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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 6:25:07 AM   
Tantriqu


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Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		The timeline is reversed: religion is a symptom of depression.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 6:44:04 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed

I wonder how the upshot of this study might affect the uber-religist Tea Pots whom the GOP accuse of high-jacking their (previously) respectable Party.



I doubt it will affect them at all. In fact I honestly can't see anyone reading this and exclaiming "Now I see the light" as they throw away their bibles. And that goes for the religious left as well as the right. Now it may make a few athiests feel superior but that's about it.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 6:45:58 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

The timeline is reversed: religion is a symptom of depression.



That is interesting. I have read a lot about depression and I never saw anything that pointed to that conclusion. Would you mind sharing the link.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 6:46:31 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Now it may make a few athiests feel superior but that's about it.

I suspect that was the whole point of the thread.

K.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 6:50:03 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		What a sad piece that article is. The saddest part is someone probably got compensated for it.

Religion does not cause depression, people cause their depression.

If one is looking to people who go to church on Sunday and say "I love you with the love of the Lord sister" then leave and fight with their family all week, and gossip about the person who didn't dress to their standards, then YES QUITE DEPRESSING!
If you decide to get saved on Sunday, and expect life to be roses on Tuesday, well I guarantee, one is going to be very disappointed and depressed.
Having a relationship with GOd is serious business, it is hard work, and requires daily study and prayer. THe truth is it can tear you down to the very foundation, and make you see your problems very directly as your mind renews, and one can feel grief for the errors. It gets hard seeing what one has to change and a lot of people give up then and never get their reward for fathfulness. Its a narrow path that requires change, and its a life long process, and a lot of people will not make the changes required because they either don't want too, or they give up and feel they can not change. We chose the wrong things, feel bad and then wonder why.




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I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 7:02:23 AM   
graceadieu


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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Having been dragged down a deeply religious path for a few years in my teens, and seen more than a few of the seriously fucked-up people who decide that they are going to try plunging deeply into religion to magically fix all their problems, I'm not surprised by the finding you did share in the OP.


You know, we don't agree on a lot of stuff, but I had the same experience and totally agree with you on this. And part of the cause of that is that evangelical religious groups tend to recruit hard among people who are lonely or going through emotional difficulties. I mean, they view it as offering help from God and are largely well-intentioned, but still.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 7:04:54 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed

I wonder how the upshot of this study might affect the uber-religist Tea Pots whom the GOP accuse of high-jacking their (previously) respectable Party.



snip
Now it may make a few athiests feel superior but that's about it.

apparently not

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 7:04:55 AM   
Tantriqu


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Status: offline 		http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8826658&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0033291712003066

"Spiritual and religious beliefs as risk factors for the onset of major depression: an international cohort study", let alone other psychiatric conditions including social anxiety, paranoia, psychosis, kleptomania, and paedophilia.

100 years from now, secular beliefs, like masturbation in the 19th century, will be the cure and the norm instead of a malady.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 7:09:12 AM   
dcnovice


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The conclusions in the blog entry and the article abstract seemed far more nuanced those in the OP.

I'd like to read the whole article, but I'm a bit too cheap to pay $45 for it.

ETA: Are the study authors assuming that the presence or absence of major depression is the only yardstick of psychological wellness or benefit? That seems to be the case, but I may be misreading.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 10/5/2013 7:18:54 AM >

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 7:09:57 AM   
Kirata


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~ FR ~

We reviewed data from approximately 80 published and unpublished studies that examined the association of religious affiliation or involvement with depressive symptoms or depressive disorder. In these studies, religion was measured as religious affiliation; general religious involvement; organizational religious involvement; prayer or private religious involvement; religious salience and motivation; or religious beliefs.

People from some religious affiliations appear to have an elevated risk for depressive symptoms and depressive disorder, and people with no religious affiliation are at an elevated risk in comparison with people who are religiously affiliated. People with high levels of general religious involvement, organizational religious involvement, religious salience, and intrinsic religious motivation are at reduced risk for depressive symptoms and depressive disorders.

Private religious activity and particular religious beliefs appear to bear no reliable relationship with depression. People with high levels of extrinsic religious motivation are at increased risk for depressive symptoms. Although these associations tend to be consistent, they are modest and are substantially reduced in multivariate research. Longitudinal research is sparse, but suggests that some forms of religious involvement might exert a protective effect against the incidence and persistence of depressive symptoms or disorders. ~Source

That's from 1999. A large longitudinal study was reported in 2012:

The authors examined whether early onset of a major depressive episode (MDE) predicted a subsequent decrease in religious service attendance. Data came from 3 follow-up studies of the National Collaborative Perinatal Project birth cohort (mean age = 37 years at last follow-up; n = 2,097; 1959–2001). The generalized estimating equations method was used to calculate the impact of an early MDE diagnosis (before age 18 years) on the likelihood of change in level of religious service attendance from childhood to adulthood.

Twenty-seven percent of study participants met the criteria for lifetime MDE (n = 567), of whom 31% had their first onset prior to age 18 years. Women with early MDE onset were 1.42 times more likely (95% confidence interval: 1.19, 1.70) than women with adult-onset MDE or no lifetime MDE to stop attending religious services by the time of the first adult follow-up wave. No significant associations were observed among men.

