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Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 6:48:55 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		1400+ dead from a suspected chemical weapons attack in Syria. The depravity of the violence there has hit a new low. Even worse, no solution is on the horizon as various outside interests (which includes just about every player in the ME scene from AQ and Iran to Israel and the US ) manouvre for control. No 'good guys' to be seen anywhere. 100,000 dead and still counting. Syria has become the new Lebanon.

Obama warned that use of chemical weapons was a "red line" that would invite US direct US involvement. Yet there seems to be no appetite for direct involvement in the West. Assad is a butcher but the opposition is increasingly AQ-aligned.

Is there any hope for the long suffering Syrian people?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/world/middleeast/syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 8:00:45 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
1400+ dead from a suspected chemical weapons attack in Syria. The depravity of the violence there has hit a new low. Even worse, no solution is on the horizon as various outside interests (which includes just about every player in the ME scene from AQ and Iran to Israel and the US ) manouvre for control. No 'good guys' to be seen anywhere. 100,000 dead and still counting. Syria has become the new Lebanon.
Obama warned that use of chemical weapons was a "red line" that would invite US direct US involvement. Yet there seems to be no appetite for direct involvement in the West. Assad is a butcher but the opposition is increasingly AQ-aligned.
Is there any hope for the long suffering Syrian people?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/world/middleeast/syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


UN intervention?

This is a fucked up situation for any US politician. Support the people of Syria and the other side will accuse you of supporting AQ/terrorists. Support Assad, and the other side will accuse you of supporting a tyrannical despot.

Obama should have kept his mouth shut, regarding the "red line." Now, he'll have to act, or be exposed (further) as a paper tiger.

IMO, Assad needs ousted more than Qaddafi (or however it's spelled) did.


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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 9:29:10 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Support the people of Syria and the other side will accuse you of supporting AQ/terrorists. Support Assad, and the other side will accuse you of supporting a tyrannical despot.


Unquestionably.

So we do what everyone thinks is probably the right thing and get rid of Assad. Then what? We're left with another country full of factions who are happy to have us remove their obstacle so they can try taking over and continue hating us.

Here's an idea...do nothing, say nothing, avoid the issue, and let the rest of the world figure it out on their own for once. France seems all fired up to jump in. Let them handle it. I find myself utterly unconcerned if the Syrians burn themselves to the ground or figure out how to get rid of Assad. No matter what we do it will yield the US no appreciation from anyone.

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 9:58:49 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Support the people of Syria and the other side will accuse you of supporting AQ/terrorists. Support Assad, and the other side will accuse you of supporting a tyrannical despot.

Unquestionably.
So we do what everyone thinks is probably the right thing and get rid of Assad. Then what? We're left with another country full of factions who are happy to have us remove their obstacle so they can try taking over and continue hating us.
Here's an idea...do nothing, say nothing, avoid the issue, and let the rest of the world figure it out on their own for once. France seems all fired up to jump in. Let them handle it. I find myself utterly unconcerned if the Syrians burn themselves to the ground or figure out how to get rid of Assad. No matter what we do it will yield the US no appreciation from anyone.


Except the side we help. But, that will likely be short-lived anyway.

Lack of action leads to egg on Obama's face (which is why he shouldn't have drawn a line in the sand regarding chemical weapons). He'll be shown to be wishy-washy (don't support Iran's popular uprising against Achakmserpoiaadlkfasdinenjad; support the uprising against Qaddafi; don't support the uprising against Assad; be vocal in supporting Egyptians; etc.).

Like I said, this is a fucked up situation for US politicians.


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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 10:03:52 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Well, where is the hue and cry from the right for war? isnt this about the 7th or 8th excuse that w and co used to go into Iraq after all the others were found to be knowing lies?

Where are our patriotic americans, fucking us here at home on social security, jobs, healthcare, but the vanguard for american freedom in the gassed countries?

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 10:16:40 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Well, where is the hue and cry from the right for war? isnt this about the 7th or 8th excuse that w and co used to go into Iraq after all the others were found to be knowing lies?
Where are our patriotic americans, fucking us here at home on social security, jobs, healthcare, but the vanguard for american freedom in the gassed countries?


Don't forget that one of the reasons we went into Iraq was over the ties to AQ. Can't really make that claim against Assad, can we?


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What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 10:17:36 AM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		The French are doing a lot of sabre rattling, let them go in!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/22/france-warns-syria-response-chemical

We have enough sand in our boots as is!

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 10:46:05 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Well, where is the hue and cry from the right for war? isnt this about the 7th or 8th excuse that w and co used to go into Iraq after all the others were found to be knowing lies?
Where are our patriotic americans, fucking us here at home on social security, jobs, healthcare, but the vanguard for american freedom in the gassed countries?


Don't forget that one of the reasons we went into Iraq was over the ties to AQ. Can't really make that claim against Assad, can we?



Oh, no we didn't, they had no ties, that was one of the seven or eight tries at finding a reason that didnt pan out, that was after 9/11, yellow cake, nuke weapons it was at least 4th or 5th on the list of created justifications.


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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 10:54:14 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Well, where is the hue and cry from the right for war? isnt this about the 7th or 8th excuse that w and co used to go into Iraq after all the others were found to be knowing lies?
Where are our patriotic americans, fucking us here at home on social security, jobs, healthcare, but the vanguard for american freedom in the gassed countries?

