RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance!

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (Full Version)

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MyGarage -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 6:25:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Actually, Not that you're really interested in what conservatives are actually objecting to: I object to is stealing from our children to pay for my generation's programs. I object to you making medical choices for me. I'm fine with programs that try to help the poor. I object (strenuously) to deliberate lies like "if you like your health care you can keep it." Thank you. Edit: Uh, except programs that "try to help the poor." Let the poor help themselves, damn it. All that does is make more poor people. Heartless.

mnottertail -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 6:31:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: Not that you're really interested in what conservatives are actually objecting to: I object to is stealing from our children to pay for my generation's programs. But conservatives have actually stolen from their children, and not paid for their generations programs, which is what real conservatives object to. Borrow and spend, borrow and spend. And, in case you haven't been reading a lot of posts from Conservatives, many of us aren't exactly supportive of the spending actions of the GOP, either. I have not seen any actual conservatives posting on this board, with the exception of a guy who no longer posts here, and myself.

tweakabelle -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 6:48:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: tweakabelle Generally, right wing ideology hates the idea of collective action by people at the bottom of the pile. Consumers' interests can be seen as another market force, and a universal health scheme can be seen as 'enlightened self interest' by one actor in the healthcare marketplace. The comparison of a universal health scheme to "children liking free ice cream" could't be more inaccurate. Question: Is the Australian health care system set up like the UK's NHS (with government owned/run hospitals and some private hospitals; private insurance for things that people are willing to pay extra for [less waiting, etc.])? If not, how is it different? Conservatives don't hate collective action. Conservatives prefer collective action be individually chosen, rather than government forced. There is a parallel private health system in operation here for those who prefer to organise their own healthcare. While I understand the distinction you are drawing about collective action, the history of right wing attempts to impose constraints on trade unions doesn't exactly support your claim does it? Conservatives might like some collective action but only when they are doing the acting. When the have-nots exercise collective action, it's quite a different story.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 6:50:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MyGarage quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Actually, Not that you're really interested in what conservatives are actually objecting to: I object to is stealing from our children to pay for my generation's programs. I object to you making medical choices for me. I'm fine with programs that try to help the poor. I object (strenuously) to deliberate lies like "if you like your health care you can keep it." Thank you. Edit: Uh, except programs that "try to help the poor." Let the poor help themselves, damn it. All that does is make more poor people. Heartless. There are times, MG, when the poor are unable to help themselves. In those cases, it is good to help the poor (though I'd much rather a charity do so than government, but that's my own personal belief).

DesideriScuri -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 6:51:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: Not that you're really interested in what conservatives are actually objecting to: I object to is stealing from our children to pay for my generation's programs. But conservatives have actually stolen from their children, and not paid for their generations programs, which is what real conservatives object to. Borrow and spend, borrow and spend. And, in case you haven't been reading a lot of posts from Conservatives, many of us aren't exactly supportive of the spending actions of the GOP, either. I have not seen any actual conservatives posting on this board, with the exception of a guy who no longer posts here, and myself. It seems to me that your definition of "conservative" may be lacking, MN. [:D]

Lucylastic -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 6:55:20 AM)
The reason why the UK and Canada got a healthcare system that worked is because CHARITY didnt. Pesky poor people are a drain, pesky poor sick people dont have charities to help. IF you ever worked for one, you would know that the need, triples the ability to function, even with healthcare. Thats why charities exist these days, in most countries. With AND without healthcare PS MyGarage, thankyou for your.... erm...input:) you made my monday

Lucylastic -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 6:57:08 AM)
quote: Conservatives prefer collective action be individually chosen, rather than government forced Yeah cos thats working SO well Where????

DesideriScuri -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 7:05:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: tweakabelle Generally, right wing ideology hates the idea of collective action by people at the bottom of the pile. Consumers' interests can be seen as another market force, and a universal health scheme can be seen as 'enlightened self interest' by one actor in the healthcare marketplace. The comparison of a universal health scheme to "children liking free ice cream" could't be more inaccurate. Question: Is the Australian health care system set up like the UK's NHS (with government owned/run hospitals and some private hospitals; private insurance for things that people are willing to pay extra for [less waiting, etc.])? If not, how is it different? Conservatives don't hate collective action. Conservatives prefer collective action be individually chosen, rather than government forced. While I understand the distinction you are drawing about collective action, the history of right wing attempts to impose constraints on trade unions doesn't exactly support your claim does it? Conservatives might like some collective action but only when they are doing the acting. When the have-nots exercise collective action, it's quite a different story. What constraints on trade unions are you talking about? That workers can't be compelled to join a Union to work at a shop? That constraint? Right to work legislation doesn't prevent anyone from joining a Union, nor does it prevent a Union from negotiating with an employer (some legislation does make some things non-negotiable, but the right to negotiate is still there). The whole point of right-to-work is to prevent compelled Union membership (you know, "forced" rather than chosen membership). quote: There is a parallel private health system in operation here for those who prefer to organise their own healthcare. Is the system, as a whole, similar to the NHS, though? From what I've gathered on this board, is that the NHS system is much larger than the private system. Is that the same in Australia?

