RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance!

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (Full Version)

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Icarys -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (10/31/2013 2:20:39 AM)
"Or until I get seriously ill. In which case I'll quit my job and sign up for it. You want to force obamacare on people .. congrats - be prepared for people to resist." Yep, resist it is. Recently moved to my less than $8200 a year life for the foreseeable future. You're not going to take my money and wage wars, waste trillions, spy on me and then force me to buy corporate collusion products. I've greatly reduced "my" socialistic fascism feeding footprint. DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS! :)

thompsonx -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (10/31/2013 7:50:46 AM)
The richer a country is, the less money (typically) it spends on food, shelter, etc. This would be unsubstatiated opinion. Poor people in poor countries are dealing with food - they don't have time to pay for healthcare. That was the problem here in the u.s. poor people dealing with food-they dont have time to pay for healthcare.[8\|]

thompsonx -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (10/31/2013 7:58:33 AM)
If it's such a "Duhhhh" answer, then why hasn't there been any advancement towards that? It would seem that our elected officials aren't smarter than "Duhhhh." It would seem that some of them have engaged in obstructionism more than 40 times.

thompsonx -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (10/31/2013 9:54:19 AM)
I've greatly reduced "my" socialistic fascism feeding footprint. DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS! :) Are you no longer using police,fire and public utilities?[8\|]

papassion -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (10/31/2013 10:46:17 AM)
Some previous posters have claimed that 50,000 or so people die annually from the lack of healthcare. Whose fault is that? Hospitals must treat you if you present with a serious condition. But staying away from hospitals might be a smart move. The Scientific American, Sept 20, 2013, has an article "How many die from medical mistakes in hospitals." An updated estimate says it could be at least 210,000 patients a year, more than twice the number in a frequently quoted Institute of Medicine Report. Wonder how much this number will increase with everyone being able to go for "free" healthcare, thus being exposed to medical mistakes?

mnottertail -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (10/31/2013 10:48:12 AM)
I dont know, that is why there will be no tort reform. Somebody graduated with a D.

thompsonx -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (10/31/2013 12:18:25 PM)
Wonder how much this number will increase with everyone being able to go for "free" healthcare, thus being exposed to medical mistakes? Where did you acquire the notion that health care was free?

Icarys -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/1/2013 8:31:08 PM)
Didn't read what you quoted huh sweetpea. Greatly reduce means what it means but to answer your redickulust question... no, I handle my own fire and police related problems, especially since I live about 20 to 40 minutes from them... as for utilities... solar, no running water. I'll see your [8\|] and raise you [8\|][8\|]. [;)]

Phydeaux -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/1/2013 10:11:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Laughable stuff about weanting an honest debate Phydeaux. Most of your post is bullshit, with not a link or a fact to support your claims. As for cherry picking individual health problems to try and back up such an absurd post, good luck with that. Overall, life expectancy is higher in the UK than the US, not that facts matter, overall you spend more per capita than we do, not that facts matter. What was that about wanting an "honest debate" ? DS, according to this link your figures about GDP% spending are incorrect. Please note that per Capita and % of GDP are not the same thing anyway, but you are spending 17% of GDP and not 10% as you claim. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jun/30/healthcare-spending-world-country I never claimed to want an honest debate here. I've long recognized that y'all on the left will twist, obfuscate and flat out lie. I was referring to passing a law such as obamacare with such glaring lies as "if you like your insurance you can keep it". See, even trying to frame the question of medicine as a question of life expectancy is dishonest. As I explained before thats like trying to determine weight with a ruler. Life expectancy is a function of poverty, excercise, obesity, genetics, immigration, disease control, work habits, death by violence. Trying to say that UK medicine is better than US medicine because of greater life expectancy is just flat out ridiculous. Especially as this has been studied time and time again. IF you have a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer, prostate cancer, lung cancer, ovarian cancer - your prognosis is better in the US. In fact - I havent brushed up recently, but I think of 20 major causes of death, british care exceed american care only in oral cancer.

