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RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 9:08:17 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

On the other hand, I do find it hard to fathom that anyone in this day and age can get along without some form of ID. When I was a teenager, I was counting the days before I was old enough to get a driver's license. A few years later, I cherished my ID as I needed it to get into bars and buy cigarettes. (I was out with some buddies going to a bar once, and one of the guys in our group forgot his ID. Everyone was pissed at him because we had to go back and get it.)


Many of us are speaking mainly about people who are our parents generation or even older.

http://www.phillytrib.com/newsarticles/item/3784-seniors-hit-hard-by-voter-id-law.html

You might want to read that for a better understanding of what many people are talking about.


look my grandfather was born in 1902, he had ALL the same ID's I have now, BTW he is dead now ,aking it a moot point

the real point is, you are talking about a like .001% of people that will be INCONVIENIENCED by this...
this is the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT most use as to WHY its not needed

are there a FEW 99 yr old hermits out there that decided at some point they didn't need to be part of society, sure, but in the REAL WORLD these people are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN!

so tell me, a decade ago, when the 30ish other states encated these laws, where was the OUTRAGE. since surely 10 years ago there were even MORE of these inconvienienced people still alive!

thats right NO ONE CARED, ad now its just GRANDSTANDING but DEMS, PURE AN SIMPLE!

ya know what, I bet when cars became the normal mode of tranportation SOME PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE IT, GET OVER IT! the world progress's either get on board or don't but STOP WHINING ABOUT IT!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 9:11:18 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I don't give a fuck if one person is inconvienienced by it. The constitution says, no poll taxes. Fuckin Period.

So, hold up the whole of the USA over one person not having ID, unless you private citizens pay for it.

Voter ID issues are not a problem. There are way more frauds perpetrated by party machinery. Fix it first, then we will worry about the 2 people in the united states that voted 6 times each.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 9:13:12 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I'd rather err on the side of requiring ID, adding in exemptions for certain people. I'd also like to see a program in each locality that would help those without ID to get one. And, that program be free for the participants. And, a State ID be free for those who can't afford it.


I agree with this. I think this would solve most of the concerns being raised, since ID cards do cost money. So, if states are required to issue free identification cards to citizens who request them, then that may do the trick. Passports and passport cards should also be issued free upon request (whether people can afford it or not).


The state issued id is free for some people in NC (I think) but that is not the issue, for some people if the closest place for getting the id is several hundreds of miles away, that is the issue cuz obviously they don't drive or have a vehicle so no way to get there.. and in addition to that, don't they need a birth certificate to get the id?

I lost my ID once and that was hell.. and I don't carry all my ID with me like some people do.. One time I found a guys wallet and it was 2 inches thick with all the cards & ID he had collected over his entire life.. how do you even start to replace all that? Whether you lose your ID or don't have any, its like going thru hell to get, imo.. just sayin'

probably most people have lost a wallet or purse in thier life, they all replace thier ID's, yes yes its a pain in the ass, but they DO IT and MOVE ON!
you are taling about a TINY FRACTION HERE!

BY your logic, since it was a pain the ass, those peope that lost thier wallets should have just said YA KNOWWW it a pain so I am not going to replace all my ID's and that should be JUST FINE

THEY did it, you did it, I have done it, probably almost EVERYONE has had to do it!

SOOO WHAT!

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 9:18:36 AM   
BitYakin


Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin



ALSO if you were really DETERMINED, you could just go from state to state, get a DL, the wait a week or so and go back and tell them you LOST THE CARD and get a replacement DL, and head to the NEXT STATE

this doesn't even take alot of thought!

And when they did a computer search of your SSN (which you need to apply for a DL), I would show multiple licenses (or attempts to obtain same) and you would end up with a bemused state trooper standing behind you fingering his handcuffs.

Any time a person applies for a DL, the DMV does a multi state search to find out whether you have a DL in another state and whether it is suspended to has any restrictions on it.
This has been true at least since '96 which is the last time I made an interstate move.

If things worked the way you say, I could lose my license to a DUI and all I'd have to do is move 15 miles to NC or 20 to VA and claim residency to get a brand new license.

It doesn't work that way.

It doesn't take a lot of thought to figure that out.



I have explained this, but you don't LIKE the answer so it means it NOT A VALID ANSWER

the QUESTION, was about EXPIRED DL's all you have to do is get a replacement DL, turn one in and keep the second card, BINGO an EXPIRED DL to use as ID!

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 9:24:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		aND THEN WHAT? iS THERE SOME EXPIRATION DATE ON A VOTER ID? WHAT IF YOU MOVE? HOW is it more whatever the fuck you guys cant quite explain that makes it such a great deal that it must be the way Americans operate? WHAT WILL YOU ACCOMPLISH OTHER THAN A great big boondoggle and caterwauling by nutsuckers about how great they are, while burgeoning government and spending, and creating miles of red tape?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 9:50:10 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

No state that has implemented one of these new restrictive voter ID laws has made any allowance for disabled or elderly citizens who cannot be accommodated at a DL facility


I'm pretty sure that Georgia wrote their law in such a way as to guarantee individuals any assistance they needed, at no cost.
It was one of the big reasons it sailed through SCOTUS.

quote:

Why do they also reject college ID's?


Why do they reject Cracker Jack boxes? Seriously- it's hard to take that seriously.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 9:51:34 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

So they now have to register to vote in NC even if they arent residents?


You cannot legslly vote in any state except your state of residence. Period.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 9:56:46 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I would prefer to see a grandfathering in of those individuals.


I would support a modest proposal to do that... perhaps a state ombudsman of sorts whose job it would be to help such people and, perhaps, allow them to vote provisionally in the meantime.


