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where has all the respect gone? - 6/29/2006 11:33:57 PM

feistykitten

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline

i recently recieved an email from a man that i am coming to admire from afar ....he took the time to read my journal entries then asked me to post a particular question i had in it here in the forums.....so here it goes:

i guess my question here tonight is simply.....

....."what happened to the time where even token respect was afforded Doms/Dommes known or not, and what happened to this community as a whole when one sits there in judgement of another because their views do not conform with those of others?? wasnt this life at one time based on mutual respect for such diversity? and if you dont like or agree with someones opinions and views then why respond to them why not just move on and let bygones be bygones whether you believe they are a real Dom/Domme or not."

< Message edited by feistykitten -- 6/29/2006 11:41:11 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/29/2006 11:36:47 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feistykitten

i recently recieved an email from a man that i am coming to admire from afar ....he took the time to read my journal entries then asked me to post a particular question i had in it here in the forums.....so here it goes:

i guess my question here tonight is simply.....

"what happened to the time where even token respect was afforded Doms/Dommes known or not"...................

It has been swallowed whole, like a snake does a lizard.....

By those who see Domination as an end to kinky sex-with no realization of what it means to care about the bigger picture.

And I most devoutly wish it were not so.

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 2

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/29/2006 11:41:14 PM

OedipusRexIt

Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline

This is a common lament, and always rendered ineffectual by the idea that Dom/Dommes are the only ones worty of respect.

Unless in a D/S relationship, I feel no one deserves any sort of automatic respect, other than the same respect and courtesy all deserve.

If the question is: why aren't people more respectful in general, then the answer is easy:

"Kids today....!"

_____________________________

"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die..."

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 3

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/29/2006 11:41:30 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

I'd guess it was about the same time some proclaiming dom status started acting like assholes for no reason. One sorta leads to the other.

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 4

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/29/2006 11:53:52 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

....."what happened to the time where even token respect was afforded Doms/Dommes known or not ...............

There are some who believe that respect should be given until an individual proves they are undeserving of such, then there are those, like myself, who do not give respect to just anyone based on any self-proclaimed title .. but who, instead, feel such much be earned. I believe it's always been exactly this way, so I don't know where one would get the idea that respect is automatic.

It all depends on whom you ask. If someone gives respect automatically, I would hope they apply such equally to all sides of the BDSM acronym ... Master, slave, switch and all the rest of the labels.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 5

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/29/2006 11:57:14 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

and if you dont like or agree with someones opinions and views then why respond to them why not just move on and let bygones be bygones whether you believe they are a real Dom/Domme or not."

That would make for a rather boring forum.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 6

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 12:27:31 AM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

This is a common lament, and always rendered ineffectual by the idea that Dom/Dommes are the only ones worty of respect.

Unless in a D/S relationship, I feel no one deserves any sort of automatic respect, other than the same respect and courtesy all deserve.

If the question is: why aren't people more respectful in general, then the answer is easy:

"Kids today....!"

Which, in turn, IMO, is a reflection on parents today....

ZWD

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to OedipusRexIt)

Post #: 7

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 12:50:57 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline

Your question started me thinking about the difference between today's BDSM and historical "respectful" BDSM. With the advent of the internet, everyone knows about BDSM. It's become almost a fad with younger people. While some of those younger people are mature and have bothered to educate themselves, many of them blunder around, making foolish mistakes, hurting people and acting like total jackasses. While they give themselves the name of Domme, Dom, Mistress or Master they do not have the training, maturity, patience or experience to claim any of those titles. Historically, those titles were conferred by peers, rather than adopted by oneself. You had to prove to a group that you had training, experience and the maturity needed to guide others. Often times, people started at the "bottom" and worked their way up; subbing before they could be counted as a Dominant. Because of the practice of earning the title, when someone had Mistress/Master/Domme/Dom as part of their name, you knew that even if you didn't get along with them, they were worthy of respect.