tweakabelle -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 2:11:45 AM)
The audacity of some of the claims made by those critical of Obamacare is staggering. Healthcare isn't a right - it's a "perk'! Lack of healthcare isn't a cause of death, even though the US Institute of Medicine estimates 50,000 Americans dies annually because of 'lack of healthcare"! Life expectancy isn't a 'medical' issue! The right to life doesn't include or imply a right to healthcare! "Competition" drives healthcare cost down even though they are twice as high in the only country that operates a competition driven healthcare system! Freedom includes the freedom to die an unnecessary premature death! And so on .... each claim as ridiculous and far fetched as the next ......... Put them together and they sound like a Monty Python script. Surreal. Absurd. As twisted as Salvador Dali's famous mustache. Even more astonishing is that these ludicrous claims are advanced sincerely, with the expectation that they should be taken seriously. It's enough to induce a healthcare related condition. [8\|]

joether -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 5:16:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux I never claimed to want an honest debate here. I've long recognized that y'all on the left will twist, obfuscate and flat out lie. Should really check over all your posts on all these threads of this forum. Its a rarity when your NOT trying to twist or obfuscate something. The amount of time that you truth and fact in these threads is about as often as I post just a single word reply to anyone on here. I think I've done it once or twice in the whole time. What's my post count now? quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux I was referring to passing a law such as obamacare with such glaring lies as "if you like your insurance you can keep it". Funny how the only people that call it lying are the same ones that still say there are 'massive stockpiles' of 'weapons of mass destruction' in Iraq. I've not once in a decade found one conservative tell me 'we should not have gone there and more importantly, blew $4 Trillion of borrowed money on it". quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux See, even trying to frame the question of medicine as a question of life expectancy is dishonest. As I explained before thats like trying to determine weight with a ruler. Life expectancy is a function of poverty, excercise, obesity, genetics, immigration, disease control, work habits, death by violence. You forgot two major items: Ignorance and Reckless-Foolishness. Why is it most Darwin Award winners in the USA these days vote conservative? I REALLY try not to laugh at how some of these people died....common sense really isn't common with conservatives anymore. quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Trying to say that UK medicine is better than US medicine because of greater life expectancy is just flat out ridiculous. I'm not trying to say it, I AM saying it. In fact, Massachusetts medicine is better than your state's medicine. For starters we have the best schools located in Boston, MA. The interior of the I-495 corridor is rich with biotech companies of all sorts. The hospitals used very high tech gear in serving patients. And we have Mass Health! quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Especially as this has been studied time and time again. IF you have a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer, prostate cancer, lung cancer, ovarian cancer - your prognosis is better in the US. In fact - I havent brushed up recently, but I think of 20 major causes of death, british care exceed american care only in oral cancer. But all means, cite this argument of yours with some actual medical sources. You'll find its the 'blue states' that are doing the bulk of the research and treatment than 'red states'. People with advanced health problems are going to gravitate towards the sources most likely to treat them. Right now, the major biological tech hubs are in California and Massachusetts. After that there is New York, another blue state. It should not be surprising that in all three locations, state and private schools of higher education in biology, medicine, and biochemistry attract brilliant minds whom then get picked up into an abundance of private and public sector work areas. Go right ahead and bash the European nations on their cancer fight. It simply shows the depth of your ignorance and lack-of-wisdom. Since all of these scientific areas....TALK....and.........COMPARE NOTES....with each other. You have shown in the past a complete lack of even the very basic elements and ideas of science, so I'm not surprised your pushing this like some sort of 'little league football match'.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 7:00:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle The audacity of some of the claims made by those critical of Obamacare is staggering. Healthcare isn't a right - it's a "perk'! Employers providing insurance was most definitely a perk for the employees. quote: Lack of healthcare isn't a cause of death, even though the US Institute of Medicine estimates 50,000 Americans dies annually because of 'lack of healthcare"! How much you want to bet that the US IoM would agree that lack of health care failed to prevent death and that the disease state was the actual cause of death? quote: Life expectancy isn't a 'medical' issue! Wrong accusation there. The claim was that life expectancy is a function of several other things, which is, most definitely accurate. The claim was that life expectancy as a metric of health care isn't an honest measuring, which is absolutely true. quote: The right to life doesn't include or imply a right to healthcare! Your rights don't include a mandate for someone to produce and provide something to you. If the right to life included the right to healthcare, then it also includes a right to food, clothing, housing, etc. Does Government provide those for you, too? quote: "Competition" drives healthcare cost down even though they are twice as high in the only country that operates a competition driven healthcare system! Market failures will happen when there is no regulation, and because of government regulation. That we operate under a "free Market" system and have regulations preventing some forms of competition and not preventing other forms (monopolies, oligopolies, etc.) certainly does not mean that we have a properly competing Market. quote: Freedom includes the freedom to die an unnecessary premature death! And so on .... each claim as ridiculous and far fetched as the next ......... Put them together and they sound like a Monty Python script. Surreal. Absurd. As twisted as Salvador Dali's famous mustache. Even more astonishing is that these ludicrous claims are advanced sincerely, with the expectation that they should be taken seriously. It's enough to induce a healthcare related condition. [8\|] Your inability to understand our points, from our points of view is either a failure of our ability to explain, or your ability to see things from our POV. Your ideas for the US are equally as ludicrous to those of us who don't agree with you.

