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RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/12/2013 4:20:04 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

The simple point is that discrediting a man raising the issue is being contradictory if you on the other hand keep shouting "shudap, do something about it. You don't have a right to raise this on this forum blah blah blah"

Men also victims of domestic violence

By Brian Taylor
June 30, 2013

Recent research suggests that around one-third of victims of domestic violence each year are men, the vast majority of which never report their circumstances. It is this stigma that men cannot be — or should not admit to being — a victim of domestic violence, that a concerned citizen, Stephanie Martin, asked me to discuss with the public for this month’s column.

http://www.saveservices.org/2013/07/men-are-victims-of-domestic-violence/

Report the bitch....

Report the bitch.....

Report the bitch....

Keeping your mouth closed only allows her to abuse more....

No different than it would be a man abusing a woman....

If that is victim blaming, then its exactly what I am doing.

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Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Post #: 121

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/12/2013 4:31:06 AM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Men also victims of domestic violence
.....
No different than it would be a man abusing a woman....

If that is victim blaming, then its exactly what I am doing.

Unfortunately Tazzy, you are dead right.
I blame modern society and poorly informed support for the general attitude.

Nick, however, wants to blame everything on male supression by women.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 122

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/12/2013 4:35:38 AM

tazzygirl

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Women get funding because they are in politicians faces.

Women get funding because they report.

There was a time when no matter how severely a woman was beaten, a cop would stand by and simply watch... yes.... just watch.

Men who take the stance that women's rights havent done them any good are obviously stupid....history argues against them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 123

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/12/2013 4:37:42 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Tazzy........ I`m all for womens rights.

Nice arse btw.......

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 124

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 3:46:38 AM

BitYakin

Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
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after reading all 6+ pages of posts here, I actually see the OP's point

you all want to NITPICK individual issues, when the question he is asking as I understand it, isn't about any particular issue, or even set of issues, the question is WHY is it if a man bring up and issue, instead of people saying well lets talk about this issue, they are basicly told by everyone, to SHUT UP and stop whining

80% of the posts in this thread have either been to proclaim ther ARE NO SUCH ISSUES, or to INSULT him for even asking!

ONE SINGLE person said they were willing to talk to him about an issue, and handfull of post admited there was an issue and kinda sorta agreed he might have a point on a couple issues.. but then it comes back around to the fact that he wasn't asking about any of the ISSUES, he was asking WHY if an issue gets brought up, the person who brings it up gets ridiculed for doing it!

1/2 of these posts made a BIG DEAL of wether there even WAS AN ISSUE to be discussed

and BTW I'll tell you a right women ABSOLUTEY HAVE that men do not have, and have been RIDCULED for bringing it up before myself

women have the right to terminate a mans child, men DO NOT have the right to terminate a woman's child!

when I mentioned this in another thread, I was pretty much told I was STUPID for even mentioning it! but it IS an undeniable FACT!

A woman can just DECIDE, to end some mans childs life, and the mans has ZERO POWER or control over it! on the other hand if a man wanted a child be terminated, he'd he told to GET OVER IT AND PAY UP!

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 8/13/2013 3:53:23 AM >

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 125

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 3:54:12 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

A)
yeah, Id agree with that person. you can leave, you can blackmail her into having an abortion(heres 300bucks get rid of it or else) but it is inside HER body, you have FUCK all right to invade her body, If I was to invade your body with a coat hanger Id get life. You have the right to NOT get her pregnant in the first place!!!!!! take it
B) You dont know nicks history, altho most of it has been removed, you might wanna look into it. Weve been thru it before many many times, ...many people have offered advice, help, and support.
WE are mostly fed up with his personal decision to nothing towards resolving ANY issue.

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Post #: 126

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 4:13:27 AM

BitYakin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

A)
yeah, Id agree with that person. you can leave, you can blackmail her into having an abortion(heres 300bucks get rid of it or else) but it is inside HER body, you have FUCK all right to invade her body, If I was to invade your body with a coat hanger Id get life. You have the right to NOT get her pregnant in the first place!!!!!! take it
B) You dont know nicks history, altho most of it has been removed, you might wanna look into it. Weve been thru it before many many times, ...many people have offered advice, help, and support.
WE are mostly fed up with his personal decision to nothing towards resolving ANY issue.

when you say you'd "argee with that person" which person are you saying you'd agree with?

as for the statment of, "You have the right to NOT get her pregnant in the first place!!"
the statment of, "she had the right to NOT let him get her pregnant in the first place!" is just as VALID!

assuming the sex is consentual BOTH PARTIES know the risk, but ONLY ONE party is given the right to CHANGE thier mind AFTER THE FACT!

as for nicks past history, doesn't matter what his history is, it doesn't make the point or question he asked any less valid!

