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RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 12:05:22 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Nodding.....the old leatherman community had just as much backstabbing, deceit, and general bad manners  as our current one.

Ron Rhinella details this in some of his writings on the subject-he was involved personally in it's hey day. All that they were was a bunch of gay swingers having kinky sex-with some military forms of address tossed in. So I just about fall over laughing when I hear them reffered to as "the golden age of respect in bdsm".

Here's another alien concept, addressed to no one in particular.

You want respect?
Be respectful,follow your dreams in public.
Be pleasant, be a role model for fun and stability.

The dream won't happen anyway else-work it.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 12:08:22 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		agirl,

Thanks for the insightful reading of my post.  I think however, that one mans "turning a blind eye" is another man's respect.  I am quite respectful of people who ask the dumbest question, one that has been posted 5,000 if they ask it from a place of clarity or at least are trying to.

When someone asks a question and does so in a way that the real problems leaps off the page and is 180 out from what they are saying, I will point that out.

If someone is at a club and is doing things that I find wrong, I will either address it or find a way to create a discussion that makes my point for me.  I give great deference at clubs to butch's and serious leatherman because I believe they deserve it.  I give much less to your average dominant because I don't think they would even recognize it and certainly don't give it.  I try and notch my "protocol" a few levels above most at a vanilla S&M party, I try and keep up at a serious gay leather event.




(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 12:13:58 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		hizgeorgiapeach,

Steps up and after catching the eye of nodding to her owner, sweeps his hat off and bows.

Woman, that was a rather stunning bit of clear and concise writing, I am impressed.  There are a tiny handful on here that I read greedily, you are now on that list.

Thank you!

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 12:21:17 PM   
Kree


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtimisBlack

I agree with a lot of what was said on this thread. People need to earn your respect. Respect if different from common courtesy and politeness.
If I disagree with someone or find somebody’s manner offensive, I try not to stoop to name calling, but that is not out of respect for them- it's out of respect for myself. I won't just not respond however, especially if it's a discussion other people are party to like a forum. I definitely wouldn't want someone who didn't know any better to think that 1 person and all those who agree with them are the only opinion out there, and if the person's manner is rude, not only do I want them to know about it so (hopefully) they can correct it, I also want others to know that kind of behavior is neither acceptable or appreciated.
 


I think this is very well stated.  People often confuse courtesy and polite with respect.  I will be courteous and polite with a total lamer, but that does not imply respect.  Respect has a price, it needs to be demonstrated that someone is worth of that respect, before the price is paid.  The idea that anyone claiming to be a dom, lord, master, liege, etc etc etc deserves respect because they have chosen a title means nothing.  A dear friend of mine once described her first impressions from people online.  Her first impression of self-appointed titles was "if they gotta say it in a screen name... they aint it."  She proved right in many many instances. 

Another point in this thread that I feel isnt being explored is the courtesy and politeness offered to submissives.  Perhaps it is because I have lived in the South my whole life, but I will be polite and courteous to submissives because it is just a proper thing to do in my opinion.  Further, when I know them and/or have watched their mannerisms,  I will offer them the respect that I feel submission deserves. Being courteous and polite has limits, however.  I see people on CM that do not deserve any of the above.  When someone has consistently changed their story about their experience and life, they dont deserve a voice, much less respect.  When they claim vast experience then ask questions that make no sense, they confess their lack of knowledge that they have claimed and deserve nothing.

One person posted that he felt that submissives should show respect to everyone because potential Masters are watching.  I do not agree with that.  I think that being courteous is enough until someone has earned the respect.  Others have stated that they do not like SAMs, but I do not see someone being a SAM just because they have told some asshole that deserves contempt, instead of respect, to shove it.  I would admire the person for refusing to be bullied by an idiot.  I would not admire someone who felt compelled to call idiots "SIR" or "MAAM" just because they claim to be dominant. 

Perhaps the word respect needs to stand on a higher level than the words polite and courteous.


_____________________________

Author of "Nytewhispers"