tweakabelle -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 8:45:08 AM)
quote: Your inability to understand our points, from our points of view is either a failure of our ability to explain, or your ability to see things from our POV. Your ideas for the US are equally as ludicrous to those of us who don't agree with you. DS, I do understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate that you advance your argument passionately and consistently. Nonetheless, when I take a step back from this discussion, and review what I am reading, sorry but I have a WTF!!! moment. Perhaps you ought to appreciate that Americans posting here seem in the main to be pro-universal health schemes with a significant minority dissenting loudly from that position. But among those of us who live in countries with universal health schemes, I can't think of any one who argues against these schemes. Whether it's the UK, Europe or Australia, and regardless of an individual's location on the political spectrum, everyone who enjoys the benefits of a universal scheme seems to be in favour of such schemes. There's a lesson in there somewhere.

Phydeaux -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 8:50:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: Your inability to understand our points, from our points of view is either a failure of our ability to explain, or your ability to see things from our POV. Your ideas for the US are equally as ludicrous to those of us who don't agree with you. DS, I do understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate that you advance your argument passionately and consistently. Nonetheless, when I take a step back from this discussion, and review what I am reading, sorry but I have a WTF!!! moment. Perhaps you ought to appreciate that Americans posting here seem in the main to be pro-universal health schemes with a significant minority dissenting loudly from that position. But among those of us who live in countries with universal health schemes, I can't think of any one who argues against these schemes. Whether it's the UK, Europe or Australia, and regardless of an individual's location on the political spectrum, everyone who enjoys the benefits of a universal scheme seems to be in favour of such schemes. There's a lesson in there somewhere. Gee what a surprise. Children like free icecream.

Phydeaux -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 8:54:14 AM)
quote: . quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Trying to say that UK medicine is better than US medicine because of greater life expectancy is just flat out ridiculous. I'm not trying to say it, I AM saying it. In fact, Massachusetts medicine is better than your state's medicine. For starters we have the best schools located in Boston, MA. The interior of the I-495 corridor is rich with biotech companies of all sorts. The hospitals used very high tech gear in serving patients. And we have Mass Health! Do you have the slightest understanding that UK refers to the United Kingdom AKA Great Britain? That massachussets is a wholely different country? Now I knwo you won't believe it - but there was a war fought on this very point.

Lucylastic -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 9:10:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Gee what a surprise. Children like free icecream. The ice cream isnt free, for anyone, another falsehood

njlauren -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 9:18:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl A group of businesses and individuals are trying to get rid of subsidies in states that refused to set up their own exchanges. One man fighting against the subsidies doesn't want to choose between purchasing health insurance for $18/month or paying the penalty, which figures out to $12/month. His reasoning: If he wasn't eligible for subsidies, he would be eligible for an exemption. The reality: He's in dire need of health insurance so he can have his head examined. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-declines-halt-obamacare-insurance-subsidies-183920540--sector.html Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that? It's not always going to be about the cost. The cost being so low for this guy should make one realize how much this guy doesn't want the Federal Government to be making the decisions about his health care. It's one thing when the costs are higher than what you've been paying to oppose it. But, with the costs being so low, it's a matter of principle. Does no one stand up for principles anymore? The problem with standing up for principles is how far they are willing to do for them. It is part of the whole problem with the tea party movement, where they are claiming they want to kill off the federal government and all it pays for....except is it for them. The farm lobby and the big agribusiness lobby were all yelling and screaming when they came up with a farm bill that cut 10's of billions from the ridiculous to sublime subsidies that on top of everything else, make americans less healthy and instead of giving them a healthier lifestyle, gives them processed food that is crap....yet the same morons were cheering how they cut food stamps, getting those 'lazy people' off the government payroll. It was the like the libertarians who fought against helmet laws riding on motorcycles as 'taking away their freedom', yet when one of those people get into a motorcycle accident and need millions of dollars in treatment, a lot of the time picked up by either cost shifting onto others or via government payments, suddenly they have the right to demand treatment. If this guy was willing to sign a piece of paper and said "I won't buy health insurance, won't pay for it, and if I get sick or hurt and can't pay for it, I won't seek treatment" I would go along with it, I would say go for it. What people like this often are saying is "I resent being made to pay for health insurance", yet their principles don't seem to extend to forcing other people to pay for them when something happens....and that is what generally happens. Anyone remember the yokel down in Tennessee who refused to pay his 75 buck a year tax to pay for the fire department, then his house caught fire and suddenly he said he would pay the tax if they would put out the fire? Leaving out, of course, that the cost of coming out to put out the fire was about 10k....... One of the biggest problems with health insurance today is it is so disjointed, we have a system that has these isolated pools of people in insurance, and it ends up being a mess. Even in a group plan, a family health insurance plan is running about 15-16k a year in premiums, paid for by the employer and employer. Try to do that yourself, and it can be several k a month for a standard plan. The problem with guys like this is they want their cake and eat it too, he wants to not have to pay for insurance, but then wants to be treated if something happens. I think Obama fouled up, I quite honestly think when he passed obama care that the law should read that if anyone waives the insurance requirement, that he have tattooed on himself and his dependents that if they get sick or hurt, the hospital doesn't have to treat them.....if people are going to fight for principles, then they need to stand up and go all the way with them, what clowns like this are doing is being cute and clever on one end, while taking from others when the shit hits the fan. It is like people saying medicare is so cost efficient, when they do that by paying a fraction of the cost of the services, which doctors and hospitals shift to everyone else.

