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joether -> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! (11/2/2013 10:10:53 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The audacity of some of the claims made by those critical of Obamacare is staggering.
Healthcare isn't a right - it's a "perk'!
Employers providing insurance was most definitely a perk for the employees.
Actually in many industries it was considered 'expected'. The United States Military provided health, dental and later, mental health coverage. Most white collar companies offered several health plans. Most blue collar jobs that are unionized have medical coverage. Most local, state and federal organizations have medical coverage as standard items for employees. The only people that really could consider this a 'perk' and where it wasn't the norm, was the true small business entities in the USA. Companies with less than forty individuals and more so, those with less than ten. Ironically, those are the same companies were the lost of one person due to a serious health issue from 'lack of health insurance' was most felt. Since the employee was very often not just known by the employer but someone the employer enjoys working with.
And there are tons of stories of employers trying to break their chops to help an employee out that had a medical problem out of 'giving a shit for a friend' and having a devil of a time accomplishing it. The insurance companies before the ACA, could have the employer over a barrel quite literally in trying to obtain a plan. They were very often, very expensive for a small company to obtain. I used to work with the Small Business Administration, DS. It was almost a daily occurrence to have yet one more employer being told by the US Government: "Yes, they CAN screw you and there is nothing anyone can do about it."
So the ACA really was aimed at the small business organizations operating in America. You know, the organizations that account for nearly 80% of US Jobs in America?
quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Lack of healthcare isn't a cause of death, even though the US Institute of Medicine estimates 50,000 Americans dies annually because of 'lack of healthcare"!
How much you want to bet that the US IoM would agree that lack of health care failed to prevent death and that the disease state was the actual cause of death?
First, cite the source of this information directly, Tweakabelle. Second, DS, those that died from the number given would not have died due to disease. That's a false assumption based on no evidence or information. 'Depression' is an disease, yet one can not contract it in all the usual manners of several other kinds of diseases. And just as there are several forms of the disease; how it manifests is equally numerous. Many of this '50,000/year' number I would suspect come from our nation's most neediest and venerable: the homeless.
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Life expectancy isn't a 'medical' issue!
Wrong accusation there. The claim was that life expectancy is a function of several other things, which is, most definitely accurate. The claim was that life expectancy as a metric of health care isn't an honest measuring, which is absolutely true.
Actually the term originates from 'Actuary Accounting'. And who employs Actuary Accounts the most often kids? HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES. 'Life Expectancy' actually *IS* an honest measurement of healthcare. How do you think the insurance company computed how much you the individual should pay for health insurance before the ACA?
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The right to life doesn't include or imply a right to healthcare!
Your rights don't include a mandate for someone to produce and provide something to you. If the right to life included the right to healthcare, then it also includes a right to food, clothing, housing, etc. Does Government provide those for you, too?
Actually the government does pay for this stuff, DS. So by your 'logic' here, if they pay for those items (i.e. food, clothing, housing, etc.) then its 'ok' for them to pay for healthcare as well. Since if you don't have your health, can you really enjoy 'Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness'?
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
"Competition" drives healthcare cost down even though they are twice as high in the only country that operates a competition driven healthcare system!
Market failures will happen when there is no regulation, and because of government regulation. That we operate under a "free Market" system and have regulations preventing some forms of competition and not preventing other forms (monopolies, oligopolies, etc.) certainly does not mean that we have a properly competing Market.
Market failure takes place when the market experiences negative events. Many of those negative events take place due to little or no intrusion by government. Or are you going to argue that the big problem for the 'Dot Com' bust was 'mostly' the government's fault? Companies that fail and blame it on 'government regulations' is really saying 'management's failure to understand the business environment to which they were in'. Blaming the government is like conservatives blaming the President on stuff he had no control over (i.e. like it rains on their wedding day). The best capitalism is 'well regulated capitalism'. Rules by which everyone plays by. There are winners and losers, and things are kept as honest and free as possible. Ever heard of 'Insider Trading'? Without all the rules of 'insider trading' in place right now, how badly could individuals use such knowledge to unbalanced the market, DS?
Try playing the game 'Monopoly' were people ignore the rules at will, and see if the game ever ends with an actual winner. Since the 'well regulated' version has one winner and the rest as losers; "Buy, Sell, and Foreclose on You Friends! And people thought Dungeons & Dragons sent the wrong message!"
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