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 9:59:31 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin



ALSO if you were really DETERMINED, you could just go from state to state, get a DL, the wait a week or so and go back and tell them you LOST THE CARD and get a replacement DL, and head to the NEXT STATE

this doesn't even take alot of thought!

And when they did a computer search of your SSN (which you need to apply for a DL), I would show multiple licenses (or attempts to obtain same) and you would end up with a bemused state trooper standing behind you fingering his handcuffs.

Any time a person applies for a DL, the DMV does a multi state search to find out whether you have a DL in another state and whether it is suspended to has any restrictions on it.
This has been true at least since '96 which is the last time I made an interstate move.

If things worked the way you say, I could lose my license to a DUI and all I'd have to do is move 15 miles to NC or 20 to VA and claim residency to get a brand new license.

It doesn't work that way.

It doesn't take a lot of thought to figure that out.



I have explained this, but you don't LIKE the answer so it means it NOT A VALID ANSWER

the QUESTION, was about EXPIRED DL's all you have to do is get a replacement DL, turn one in and keep the second card, BINGO an EXPIRED DL to use as ID!

You were explaining how one could obtain valid driver's licenses from multiple states.
I was explaining how you were wrong.

Read the words I write, not what you assume I meant.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 10:01:11 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

In fact, its a rare occurance.


That is an opinion.
In fact, prosecution of voter fraud is a rare occurence, but you can no more prove the crime itself is rare than you can prove there are no wild mountain lions in Georgia.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 10:03:23 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

what needs to be personally done to insulate ourselves from the fall.


The best advice I ever received concerning surviving an ambush was not to be there when it happened.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 10:08:39 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

In fact, its a rare occurance.


That is an opinion.
In fact, prosecution of voter fraud is a rare occurence, but you can no more prove the crime itself is rare than you can prove there are no wild mountain lions in Georgia.


Nor can the prosecution of voter fraud be proven to be a rare occurrence, compared to the number of cases of voter fraud.

It is a vacuous watery moonbeam of ideological slobberment.


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 10:35:24 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Nor can the prosecution of voter fraud be proven to be a rare occurrence, compared to the number of cases of voter fraud.


Okay. But, what's your point.
Prosecution remains rare; actual occurrence remains not "provably rare".

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 10:39:50 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Nor can the prosecution of voter fraud be proven to be a rare occurrence, compared to the number of cases of voter fraud.


Okay. But, what's your point.
Prosecution remains rare; actual occurrence remains not "provably rare".

If is not "provably rare" then by inference it is not quantifiable.

Therefore, it is not "provably common" as many pundits who wish to pass expensive laws and increase the size of government would have us believe.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 10:44:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Nor can the prosecution of voter fraud be proven to be a rare occurrence, compared to the number of cases of voter fraud.


Okay. But, what's your point.
Prosecution remains rare; actual occurrence remains not "provably rare".



No, my point is prosecution remains not provably rare as a ratio of actual occurrences, which are not provably numerous.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 11:11:46 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I'd rather err on the side of requiring ID, adding in exemptions for certain people. I'd also like to see a program in each locality that would help those without ID to get one. And, that program be free for the participants. And, a State ID be free for those who can't afford it.

I agree with this. I think this would solve most of the concerns being raised, since ID cards do cost money. So, if states are required to issue free identification cards to citizens who request them, then that may do the trick. Passports and passport cards should also be issued free upon request (whether people can afford it or not).

The state issued id is free for some people in NC (I think) but that is not the issue, for some people if the closest place for getting the id is several hundreds of miles away, that is the issue cuz obviously they don't drive or have a vehicle so no way to get there.. and in addition to that, don't they need a birth certificate to get the id?
I lost my ID once and that was hell.. and I don't carry all my ID with me like some people do.. One time I found a guys wallet and it was 2 inches thick with all the cards & ID he had collected over his entire life.. how do you even start to replace all that? Whether you lose your ID or don't have any, its like going thru hell to get, imo.. just sayin'


Hundreds of miles?!?!? There are 266 License offices in NC, where at it's widest, it's 150 miles and 560 miles across. You would only have to go "hundred's of miles" if you were out of state. But, if you're out of state on voting day, you'd likely have already sent in an absentee ballot.

Going Thru Hell for an ID:
    quote:

    Starting January 1, 2014, the Division of Motor Vehicles will begin issuing no fee ID Cards to be used for voting. Proof of age, identity, North Carolina residence, and verification of voter registration will be required.


Maybe in the more arid and less populated states one may have to drive "hundreds of miles" to get to a DMV, but it's not likely.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 11:13:30 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If is not "provably rare" then by inference it is not quantifiable.


Exactly.
Voter ID laws, at worst, err on the side of safety, err on the side of keeping the vote as untainted- and as publicly acceptable- as possible.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 11:14:48 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

which are not provably numerous.


And the intent of voter ID laws is to keep it that way.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 11:29:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Except that it aint broke, dont need fixing, dont appreciably exist, dont need bigger government, dont need more intrusion, dont need house of the living dead voter id offices and bureaucracy, and spending for sloths, and poll taxes are forbidden constitutionally. Repeal Obamacare.

Or fix the fuckin debt, fix the healthcare, fix the jobs, fuck the voter id.

When that rises to the level of a problem, fix it.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Republicans Limiting The Vote - 8/15/2013 11:40:27 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

If is not "provably rare" then by inference it is not quantifiable.


Exactly.
Voter ID laws, at worst, err on the side of safety, err on the side of keeping the vote as untainted- and as publicly acceptable- as possible.

Voter ID laws at best address a problem that hasn't been shown to truly exist.
They add another layer of inconvenience to law abiding citizens.
They waste our tax dollars.
They add to the bureaucracy and the size of government.

Isn't inconveniencing law abiding citizens because a few people MIGHT be doing wrong, wasting tax money and making the government bigger a job for Liberals?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 140
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