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 8/13/2013 4:19:49 AM >

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 127

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 4:21:05 AM

freedomdwarf1

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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
...women have the right to terminate a mans child, men DO NOT have the right to terminate a woman's child!

Umm, where did you get the weird notion that it is a "man's" child. Huh??

Lets see....
Assuming it's all kosher and wanted by both and it's not rape, it's a 50/50 start.
1 egg and 1 sperm - one part of each donated by the man and women.
But what happens from there??

It's inside the woman, not the man.
The whole process fucks up a woman's body and her hormones - not the man.
It is the women who has to nurture, feed and care for it for 9 months - not the man.
At the end of term, it is the woman that goes through labour and the pains of birth - not the man.
At any time during the pregnancy, it could kill the woman - not the man.

And that's just a summary of events.
Where is the fucking MAN in all this?? Fucking NOWHERE!!!

And that is why the woman has the rights and not the man!

And in case you are wondering - I am a male.

(in reply to BitYakin)

Post #: 128

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 4:24:33 AM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
as for nicks past history, doesn't matter what his history is, it doesn't make the point or question he asked any less valid!

Sorry to contradict you - it has a very pertinent affect on nick and his posts.

Every single one of them is all about women's supremacy over men and that men get a rough deal in society.
He posts nothing else.
He doesn't *want* an answer.
He just wants people to agree with his lop-sided view of the world.

(in reply to BitYakin)

Post #: 129

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 4:26:30 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

A)
yeah, Id agree with that person. you can leave, you can blackmail her into having an abortion(heres 300bucks get rid of it or else) but it is inside HER body, you have FUCK all right to invade her body, If I was to invade your body with a coat hanger Id get life. You have the right to NOT get her pregnant in the first place!!!!!! take it
B) You dont know nicks history, altho most of it has been removed, you might wanna look into it. Weve been thru it before many many times, ...many people have offered advice, help, and support.
WE are mostly fed up with his personal decision to nothing towards resolving ANY issue.

when you say you'd "argee with that person" which person are you saying you'd agree with?

as for the statment of, "You have the right to NOT get her pregnant in the first place!!"
the stament of, "she had the right to NOT let him get her pregnant in the first place!" just as VALID! Not if she is using birth control and you

assuming the sex is constual BOTH PARTIES know the risk, but ONLY ONE party is given the right to CHANGE thier mind AFTER THE FACT!

as for nicks past history, doesn't matter what his history is, it doesn't make the point or question he asked any less valid!

This is what I agreed with

quote:

when I mentioned this in another thread, I was pretty much told I was STUPID for even mentioning it! but it IS an undeniable FACT!

Birth control fails way to often, so STOP having sex or minimise the possibility.... if it fails both parties face consequences. If you can face the consequences of removing her pregnancy...have at it.
PS your edit is a wee bit disingenuous but meh.

Actually, yes, his history DOES have something to do with it. I hadnt commented on his part of the topic up to this point because its pointless to respond with rational thought. He doesnt accept it

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Post #: 130

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 4:56:00 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ONE SINGLE person said they were willing to talk to him about an issue, and handfull of post admited there was an issue and kinda sorta agreed he might have a point on a couple issues.. but then it comes back around to the fact that he wasn't asking about any of the ISSUES, he was asking WHY if an issue gets brought up, the person who brings it up gets ridiculed for doing it!

I have talked, in depth, with him on this issue. It always boils down to how people are not willing to admit that women are the reason men are so badly abused. I cant, and wont, agree with that stance. So he gets angrier.

quote:

women have the right to terminate a mans child, men DO NOT have the right to terminate a woman's child!

..........

A woman can just DECIDE, to end some mans childs life, and the mans has ZERO POWER or control over it! on the other hand if a man wanted a child be terminated, he'd he told to GET OVER IT AND PAY UP!

Let me make this supposition to you. See if we cant get past this issue.

Why are there paternity tests, but no maternity tests? The answer is simple. Motherhood is never in doubt during pregnancy. Fatherhood always is. Possession is 9/10ths of the law... the woman has possession, her rights are never in dispute....

Now, what if that child isnt the "father's"? Should you be allowed to terminate my pregnancy, though we have never met? Like it or not, that is the issue.

quote:

assuming the sex is consentual BOTH PARTIES know the risk, but ONLY ONE party is given the right to CHANGE thier mind AFTER THE FACT!