mnottertail -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 9:23:19 AM)
quote: Do you have the slightest understanding that UK refers to the United Kingdom AKA Great Britain? The UK and Great Britain are not AKA shit. So don't be waxing eloquent about your slight understandings. England is England. Great Britain is England, Wales, and Scotland. The United Kingdom is England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. That is like saying the south is the United States of America.

joether -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 9:29:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: . quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Trying to say that UK medicine is better than US medicine because of greater life expectancy is just flat out ridiculous. I'm not trying to say it, I AM saying it. In fact, Massachusetts medicine is better than your state's medicine. For starters we have the best schools located in Boston, MA. The interior of the I-495 corridor is rich with biotech companies of all sorts. The hospitals used very high tech gear in serving patients. And we have Mass Health! Do you have the slightest understanding that UK refers to the United Kingdom AKA Great Britain? That massachussets is a wholely different country? Now I knwo you won't believe it - but there was a war fought on this very point. I'm very much aware of what 'UK' means. I'm pointing out that one does not need to leave the 'lower 48' to find really good healthcare in operation. Do you know what 'lower 48' refers to?

njlauren -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 9:31:29 AM)
One of the big problems with our health care system is people don't even understand the issues with it, or the problems with it, and they are led by morons like Faux News into believing the problem is that the 'marketplace' is not allowed to solve the issues. So we hear, for example, that the cost of health care is because people have health insurance, so they run to the doctor for everything, they are getting 'free ice cream' and that is why it is expensive, and that in many cases is patentily untrue. We are told if we got rid of government regulation, that health care insurance companies would be popping up and competing, which is crap (yeah, you would get fly by night insurance companies popping up and dying, that collect premiums but don't pay)........ We hear how our health care is the best in the world, yet stats don't bare that out. Sure, you can get advanced, state of the art treatments (if you are rich enough or your insurance is good enough), yet we have stats on infant mortality, preventable diseases and the like, that are some of the worst in the western world. The other problem is that the medical industry is for profit, with all that entails. So doctors are pressured via perks and other things into prescribing expensive, state of the art medicines, when generics would do just as well. Pharm companies are allowed to advertise their ware to consumers, that make it seem like they are miracle drugs, which influences people to go to their doctor and demand some later thing they saw on tv.....rather than making rational decisions. People go to a hospital with a sprained ankle, and they run an MRI, not that they need one, but the hospital needs to pay for the MRi and its upkeep.....and so forth. Then we come to health insurers, which despite the bleating of the GOP, are making tons of money (sorry, but the head of United healthcare made 100 million a couple of years ago.....)....it is a mess. The pool of insured is fragmented, it is just a mess that isn't working right. The problem is that the underinsured or the uninsured are a burden on everyone, that the tea party nitwits and the GOP want to hide from. One of the reasons medicine is so expensive is that the underinsured and the non insured don't get treatment early, and something simply becomes a disaster. Kid gets strep ad doesn't get treated, gets turned into rheumatic fever and heart damage, that is expensive, and so forth. I heard some nitwit tea party jerk on NPR, talking about how someone would go from a 69 buck a month plan to having to pay 350 under obamacare; but as the host pointed out, the 69 'plan' was a discount plan, that covered very little, but the obama care plan was full coverage for office visits, hospitalization, etc....and if the 69 buck a month person ever got really sick, it is likely that others would end up paying the bill..the tea party person claimed they were the same thing, but they aren't, and one of the points of obamacare is that when people aren't fully covered, it ends up coming back to bite us al in the ass.... The real tea party/gop idea of health care is, if you are rich enough to afford it, fine, everyone else, well, screw you, the problem is their ides of health coverage ends up screwing everyone.

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