Now, with the lifestyle as a topic in popular media as well as available easily on the internet, people are aware of the lifestyle. Anyone can claim any title they choose. I'm pretty sure that my cat signs on at times as Master Grand Poobah of the Universe. While I will agree that my cat has very dominant tendencies, his lack of foresight and due diligence of care for his subs (We get non consensually scratched all the time!), he is not a Master. One does not wake up one morning and decide one is a Mistress/Master. You can start the process of learning and becoming one, but it is not an instant thing. Even if one is Dominant or submissive in their day to day life, it doesn't mean they are automatically a Dom/me or a sub. It can mean they have a leaning towards one side or the other. However, some people who are very Dominant in every day life are actually submissive in their personal lives.

Because of people who are not qualified claiming the titles, it is hard to just give someone who claims to be a Dominant blanket respect. While I offer everyone, Dominant, submissive, vanilla, common courtesy, my respect is harder to gain.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 8

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 1:09:37 AM

feistykitten

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline

What if you work in a very formal workplace.....and lets say that you think your boss is a total idiot..... and thats ok cause that is your opinion but you wouldnt tell him that when he comes to your desk and asks you to do something. you would simply say "yes Sir" and do it. That is token respect....you dont have to agree with anything they say nor do you have to like them. but because he carries the title of boss (and it doesnt even matter how he made it that far up the ladder) you say Sir.

but the original question doesnt have anything to do with or about the forums

just a bit more of my two cents. *shrugs*

< Message edited by feistykitten -- 6/30/2006 1:12:36 AM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 9

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 1:16:25 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feistykitten

What if you work in a very formal workplace.....and lets say that you think your boss is a total idiot..... and thats ok cause that is your opinion but you wouldnt tell him that when he comes to your desk and asks you to do something. you would simply say "yes Sir" and do it. That is token respect....you dont have to agree with anything they say nor do you have to like them. but because he carries the title of boss (and it doesnt even matter how he made it that far up the ladder) you say Sir.
just a bit more of my two cents. *shrugs*

Giving respect means much more to me than lip service and just because someone carries the title of 'boss' doesn't mean they get such lip service from me. There is also a difference between someone coming in with a self-proclaimed title and someone who has earned the title of boss. In any event, total idiots are not deserving of my respect just because.. (insert reason here) and I certainly wouldn't work for someone whom I considered a total idiot.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 10

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 1:23:37 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

If someone I didn't know showed me undue respect I would find it rather disturbing and uncomfortable because I wouldn't have earned it and I'd worry about the stability of the person showing that undue respect. Common courtesy is enough but that is also very rare on the internet. Though misintepretation is vey easy online and one of the reasons I suspect common courtesy is rare. Someone giving a straight answer can very easily come across as condescending, arrogant or just plain aggressive without meaning to.

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 11

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 2:32:05 AM

twicetempted

Posts: 2
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline

To BeachMystress who said :- Anyone can claim any title they choose. I'm pretty sure that my cat signs on at times as Master Grand Poobah of the Universe. While I will agree that my cat has very dominant tendencies, his lack of foresight and due diligence of care for his subs (We get non consensually scratched all the time!), he is not a Master.

Does this mean that all the promises Master Grand Poobah of the Universe made to me about our future together are worthless?

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 12

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 2:42:48 AM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

With all these respect issues that come up, I finally decided to look the word up in the dictionary. Now before I looked it up I would have said I respected everyone. After I look it up, I had to think about it....

It said Respect : to hold someone in esteem or with high regard.

ok..so I thought about that....I cant just hold everyone with esteem and high regard, heck how would I know if they were deserving of that? But then I thought, well I just generally hold everyone in high regard as a human being, or even as for the spirit they have inside them...so thats sits ok with me...back to respecting everyone for me~ *grin*

I guess though, there are degrees of respect hey

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to twicetempted)

Post #: 13

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 3:18:11 AM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

"Everyman[person] has three characters-that of which he exibits;
that which he exhibits,
that which he has,
and that which he thinks he has".
~Alphone Karr

It may be difficult at first to decipher which one these statements above someone really holds.
So for myself, I observe to find out about the character which s/he has and if I find a person who stands strong in her/his character, owns and exhibits said character and is gracious in it, is entitled to a certain degree of my respect. The level of respect is as to how solid said character remains over time and how I am personally treated.

