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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/2/2013 5:35:53 PM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
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You're confusing rights with discrimination.


You're welcome.

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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/2/2013 5:40:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Its been said over and over.... apparently while you were gone. Use search.

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If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/2/2013 5:52:21 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

People, do not feed the energy creature...

QFT

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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/2/2013 8:44:58 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		People seem to be overlooking the fact that DV against women doesn't just affect women alone - usually there are children involved, and the children are victims of violence too.

This is one very good reason why DV refuges tend to cater for women. The needs of a woman with children escaping a violent background trump those of a single man because there are children involved, not necessarily because there's a woman involved.

If a male escaping a violent woman was accompanied by the children, I'd say he (and the children) would be entitled to all the support that women (and children) currently receive.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/2/2013 8:49:40 PM >

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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/2/2013 9:02:15 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

Why is it that if men have a right that women don't have, it would be considered sexist to suggest women have to beg for that same right or else they are stuffed.

But the other way around, it's common tactic to tell men they have to beg for a right women have that they don't?

Ya know, how people keep asking me in this forum "what am I doing about it" when I raise a male issue?

Kinda like...


If women want equal pay, they have to beg for it.

If women want no glass ceilings, they have to beg for it.

If women want no patriarchy, they have to beg for it.

Otherwise, it's deserved that males have all these privileges and no woman is ever allowed to complain unless she is willing to beg for it.

It's not allowed to be a topic unless you beg for it, even that males have these rights already.

Your thoughts?




Are we supposed to beg you to actually make sense?



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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/2/2013 9:10:23 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

he is meaning why is it considered sexiest if men has a right say allowed to vote and women do not then its considered sexiest.

Yet, if a women has a right to vote and a man does not, then women dont consider it sexiest.



I'm not sure if you think that it's the sexiest thing to be sexist or not, but you certainly are keeping within the utterly incoherent geist of the OP in any event.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/2/2013 10:07:47 PM >

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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/2/2013 9:39:09 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm
2) Women who commit sex crimes (especially against children) do not end up living under bridges and trash dumps after serving their sentences (if any sentence).


What are you talking about?

I met the two best girlfriends I ever had under the bridge, who coincidentally happened to be the most introspective and at the same time the most lively sex offenders I've ever come across.

I still miss them ...





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/2/2013 9:40:38 PM >

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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/2/2013 10:08:27 PM   
slavekate80


Posts: 362
Joined: 7/4/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

People seem to be overlooking the fact that DV against women doesn't just affect women alone - usually there are children involved, and the children are victims of violence too.

This is one very good reason why DV refuges tend to cater for women. The needs of a woman with children escaping a violent background trump those of a single man because there are children involved, not necessarily because there's a woman involved.

If a male escaping a violent woman was accompanied by the children, I'd say he (and the children) would be entitled to all the support that women (and children) currently receive.


He should get it, but he won't. Most shelters won't take him - or even take him seriously. A woman without children has much better access to help than a man with children.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/3/2013 12:03:56 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Because men arent seen as "being abused". Why is that? They dont report.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/3/2013 12:06:31 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekate80


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

People seem to be overlooking the fact that DV against women doesn't just affect women alone - usually there are children involved, and the children are victims of violence too.

This is one very good reason why DV refuges tend to cater for women. The needs of a woman with children escaping a violent background trump those of a single man because there are children involved, not necessarily because there's a woman involved.

If a male escaping a violent woman was accompanied by the children, I'd say he (and the children) would be entitled to all the support that women (and children) currently receive.

He should get it, but he won't. Most shelters won't take him - or even take him seriously. A woman without children has much better to help than a man with children.


Most DV refuges are grossly underfunded and under resourced. The ones here in Sydney that I am familiar with are usually 100% occupied with waiting lists. Demand permanently exceeds the supply of beds and other resources. I have no reason to believe that the situation in the USA or anywhere else is any different.

Friends who work in this area tell me it breaks their hearts when they are forced to turn away any one in need, regardless of their gender. They know that it usually means the family will be forced to remain with the DV perpetrator and no one wants that for a second. But with grossly inadequate resources, what choice have they got? Scant resources have to be directed towards the largest sector of the target group ie women with children.

If people are seriously concerned about this issue, I urge them to donate either their time, money or unwanted material goods to their local DV shelter. They need all the help they can get.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/3/2013 12:26:14 AM >

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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/3/2013 12:08:19 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Resources grossly inadequate even before they started cutting spending.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/3/2013 4:38:58 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Uhh huh. You're a female rights violator. The only one doing the violating in *my* cheesy porn fantasies is me. Well, except for those other fantasies.

