explains the violent and dysfunctional sub-culture within the black community that is responsible almost half of our entire national homicide rate, are pure and unmitigated bunk.

The Irish Slave Trade - The Forgotten White Slaves: The slaves that time forgot
When Europeans were Slaves: Research suggests white slavery was much more common than previously believed

K.

I noticed this disclaimer on the first site
Disclaimer: The contents of this article are of sole responsibility of the author(s). The Centre for Research on Globalization will not be responsible for any inaccurate or incorrect statement in this article. The Center of Research on Globalization grants permission to cross-post original Global Research articles on community internet sites as long as the text & title are not modified. The source and the author's copyright must be displayed. For publication of Global Research articles in print or other forms including commercial internet sites, contact: [email protected]

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 110

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 11:01:17 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Why do people think blacks were the only slaves?

Only those who lack either a pulse or a three digit iq believe that.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 111

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 11:05:41 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

yet we held slaves to the point that it took a massive, bloody civil war to end the practice.

Not quite, though a common misconception. Lincoln had no desire to free the slaves, but it just so happened it was about time.

Before the civil war there were abolitionist states in the south

Which states were those?

quote:

as well as slave states in the north.

Were those the ones which were exempt from the emancipation proclamation?

quote:

Slavery would have ended anyway because it was a ripoff. It was cheaper to just pay people to do the work. You didn't have to house them, mend them or anything. They left with their pay and their problems. To own a slave was a big investment and it wasn't really paying off. They figured that out too late though.

T^T

That seems counter intuitive...would you have anything to validate this opinion?

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 112

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 11:07:51 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

England wa told by the managers of her colonies in n.america that the white "slaves" were a bunch of useless loafers and that no more should be sent as the black slaves were much more diligent at their labor.

Along the same lines, it has been reported (though perhaps apocryphally) that blacks treated harshly were wont to complain that they were being treated like the Irish.

K.

My research has indicated that blacks who complained about being treated harshly were murdered.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 113

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 11:16:25 AM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
While I agree that might be proven to represent some small amount of racism in specific cases

The fact that there is uneven enforcement, prosecution, and sentencing in the US legal system particularly as it relates to drug crimes although also other areas isn't really a matter of debate. Then again, lots of things which shouldn't be a matter of debate are. I have no idea how it works out for murder. But drug charges are heavily racially biased... heavily.

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 114

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 12:05:02 PM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
While I agree that might be proven to represent some small amount of racism in specific cases

The fact that there is uneven enforcement, prosecution, and sentencing in the US legal system particularly as it relates to drug crimes although also other areas isn't really a matter of debate. Then again, lots of things which shouldn't be a matter of debate are. I have no idea how it works out for murder. But drug charges are heavily racially biased... heavily.

I absolutely agree that drug sentencing is racially biased ... except ... If you know that powder cocaine carries lesser penalties, why would you continue to sell/use crack? To make a point?

I don't use drugs and haven't had anything heavier than an aspirin in 25 years (or more). I was specifically talking about violent crimes (for which there's mandatory minimums also). So, here's a thought: How about if people stop committing violent crimes? Wouldn't that be nice?

Why bitch about the jail time if you did the crime in spite of the risk.

For clarification: I don't think it's the government's business what we put into our bodies so, I'd like to see all drug laws abolished.

Peace,

Timothy Leary

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 115

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 2:17:37 PM

truckinslave

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quote:

We have created a society where education is not valued

We... who? (We whom?)

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 116

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 2:20:05 PM

truckinslave

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I am all but praying for one of these roving "Knockout Game" gangs of thugs to run into an armed man who slips the first punch.
Maybe leave six or seven on the ground, dead or maimed

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 7/22/2013 2:57:26 PM >

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 117

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 2:21:44 PM

truckinslave

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It's not different economics.
It's different cultures.
And anyone who believes that there is not a distinctive black culture in America is willfully ignorant.
The divide is growing...

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 118

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 2:31:17 PM

truckinslave

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quote:

Takign a partial snap shot of the US doesnt help anyone.

David Horowitz, civil rights icon, friend of MLK, etc etc... in Hating Whitey, proved that a black male between the ages of (I think) 16 and 25 was 43 times.., not 43%, not 430%, but 4,300% more likely to be involved in a wrongful death (murder, manslaughter, whatever) than any other similarly identifiable group.

43 times

Nationally

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 119

RE: The hidden backlash…what many white Americans I k... - 7/22/2013 2:40:41 PM

JeffBC

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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Takign a partial snap shot of the US doesnt help anyone.

David Horowitz, civil rights icon, friend of MLK, etc etc... in Hating Whitey, proved that a black male between the ages of (I think) 16 and 25 was 43 times.., not 43%, not 430%, but 4,300% more likely to be involved in a wrongful death (murder, manslaughter, whatever) than any other similarly identifiable group.

43 times

Nationally

I think the question being raised here (at least by some) is, "yeah, but who's fault is that?" The numbers being put forward suggest that blacks are doing this to themselves.

My personal position is that I don't care. The number you quoted is offensive to me aesthetically if for no other reason. So I want to get beyond who's fault it is and understand why it's happening and what we need to do to change it. Of course I have to laugh at myself as I say that since a willingness to engage in social engineering is one of the hallmark's of the liberal mindset. It's predictable that I'd question how we could make things better rather than hold on to the status quo.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 120

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