The only Dom/Domina(outside of my personal relationships) that get my respect are the one's I have found that with out a doubt deserve it. Then is not difficult for me to give it freely and with-out hesitation.

Just anyone who has laid claim to a "Title" that may deserve respect doesn't just get it from me, not even a Boss and I like Bita would not work for such a person who demanded it from me.

I'm no Eddie Haskels.

*Brightspot

< Message edited by brightspot -- 6/30/2006 3:22:01 AM >

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-TD4TwEw8crWS3GHFDcs_DK1rHmW6Dq_E;_ylt=Av2PfG9gH0wkQrMPivuMCivGAOJ3

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 14

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 4:01:26 AM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

I think your question feeds into a misconception some Dom/mes have on Internet message boards. They confuse "respect" with "compliance." I have great respect for everyone on the boards, including both male dominants, female dominants, male submissives, female submissives and any other bdsm demographic that isn't covered. I am friendly, kind, helpful, insightful, offering and compassionate with all of these people. But that's usually NOT what these people are seeking when they ask this question. Quite often, they want compliance from those of whom have never desired nor decided to submit to them in any way, shape or form. When I first started out on the Internet, it was known that I am a female supremacist (yeah, get over it...my definitions are much different than everyone else's so I'm not spending the next four pages explaining or apologizing for myself), yet most often I was attacked by male doms who felt that because I am a submissive, I must ALSO be "respectful" towards them. They weren't asking for me to be friendly, which I always am, but they were asking for an acceptance of their superiority that isn't going to happen, because they have decided their dominance makes any submissive automatically submissive to them and thus, someone who must pay them EXTRA respect. I can't even begin to count the number of times a male dom in a couple dominant situation who felt that he had to "set the record straight" with me because his female partner was in conversation with me (without an actual D/s element to the conversation but just because something about me caused her to want to talk to me) and then he threw a fit because my respectful responses to HER inquiries didn't also address his partnership in their dominance, even though I wasn't applying to serve either HER, him or both.

That's what I assume has become a rallying, yet futile, call of the dominant who doesn't feel he or she is receiving the "respect" he or she feels is warranted.

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 15

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 4:09:41 AM

foxnotinsox

Posts: 84
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: eastern Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

..."what happened to the time where even token respect was afforded Doms/Dommes known or not, and what happened to this community as a whole when one sits there in judgement of another because their views do not conform with those of others?? wasnt this life at one time based on mutual respect for such diversity?

Hmmmm ... I want to know what's this guy smokin' .. and where can I can some? Is that what's he referring to when speaking of token?? Cause it sounds like some sort of la-la land =]

Mutual respect for diversity .. rolls off the tongue rather nicely, but what does it mean? I'm somewhat confused as the questioner themselves also has it confused .. by asking the next question ...

quote:

...and if you dont like or agree with someones opinions and views then why respond to them why not just move on and let bygones be bygones whether you believe they are a real Dom/Domme or not."

Let bygones be bygones? Hmm so it's OK for a dominant to state a view in such a manner to *have* bygones, and then demand respect? or that others keep their mouths shut and not express a discenting opintion? ... =] No, not quite. The problem of *not* responding is two-fold. One is that a differing view is not heard .. for just as a dominant can have an opinion, a submissive likewise has one (heheh or many). And two, by *not* responding the dominant is given the impression that their view is *the one* .. or the manner is which that view is stated (that produced the "bygones" situation;) is actually acceptable .. and it's not.

