farglebargle
Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:
ORIGINAL: DomKen
The rank and file forced birther may not know it is untrue but their leadership definitely knows its not true. They are 100% absolutely liars and they are the cause of much strife in this nation and we all know most of those leaders are in it for the power not for any moral conviction.
Your offensive name-calling and intellectually dishonest generalizations do not change the fact that there exists reasonable support for believing that a 20-week old fetus experiences pain.
Brusseau, 2008, p.17, para.2-3, “Clinical evidence for conscious perception mediated by such a subcortical system comes from infants and children with hydranencephaly... Despite the total or near-total absence of cerebral cortex, these children clearly demonstrate elements of consciousness... It is important to note that these are not hydrocephalic children who possess a thin rim of intact, functional cortex, but rather children with little or no cortex at all…what little cortex may remain is generally nonfunctional and without normal white matter connectivity.
Merker, 2007, p.79, col.1, para.4, “My impression from this first-hand exposure to children with hydranencephaly confirms the account given by Shewmon and colleagues. These children are not only awake and often alert, but show responsiveness to their surroundings in the form of emotions or orienting reactions to environmental events… They express pleasure by smiling and laughter, and aversion by “fussing,” arching of the back and crying (in many gradations), their faces being animated by these emotional states.”
Brusseau, 2006, p.191, col.1, para.1, “Indeed, there is evidence that hydranencephanic children responds to painful and pleasurable stimuli in a coordinated manner similar to other children.”
Beshkar, 2008, p.554, col.1, para.1, “Shewmon et al. (1999) reported the cases of four children aged 5-17, with hydranencephaly involving complete or nearly complete absence of cerebral cortex. The authors observed that these children possessed a variety of cognitive capacities that were indicative of ordinary consciousness, including…appropriate affective responses.” p.555, col.2, para.3, “Whether or not children born with hydranencephaly have consciousness is still controversial. However, the body of evidence in favor of the presence of consciousness in these patients seems to be more convincing than evidence and arguments against consciousness in such children.”
Source
K.
What does any of this have to do with the assertion that -- without the required structures at that phase of development -- it is literally impossible for the fetus to EXPERIENCE PAIN.
These references aren't talking about fetuses, and I do not believe extrapolating from DEVELOPED, VIABLE ACTUALLY BORN PEOPLE to DEVELOPING FETUSES isn't warranted.
In other words, a 17 year old isn't a fetus. Is it intellectually honest to assert that they are similar enough for the results to be relevant? I don't think so.
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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.
ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים
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End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." - 
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