DesideriScuri -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 7:06:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: Conservatives prefer collective action be individually chosen, rather than government forced Yeah cos thats working SO well Where???? Do you agree or disagree with my assertion?

Lucylastic -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 7:09:13 AM)
you dont wanna know ....seriously.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 7:18:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic you dont wanna know ....seriously. I wouldn't have asked, Lucy. Seriously.

Lucylastic -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 7:25:20 AM)
There are enough jokes posting today, DS< I will just say I disagree with your assertion, but agree thats what conservatives, like to "Think" that is what they believe.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 7:27:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic There are enough jokes posting today, DS< I will just say I disagree with your assertion, but agree thats what conservatives, like to "Think" that is what they believe. Was that really that difficult, Lucy? The rest of your statement only points out that there are fewer actual conservatives than those who claim they are conservatives. That, not surprisingly enough, is a claim we agree on.

mnottertail -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 7:40:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: Not that you're really interested in what conservatives are actually objecting to: I object to is stealing from our children to pay for my generation's programs. But conservatives have actually stolen from their children, and not paid for their generations programs, which is what real conservatives object to. Borrow and spend, borrow and spend. And, in case you haven't been reading a lot of posts from Conservatives, many of us aren't exactly supportive of the spending actions of the GOP, either. I have not seen any actual conservatives posting on this board, with the exception of a guy who no longer posts here, and myself. It seems to me that your definition of "conservative" may be lacking, MN. [:D] In what respect? Because current horseshit is not in anywise conservative, does not hold to tradition or cautious changes. If you are a conservative, you are a conservative at the founding of conservatism, not some horseshit dreamed up by St. Wrinklemeat apologists and down the line. Or by the plethora of knaves that vend, and fools that gulp non-traditional conservatism by blogging mendacity and outright hallucinations, found in the likes of Brietbart, Boortz, ZeroHedge, WND, Faux, DailyCaller, DailyMail, Examiner, and so on. Simple, Mitch McConnell, holds up by Americans for 3bill in pork. Conservative? and so on.

Lucylastic -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 7:46:22 AM)
you dont know how hard I had to bite my fingertips not to type more. so yeah, it was hard... [:'(]

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 7:50:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic you dont wanna know ....seriously. I wouldn't have asked, Lucy. Seriously. Some reading for you Desi - http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/10/3/129.full.pdf The systems are very similar both here and in Australia (and apparently in Canada too). I think Australia has a few more private hospitals per capita than we do but the mechanisms for restricting reimbursments and keeping costs down (AKA state/government remuneration limits) are almost the same in both countries. Although a lot of the data is old, the pricipals behind the way it all works isn't.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 7:54:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic you dont know how hard I had to bite my fingertips not to type more. so yeah, it was hard... [:'(] Anything more you had typed, though, wouldn't have answered the question. But, feel free to get whatever off your chest. I do so enjoy a good discussion.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 8:00:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic you dont wanna know ....seriously. I wouldn't have asked, Lucy. Seriously. Some reading for you Desi - http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/10/3/129.full.pdf The systems are very similar both here and in Australia (and apparently in Canada too). I think Australia has a few more private hospitals per capita than we do but the mechanisms for restricting reimbursments and keeping costs down (AKA state/government remuneration limits) are almost the same in both countries. Although a lot of the data is old, the pricipals behind the way it all works isn't. I'm not sure why you made this a response to the post you did, as it didn't follow. Either way, thanks for the addition to my reading list. I'm really going to have to sit down and shorten that list some time (by reading the items). I think I'm up to 6 or 7 now. Weekends, especially ones when I have my boys, are not conducive to keeping up with that stuff. lol

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 8:04:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I'm not sure why you made this a response to the post you did, as it didn't follow. I thought you asked if/how the Australian system is different from the UK one? My bad. lol. Considering our earlier and other thread discussions on the subject, it's a worthwhile read.

mnottertail -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/4/2013 8:05:18 AM)
DS, I generally have anywhere between 5-10 books going at one time. I read before I sleep a great deal. It is a never ending battle, I hear ya.

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