Power whispers, it has no reason to yell

(in reply to ArtimisBlack)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 12:22:12 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		From a S.A.D.
I was raised to have manners and be courteous, some call it respect. But to me respect is deeper based upon knowing the person, watching them, seeing how they react in adverse situations, how they treat others.
When I meet someone either online or face to face I do not give respect until they earn it from me. However I believe that everyone deserves to be treated with manners and in a courteous fashion until they piss my ass right off. That is when they get to meet the N.B.D. and all courtesy is done. Fortunately that rarely happens cuz I much prefer to be the goofy S.A.D.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 12:32:33 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		Basic respect is given to A/all until they lose it with some stupid, idiotic behavior.  That said, there are levels of respect that are earned.  I respect a Dom that gave a demo at a party for His obvious knowledge of His subject.  I also give a little more respect to the same Dom for the esteem He i held in by other club members.  He has also treated me with respect while chatting with me.  We have not played, not likely to play or perhaps someday.  But to say i give Him the same respect i give my favorite Dom of all no He has not quite earned that level yet and may never.  My favorite Dom is unlikely to do anything to lose my respect since i have observed Him in play with others, seen Him interact with others outside bdsm in a manner i find very remarkable and when all is said He floats my boat as a person.  Few others have this high of respect from me and i doubt that many ever will have because this level is reserved for the creme of the crop (LOL).  But remember everyone has there level of respect from me although perhaps one or two are in the lowest level that of no i will not say pond slime but close enough.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 12:46:57 PM   
feistykitten


Posts: 49
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline 		please forgive me if i dont understand how you see my wanting to understand something as "railing against" and how am i not being "accepting"? to not accept something is to say that its wrong and i cant say something is wrong if i dont fully understand the reasonings behind it..............the difference here is that i can accept anything.....tho i dont have to agree with it.  i am also sorry that some of you believe that i am on drugs or living in a fantasy land when i ask a question about something that started out as comments about other people going out of their way to be disrespectful to others that have not instigated the confrontation.  i know that what i have asked about does exist i have seen it......and yes in a whole community.  i also want to take the time to say thank you to those that have understood what i was asking and have agreed with me.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 12:59:36 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		So, we are jerks for saying others are jerks but you  are "old school" cause you think we are jerks for saying others are jerks?

I didn't think you were on drugs before but even I can be wrong.

< Message edited by CrappyDom -- 6/30/2006 1:06:11 PM >

(in reply to feistykitten)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 1:18:34 PM   
feistykitten


Posts: 49
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline 		those were not my words nor even my thoughts Sir.  But that is your interpretation of them, i cant change that nor will i try.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 1:41:25 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:



but the original question doesnt have anything to do with or about the forums



I stand corrected.. let me rephrase my answer.

quote:

and if you dont like or agree with someones opinions and views then why respond to them why not just move on and let bygones be bygones whether you believe they are a real Dom/Domme or not."


Such would make for a boring life. Without diversity, how does one grow? What is the point of having a conversation in which the only thing ever said is "I agree with you!"

Imagine, if you will, how such a conversation would go.

"Do you find that diversity is good or bad? I think it's good. You can grow from it by getting the viewpoint of others whom are willing to share experiences."

::second party disagrees for valid reasons, but because they disagree, they don't respond .. they just walk away instead of engage in a conversation::

Now, you said the original question had nothing to do with the forums but you probably wouldn't notice it as much in a forum because plenty of others will respond. In a toes to toes situation such would be fairly rude and inconsiderate. Is that what you are advocating? You used the word 'community' so I assumed you meant either forums (or the like) or lifestyle situations/events etc. If it's something else, such as your personal experiences with email, that's an individual thing and hardly reflects the 'community' as a whole.

Doesn't seem like communication would be very high on the list of someone who refuses to engage in conversations which have the potential for conflict.

One might believe that such a character is so set in their own thinking, that they simply don't wish to hear alternate points of view. So, is being open to such potential conflict more important than refusing to take off the rose colored glasses for fear of being seen as disrespectful regardless of who might be the one judging such a person? Or is it more important to have 'token respect' of just anyone, walk away if there is potential for conflict and fail to learn from a diverse group?

Celeste

PS: OK, after reading your journals, I am going to make an assumption here that this is just another rant about rude emails. ::sighs::

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to feistykitten)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 2:24:52 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

With all these respect issues that come up, I finally decided to look the word up in the dictionary. Now before I looked it up I would have said I respected everyone. After I look it up, I had to think about it....

It said Respect : to hold someone in esteem or with high regard.

ok..so I thought about that....I cant just hold everyone with esteem and high regard, heck how would I know if they were deserving of that? But then I thought, well I just generally hold everyone in high regard as a human being, or even as for the spirit they have inside them...so thats sits ok with me...back to respecting everyone for me~ *grin*

I guess though, there are degrees of respect hey


Call me a sucker, I agree with you, people tend to get some level of respect for me until they step on my toes, or even more important, the toes of those I most highly value. It is just the way I am, I respect someone until they show me I can't. It is very difficult for me to disrepect others because I esteem and value the fact we are mostly just people doing the best we can.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 7:48:55 PM   
aleshaDreams


Posts: 184
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		Pardon my indulgence in thought here, and not an intended hyjak or your post.  But I sit here reflecting on the word and actions behind the word respect, and think of day to day interactions amoung ppl ........

and at the beginning, throughout and at the end of the day..........