Exactly, the one whose rights are not in dispute.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BitYakin)

Post #: 131

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 8:08:21 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
but then it comes back around to the fact that he wasn't asking about any of the ISSUES, he was asking WHY if an issue gets brought up, the person who brings it up gets ridiculed for doing it!

Oh, well if that's the question there answer is simple.

This particular poster has worn out his welcome with us. Rightly or wrongly we find his posts ... uh ... difficult. I can talk to the same points without the ridiucle. Sure, the feminists tend to disagree with me but I don't get ridiculed.

If some people can discuss this and others cannot then it tells you where the problem lies.

PS: I agree on the issue of "who gets to decide about abort/keep". I gotta admit though I cringe at the idea of forcing a woman to term if the guy agrees to care for the child. I dislike the way the rights are split but I also dislike the alternatives.

edited to add:
Lucy's argument above is a fantastic example of the stuff Nick tries to address. That is so incredibly biased that it beggars my imagination. Discrimination is like that though. Even sensible people get caught in the trap because it's systemic.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 8/13/2013 8:10:10 AM >

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officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to BitYakin)

Post #: 132

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 8:40:14 AM

Lucylastic

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Status: offline

biased? bloody straight I am... As many women have been told, if you dont want kids, shut your legs, stop having sex, take responsibility for your own birth control.....mostly by dumbarse misogynists who havent got a clue and think that only sluts get pregnant accidentally... MEN should take responsibility for their own part in the act, if you dont wanna chance a pregnancy, twice the protection is good condom every time you have sex or vasectomy... Its precisely THE Over the top advise men give women who get pregnant accidentally.
However, unlike most people, I got pregnant AFTER I had my tubes tied. I didnt have to make the decision of keeping it, or aborting it it became lodged in my tubes and was ectopic...hubby was already father to 7 he didnt want anymore, but didnt get a vasectomy. I ended up being in hospital for 10 days in intensive care.
BTW As far as Nick is concerned, I am only too familiar with DV in men.... and had offered all kinds of information and help to him, so DONT try to make out Im some kind of ubercunt feminazi who wants to castrate men who think they have the same right as a woman to decide what she does with her body.

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(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 133

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 8:52:38 AM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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I'd say you just proved my point.

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 134

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 8:57:46 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

what part of "biased? bloody straight I am..." didnt you understand?

Edited to add, that I am only biased regarding the subject of pregnancy and ability of a woman being able to make her OWN decision about her body and reproduction.

Can we get back to the topic of domestic violence, actually any physical violence against men??

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 8/13/2013 9:11:44 AM >

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Post #: 135

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 11:38:57 AM

Zonie63

Posts: 2826
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From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
This particular poster has worn out his welcome with us. Rightly or wrongly we find his posts ... uh ... difficult. I can talk to the same points without the ridiucle. Sure, the feminists tend to disagree with me but I don't get ridiculed.

I've never really had a huge problem with Nick, although he reminds me of someone I saw on one of the Star Trek boards I used to frequent. He kept complaining that nobody wanted to be his friend, that he was being assimilated by the Borg. He would often come up with some rather weird and disturbing stuff, thinking that every conspiracy theory was directed not at society in general, but at him personally.

People were trying to advise him to get professional help, to go out and do something. But the guy didn't really want to listen or even lift a finger to help himself and deal with his issues. There were people who offered all kinds of sincere and helpful advice, but all he did was keep coming back with the same stuff.

There are other men who take positions similar to Nick's, and there are even Men's Organizations which advocate for Men's Rights. I don't think it's really so much the issue itself anymore. I think Nick got into some early arguments with a few posters here, and ever since he's been coming back to try to prove that he was right and those who argued with him were wrong. It's almost become a personal issue on this one particular topic. Not that there's anything wrong with this topic, but why not try expanding it and developing it beyond this level?

What is it about gender politics in general that seems to spark such strong opinions from either side? That might be an interesting topic by itself. To me, at least in my real world experience, I've seen men and women able to discuss and work out their differences like rational, reasonable adults on a fair and equitable level. But there are some men and some women who seem to take on a more militant political attitude and wonder why others aren't as militant as they are.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 136

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 2:51:56 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

He would often come up with some rather weird and disturbing stuff, thinking that every conspiracy theory was directed not at society in general, but at him personally.

Isn't that the whole point of conspiracy theories? Nothing that goes wrong in your life is your fault or happenstance, it's happening because the Conspiracy is picking on you.

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Post #: 137

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 4:32:39 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Isn't that the whole point of conspiracy theories? Nothing that goes wrong in your life is your fault or happenstance, it's happening because the Conspiracy is picking on you.