Don't forget that one of the reasons we went into Iraq was over the ties to AQ. Can't really make that claim against Assad, can we?

Oh, no we didn't, they had no ties, that was one of the seven or eight tries at finding a reason that didnt pan out, that was after 9/11, yellow cake, nuke weapons it was at least 4th or 5th on the list of created justifications.


No, we did use it as a reason. I didn't say we found it to be true, just that it was used as justification. Hussein hadn't gassed his peeps for how many years before we went in? 10-20 years?




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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 11:02:22 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I believe it was 12. It was so many years ago, he gassed Kurds (that should have been a clue for W there that it was gonna be a all hail the conquering hero lets thow some shoes at that murderous bitch sorta invasion.

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 11:06:20 AM   
SilverMark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I believe it was 12. It was so many years ago, he gassed Kurds (that should have been a clue for W there that it was gonna be a all hail the conquering hero lets thow some shoes at that murderous bitch sorta invasion.


He also gassed Iranians, but that was ok, he was doing our bidding....must be a sliding scale in there somewhere?

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
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It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 11:13:50 AM   
DesideriScuri


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I believe it was 12. It was so many years ago, he gassed Kurds (that should have been a clue for W there that it was gonna be a all hail the conquering hero lets thow some shoes at that murderous bitch sorta invasion.

He also gassed Iranians, but that was ok, he was doing our bidding....must be a sliding scale in there somewhere?


One of the given reasons for going into Iraq to depose Hussein was that he gassed his own citizens. IMO, that's worse than gassing an enemy combatant. I think he gassed his own partly to experiment, but that subject selection was politically done.

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What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 11:20:12 AM   
RottenJohnny


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Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
No, we did use it as a reason. I didn't say we found it to be true, just that it was used as justification. Hussein hadn't gassed his peeps for how many years before we went in? 10-20 years?

The Halabja gas attack was in 1988.

_____________________________

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"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 11:24:50 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

Assad is a butcher


absolutely positive right?

quote:

The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. ~Reichsmarschall Hermann Wilhelm Göring


of course todays tactics are to hire mercenaries like black water to do the dirty but it all works out in the wash.

you are sure?

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 11:27:39 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
No, we did use it as a reason. I didn't say we found it to be true, just that it was used as justification. Hussein hadn't gassed his peeps for how many years before we went in? 10-20 years?

The Halabja gas attack was in 1988.


And, we went in in 2002, 14 years later. Well within my 10-20 year spread. I did a quick googling and most of the links just mentioned Hussein doing these things "during the '80's." The exact date wasn't necessary as I know we aren't going to wait over a decade to go into Syria, if we are going to go into Syria for Assad's use of chemical weapons...


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 11:30:42 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
No, we did use it as a reason. I didn't say we found it to be true, just that it was used as justification. Hussein hadn't gassed his peeps for how many years before we went in? 10-20 years?

The Halabja gas attack was in 1988.


And, we went in in 2002, 14 years later. Well within my 10-20 year spread. I did a quick googling and most of the links just mentioned Hussein doing these things "during the '80's." The exact date wasn't necessary as I know we aren't going to wait over a decade to go into Syria, if we are going to go into Syria for Assad's use of chemical weapons...





The Devil in the Details: The CIA and Saddam Hussein

"The coup that brought the Ba'ath Party to power in 1963 was celebrated by the United States.

The CIA had a hand in it. They had funded the Ba'ath Party - of which Saddam Hussein was a young member - when it was in opposition.




yeh its such a small world now days


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 11:37:51 AM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Well, where is the hue and cry from the right for war? isnt this about the 7th or 8th excuse that w and co used to go into Iraq after all the others were found to be knowing lies?
Where are our patriotic americans, fucking us here at home on social security, jobs, healthcare, but the vanguard for american freedom in the gassed countries?


Don't forget that one of the reasons we went into Iraq was over the ties to AQ. Can't really make that claim against Assad, can we?



Oh, no we didn't, they had no ties, that was one of the seven or eight tries at finding a reason that didnt pan out, that was after 9/11, yellow cake, nuke weapons it was at least 4th or 5th on the list of created justifications.



Which one of the "tries" was Hillary Clinton and John Kerry in on? I clearly remember both of them giving speeches why we had to go in! People with selective "memories" seem to forget about them being hot to go in!

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 11:47:17 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		They were hot to go in, based on falsified intelligence by W.

Why didn't Issa investigate that.

People with no memory are stupid, I think, unless it is alzheimers like St. Wrinklemeat, then they are ignorant.

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 12:51:37 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
No, we did use it as a reason. I didn't say we found it to be true, just that it was used as justification. Hussein hadn't gassed his peeps for how many years before we went in? 10-20 years?

The Halabja gas attack was in 1988.


And, we went in in 2002, 14 years later. Well within my 10-20 year spread. I did a quick googling and most of the links just mentioned Hussein doing these things "during the '80's." The exact date wasn't necessary as I know we aren't going to wait over a decade to go into Syria, if we are going to go into Syria for Assad's use of chemical weapons...


Relax. I was only throwing in an FYI.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria - 8/22/2013 1:00:01 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

The coup that brought the Ba'ath Party to power in 1963 was celebrated by the United States.

So do you view our getting rid of Saddam as cleaning up our own mess?

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 20
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