Never mind !



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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/3/2013 4:40:33 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




Are we supposed to beg you to actually make sense?






Made me LOL.

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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/3/2013 6:01:49 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		RE: kids- I totally buy that.

Good points y'all.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/3/2013 11:13:31 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
I met the two best girlfriends I ever had under the bridge, who coincidentally happened to be the most introspective and at the same time the most lively sex offenders I've ever come across.

I still miss them ...



That was a joke, people.

I forget where I am sometimes, but this is a site (as with most political forums) where what one would think to be obvious is in fact not obvious for some.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/3/2013 11:15:40 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/4/2013 3:43:42 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Uhh huh. You're a female rights violator. The only one doing the violating in *my* cheesy porn fantasies is me. Well, except for those other fantasies.

Never mind !





It might just be I am out of arms reach, and indeed, harms way.

Now you got me wondering about those other fantasies. Its no wonder I always seem confused is it....

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/9/2013 10:18:24 PM   
naughtynick81


Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Because men arent seen as "being abused". Why is that? They dont report.


Utter bullshit.

We've been through this before, Tazzy. You appear to be a very ignorant woman.

What about these men?

95.3% of men felt domestic violence agencies were anti-male...40% reported being accused of perpetrating DV when seeking help at said agencies.

http://wordpress.clarku.edu/dhines/files/2012/01/Douglas-Hines-2011-helpseeking-experiences-of-male-victims.pdf


And another study

http://www.saveservices.org/pdf/SAVE-VAWA-Discriminates-Against-Males.pdf

Time to educate yourself, tazzy.

If this was happening the other way around, there would be outrage everywhere. When it happens to men, we hear crickets. If a man does dare to raise this issue, he's a troll, misogynist, whiner etc etc.

Instead of attacking the man who raises the issue, why not acknowledge it instead?






(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/10/2013 3:02:40 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		I read the SAVE-VAWA paper. There appear to me to be some problems with the quality of the paper.

Leaving aside methodological criticisms I could raise, among the matters that troubled me were:
* some 20% of the (male) respondents stated that they were not married to or co-habiting with the alleged (female) batterer - one might wonder what the DV needs of a single male not living with his alleged batterer are ..... ; or
* in incidents where police attended, the police determined that 45% of the (male) complainants were the "primary aggressor". Nonetheless the paper continued to include and consider these "primary aggressors" as 'victims' of DV; or
* there was no data on the number of cases where the victim presented at the DV service with children. Again one might wonder what DV services might be offered to single males that are currently unavailable through existing health/medical services (eg counselling, PTSD therapy).

Despite these rather obvious shortcomings, the level of dissatisfaction reported by the men in the survey is a matter of concern.

If men with DV issues wish to improve the range and quality of services offered, they could take a leaf out of the feminist book. Most DV services came into being as result of women making the case for such services through political action, invariably feminist political action. Thus the way towards establishing such services for men, or improving existing ones to provide better services to men with DV needs is clear - do what women did ie organise politically and demand such services.

I've no doubt that many feminists will be happy to offer such men the benefit of some of the insights they have gained over the years from their own experiences in the area - if the men involved are happy to take such advice. While I do hope I am incorrect, I haven't gained the impression that people with a world view such as that espoused by naughtynick on these boards will be in a rush to listen to or appreciate advice from feminists who have already traveled down this road.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/10/2013 3:15:40 AM >

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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/10/2013 1:25:43 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

......If this was happening the other way around, there would be outrage everywhere. When it happens to men, we hear crickets. If a man does dare to raise this issue, he's a troll, misogynist, whiner etc etc.

Instead of attacking the man who raises the issue, why not acknowledge it instead?




This has been acknowledged several times in this very thread, starting with Bita's post #39. NO ONE denies men are battered.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/10/2013 2:14:18 PM   
naughtynick81


Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
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quote:

I've no doubt that many feminists will be happy to offer such men the benefit of some of the insights they have gained over the years


Yeah, like these feminists

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBFl7YVnydU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XHrUAQEzNg

Men are told to do something about it!....But when they make progress as for having group meetings which leads to the same things feminist groups do, its not allowed!

These people are fucking nutjobs!

< Message edited by naughtynick81 -- 8/10/2013 2:15:00 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 100
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