Respect I find is a two-way street. If you are not willing to offer it, then why expect any back? If you want to have a friend, ya gotta be a friend .. give unto others as you would have yourself.. and other good things your momma should have taught ya =)

What has happened to the community is that it has become cynical .. because of all those who use it for power grabs, or easy sex, or even a soapbox to stand on.

As for kids today, it's not just their parents but society as a whole. It's the breakdown of family .. not just the nuclear one, but also the extended and lack of sympathy and support. It's the corruption within industry and government, and exploitation of resources for one's own personal gain. Simply put .. it's everything and not just one thing .. and it's so easy to blame something else when we're all responsible.

It's tough to do, but I try to model the behaviour I desire .. have difficulty with arrogance and pushiness as a character trait, but try also to respond to the topic and not the person.

Ohhh and to be as gentle and humourous as possible .. cause it's hard to take something in when it's being rammed down your throat.

Have a wonderful day!

< Message edited by foxnotinsox -- 6/30/2006 4:11:48 AM >

_____________________________

oxox,foX
Veni vidi veni

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 16

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 4:23:07 AM

smilezz

Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline

Are you speaking of online or r/l? curious.

~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 17

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 4:26:29 AM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

Why would anyone want token respect?

I don't think people should be rude, I think they should be treated with basic courtesy. That does not include, however, the use of honorifics. The moment a submissive person uses an honorific with a dominant person, she's allowing that person a modicum of control. She's opening a small vulnerability in herself to that person. There are those that will take advantage of it. There are those that won't. Any control and vulnerability I offer will be to someone with whom I have begun building trust and a relationship. The honorific has a different significance and carries more weight within the lifestyle than without.

Without, being in my job, I call my boss Sir. He's my boss. I call his boss Sir. He's the owner of the company. I call our customers Sir or Ma'am. They're our customers. I call my vendors Sir or Ma'am. They're my vendors.

Say I'm in public and a nice guy holds a door for me. I'll say, Thank you, Sir. Say someone drops something, it's, "Ma'am, you dropped this." I don't have the knowledge of these people's names, yet they deserve my attention for one reason or another. Sir or Ma'am takes the place of a name. If I would have known the person, I would have said, "Thank you, Bob" or "Ruby, you dropped this."

Respect is still there. If someone feels slighted because he's not been given an honorific by a stranger in the lifestyle context, it makes it all the clearer to me that he doesn't deserve it.

The application of respect is different for everyone. Do what you feel is right, and allow others to do the same.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 18

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 4:41:40 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

It's a little like the Military .. You salute the rank not necessarily the man. Then comes the precious few who irresective of rank others even the most elevated desire to salute the Man.... Some get it in token because of what they are and some get itbecause of who they are.....

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to feastie)

Post #: 19

RE: where has all the respect gone? - 6/30/2006 4:42:20 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feistykitten

What if you work in a very formal workplace.....and lets say that you think your boss is a total idiot..... and thats ok cause that is your opinion but you wouldnt tell him that when he comes to your desk and asks you to do something. you would simply say "yes Sir" and do it. That is token respect....you dont have to agree with anything they say nor do you have to like them. but because he carries the title of boss (and it doesnt even matter how he made it that far up the ladder) you say Sir.

but the original question doesnt have anything to do with or about the forums

just a bit more of my two cents. *shrugs*

And respect has nothing to do with whether you are polite to your boss or not.

If my boss is an ass, I will be polite and tell him hes an ass. I have never called a boss Sir just because hes boss? How lame is that? I am expected to lie? Which ones worse? I would rather be polite and honest than lie and faux respect. Token respect is empty and pointless and the most disrespectful thing you can do to yourself and the person you are being false with. Doing something 'just cause' makes you untrustworthy because its nothing but pseudo personality.

People are so big on respect. Your mixing up respect with politeness. You can be polite to someone, whether there dominant, submissive or switch personality... But respect you cannot possibly give until you know someone. Respect comes from knowledge - no more, no less.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to feistykitten)

Post #: 20

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