I thought it was all due to living up north

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 138

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 7:12:17 PM

BitYakin

Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ONE SINGLE person said they were willing to talk to him about an issue, and handfull of post admited there was an issue and kinda sorta agreed he might have a point on a couple issues.. but then it comes back around to the fact that he wasn't asking about any of the ISSUES, he was asking WHY if an issue gets brought up, the person who brings it up gets ridiculed for doing it!

I have talked, in depth, with him on this issue. It always boils down to how people are not willing to admit that women are the reason men are so badly abused. I cant, and wont, agree with that stance. So he gets angrier.

quote:

women have the right to terminate a mans child, men DO NOT have the right to terminate a woman's child!

..........

A woman can just DECIDE, to end some mans childs life, and the mans has ZERO POWER or control over it! on the other hand if a man wanted a child be terminated, he'd he told to GET OVER IT AND PAY UP!

Let me make this supposition to you. See if we cant get past this issue.

Why are there paternity tests, but no maternity tests? The answer is simple. Motherhood is never in doubt during pregnancy. Fatherhood always is. Possession is 9/10ths of the law... the woman has possession, her rights are never in dispute....

Now, what if that child isnt the "father's"? Should you be allowed to terminate my pregnancy, though we have never met? Like it or not, that is the issue.

quote:

assuming the sex is consentual BOTH PARTIES know the risk, but ONLY ONE party is given the right to CHANGE thier mind AFTER THE FACT!

Exactly, the one whose rights are not in dispute.

actually that a BOGUS argument, as its based on the ASSUMTION the man is not the father of the child

sorry but with the EXCEPTION of THIS ISSUE, that ASSUMTION would be toosed out of court moment it was brought up!

"Exactly, the one whose rights are not in dispute"

sooo you just plainly admitted, the man RIGHTS are IGNORED!
let me ask this question, suppose I go to the abortion clinic and have the fetus thats removed tested and ther is NO DOUBT its was MY CHILD, then what? do I get to ask for MURDER CHARGES TO BE BROUGHT UP? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

absolute FACT, women are given a LEGAL RIGHT than men are DENIED!
you can SPEW the REASONS why its done all you want, but the SIMPLE FACT is WOMEN are given this RIGHT while men are DENIED IT!

and the fact is, this is derailing the TOPIC whish isn't what rights women have tha tmen do not have, the question I beleive was/is WHY to people feel the correct response to ANY attemt to debate such topics is to RIDICULE the person who brings it up...

which BTW I beleive was YOUR RESONSE TO ME!

This is what I agreed with

when I mentioned this in another thread, I was pretty much told I was STUPID for even mentioning it! but it IS an undeniable FACT!

somehow I don't think the part you AGREED with what that its an UNDENIABLE FACT, but that I was STUPID for bringing it up!

you just PROVED his point!

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 139

RE: A huge hypocrisy factor within gender argument - 8/13/2013 7:20:09 PM

BitYakin

Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
but then it comes back around to the fact that he wasn't asking about any of the ISSUES, he was asking WHY if an issue gets brought up, the person who brings it up gets ridiculed for doing it!

Oh, well if that's the question there answer is simple.

This particular poster has worn out his welcome with us. Rightly or wrongly we find his posts ... uh ... difficult. I can talk to the same points without the ridiucle. Sure, the feminists tend to disagree with me but I don't get ridiculed.

If some people can discuss this and others cannot then it tells you where the problem lies.

PS: I agree on the issue of "who gets to decide about abort/keep". I gotta admit though I cringe at the idea of forcing a woman to term if the guy agrees to care for the child. I dislike the way the rights are split but I also dislike the alternatives.

edited to add:
Lucy's argument above is a fantastic example of the stuff Nick tries to address. That is so incredibly biased that it beggars my imagination. Discrimination is like that though. Even sensible people get caught in the trap because it's systemic.

well I guess you are part of the IN CROWD then cause when I brought this issue up in another thread I was RIDUCULED for it, and lucy pretty much called me STUPID for bringing it up just now

This is what I agreed with

when I mentioned this in another thread, I was pretty much told I was STUPID for even mentioning it! but it IS an undeniable FACT!

or are you saying the part of it she AGREED WITH was the part where I said it was an undeniable fact? or was she saying she agreed that I should be called STUPID for bringing it up?
I brought this up ONCE BEFORE, and pretty much had my ASS HANDED TO ME by ALMOST EVERYONE men and women alike, and have never mentioend it again TILL NOW

have I WORN OUT MY WELCOME AS WELL?

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 8/13/2013 7:22:20 PM >

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 140

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