I respect your freedom to make choices,
I respect your freedom of expression,
I respect your beliefs,
I respect how you wish to conduct your life,
and I respect all of these and all other things you make choice to do regardless of how I feel they should or should not be done.  After all it is your life and it is your choice.  Is this not earning respect without any actual act of earned respect?  Hummm ponders the possibility that the term 'respect' is being conscrued as a form and/or method of not having to acknowledge something or someone not fully understood by another.



(in reply to feistykitten)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 8:03:27 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		OK ... I have read almost everyones post .... and I think I will add my OPINION
 
 when a slave or sub serves me I make it known I want her to address a Dom/me as Sir or Ma'am this is why .. her respect the she gives another Dom/me is a direct reflection on me ... its my firm belief everyone deserves to be treated with some form of common respect till they lose that right .. a rude Dom/me will fast lose the respect they think they deserve . just like a sub/slave can lose respect and not get hers either. in the "old school" a Dom/me was given basic respect of a Sir or Ma'am .. it was a common respect given
 
I personally think that the internet has played a large part in subs and slaves who do not extend common respect or courtestys ... maybe it's bad advice handed off by another sub or slave .. maybe it's the plague of the wanker Dom/mes who come to these sites just toattempt to find some "easy sex"
 
I think Tolerable Cruelty and Iron Bear hit on some very good points as did Mr Petee,
 
Me personally .. I try to give everyone there just due . till they prove they don't deserve it .... I try not to harp on it and just move on to talk with those that still are due common reespect ... I know quite a few from both the Dom/me and the sub/slaves that I hold greeat respect for ... and many of them have posted in here ..... and I hope I maintain some just due respect from others in here as well
 
 the OP was asking a valid question . one that should be given a deep down thought and response and I hope I did just that.
 

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 8:24:51 PM   
Invictus754


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feistykitten

....."what happened to the time where even token respect was afforded Doms/Dommes known or not...


I think people are confusing respect with good manners.  "Sir" & "Ma'am" aren't signs of respect, they are common courtesies.   Especially in this lifestyle, one would think every submissive or slave would automatically be courteous to people they met for the first time.  The submissives and slaves that say they don't have to show respect for people who haven't earned it only show that they need training in manners.  I suppose that slaves and subs shouldn't have to say "Please" and "Thank you" unless they are forced?
 
All of the subs who think strangers need to earn your courtesy, please wipe your nose, get back on your skateboard and go back home to your nintendo.  That's the fantasy world you need to be in.

_____________________________

You never know your limits, until you push them
If slavery is a gift, the Africans were pretty fucking generous in the 1700 and 1800s, weren't they?

(in reply to feistykitten)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 8:45:25 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

quote:

ORIGINAL: feistykitten

....."what happened to the time where even token respect was afforded Doms/Dommes known or not...


I think people are confusing respect with good manners.  "Sir" & "Ma'am" aren't signs of respect, they are common courtesies.   Especially in this lifestyle, one would think every submissive or slave would automatically be courteous to people they met for the first time.  The submissives and slaves that say they don't have to show respect for people who haven't earned it only show that they need training in manners.  I suppose that slaves and subs shouldn't have to say "Please" and "Thank you" unless they are forced?
 
All of the subs who think strangers need to earn your courtesy, please wipe your nose, get back on your skateboard and go back home to your nintendo.  That's the fantasy world you need to be in.


Grins, and help mario save the mushroom queen from the evil koopa!

(in reply to Invictus754)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 8:50:23 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Respect is not a right, it is earned through time and moral judgement.

I sense that many are confusing respect with politeness, or civility. Of course, one would be 'civil' or 'polite' on a priori basis. Respect is not a due to anybody, Dom/me or not.

Especially after the Gory experiences I've just had rofl on another forum!

I am still laughing, so my self-respect is intact: thus I am able to respect those that respect me, and vice-versa. Of course.

Blah, blah, blah, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 8:55:03 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Where have all the flowers gone?  Long time passing............ 

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 8:56:49 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		When will they ever learn? When will they everrrr learn..........

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 8:59:30 PM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline 		Respect is different from common courtesy and good manners. For me, respect is earned by each individual I give or afford it to. Common courtesy/good manners I try to always show and give as a general rule. There are a few who've shown beyond a doubt that they do not deserve even that much from me and those I avoid if at all possible out of courtesy and respect to others around.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 9:01:03 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Shunning is my reward for those who truly lose my respect-being ignored makes for SO much less drama!

(in reply to SweetSarijane)
Profile   Post #: 80
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