These findings suggest that women are more likely to stop attending religious services after onset of depression. Selection out of religious activities [by women] could be a significant contributor to previously observed inverse correlations between religious service attendance and psychopathology during adulthood. ~Source

K.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 7:15:45 AM   
dcnovice


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The decline in attending services during or after an MDE doesn't surprise me. In the throes of depression, leaving the house for anything is a major feat, at least in my experience with this brutal disease. I can honestly say I've found depression at least as immobilizing as cancer.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 7:20:28 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Religion does not cause depression, people cause their depression.

Oh please, this is such crap . . . blaming the victims for their illness.

quote:

We chose the wrong things, feel bad and then wonder why.

And this shows you have no clue about the difference between clinical depression and "feeling bad."


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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 9:31:42 AM   
chatterbox24


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Joined: 1/22/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Religion does not cause depression, people cause their depression.

Oh please, this is such crap . . . blaming the victims for their illness.

quote:

We chose the wrong things, feel bad and then wonder why.

And this shows you have no clue about the difference between clinical depression and "feeling bad."




VINCENTML Don't you be a big meanie with me!

Yes there are people with severe mental problems and they just cant help it. It is debilitating and devastating. They are victims and its a very hard road. BUt a lot of depression stems from self pity and self concentration and lack of motivation to change. One of the hardest things to do is rise above when all you want to do is stick your head under the covers. You know how I know that? Because I suffered from a lot more then depression. I mean how many problems could be instilled in one human being was my thought?

Anyway regardless, blaming religion for depression is like blaming the coffee company for the stain on my shirt for missing my mouth.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 9:55:21 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

BUt a lot of depression stems from self pity and self concentration and lack of motivation to change.

What's your source for this?

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 10:24:35 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

much of religious dogma and the blind faith in it depresses the hell outta me... so I tend to keep away from it


Ditto that. If I want to wallow in fantasies (which is a questionable cure for depression at best), I'd rather those that I can get from invigorating pictures on the internet than those of a bunch of bearded fruitcakes from two thousand years ago.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 10:27:57 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Does the religion cause depression or do the depressed seek solace in religion?


This was a prospective study in other words it's designed in such a way to avoid being skewed by confounding factors like this. This study found that the small benefit some studies have show for religion comes from the depressed dropping out of religion and that religion does not help depression.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 10:34:29 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

If I want to wallow in fantasies... I'd rather those that I can get from invigorating pictures on the internet

Yanno, you may be onto something there. Thinking about the '72 black-eyed virgins with pear-shaped breasts' bit, do you suppose maybe depression is at the root of the Jihad problem?

K.

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RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 4:41:33 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I doubt it will affect them at all. In fact I honestly can't see anyone reading this and exclaiming "Now I see the light" as they throw away their bibles. And that goes for the religious left as well as the right. Now it may make a few athiests feel superior but that's about it.


Hopefully this study will help diminish descrimination against atheists and the non religious. Take this for example:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-page/marine-corps-religious-discrimination_b_3647235.html
"Lack or loss of spiritual faith" is included as a "Guidance/moral compass issue" in both of these documents under a list of risk indicators for use by "leaders at all levels" to "identify and address risky behavior or events that may lead to risky behavior, as soon as possible." This apparent character flaw is juxtaposed with such things as "lack of courage," "history of psychiatric hospitalizations," "past or current substance abuse history," and being "anti-social." In the simplest terms, it is the current official position of the United States Marine Corps that those who do not profess a religious belief or choose to leave their religion are to be considered a potential hazard to themselves and the Corps and be placed under greater scrutiny than their peers.

The documents go on to include directives on how to convene a "Force Preservation Council" with the mission to evaluate and assist Marines that are identified as high risk through the checklist of undesirable traits (such as lack of religion).


Hard data exposing these religious beliefs as nothing more than superstitious flimflam has real world career effecting implications.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 4:45:34 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Hard data exposing these religious beliefs as nothing more than superstitious flimflam

That's quite a leap--of faith?--from any of the sources you cited.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: religion may cause depression - 10/5/2013 4:48:18 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
If one is looking to people who go to church on Sunday and say "I love you with the love of the Lord sister" then leave and fight with their family all week, and gossip about the person who didn't dress to their standards, then YES QUITE DEPRESSING!
If you decide to get saved on Sunday, and expect life to be roses on Tuesday, well I guarantee, one is going to be very disappointed and depressed.
Having a relationship with GOd is serious business, it is hard work, and requires daily study and prayer. THe truth is it can tear you down to the very foundation, and make you see your problems very directly as your mind renews, and one can feel grief for the errors. It gets hard seeing what one has to change and a lot of people give up then and never get their reward for fathfulness. Its a narrow path that requires change, and its a life long process, and a lot of people will not make the changes required because they either don't want too, or they give up and feel they can not change. We chose the wrong things, feel bad and then wonder why.


I've got to say chatterbox this whole thing reads like a testamonial that religion causes depression.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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