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RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:18:27 AM   
LadyEternity


Posts: 31
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		My question is still not being answered. You're still focused on name calling and avoidance behavior. I am not going to descend into a mud slinging contest, nor will I further comment on such behavior. Way too busy to get upset over ignorance in a forum anymore. If you care to discuss the actual point I made, I would be willing to continue the conversation. If you are going to continue to call me names, I'm done conversing with you. We are not in grade school. You can believe whatever you wish in order to support your refusal to actually stay on point.

Point. I had 8 bullets that were not normal bullets. They were unfired, making them dangerous.
Point. The police in Will County IL had an obligation to make a report of the bullets, retrieve them, and send them for proper handling or disposal
Point. They did not do as the LAW requires Law Enforcement to do. They refused to do it.
Point. their behavior was irresponsible and leads to dangerous situations
Point. The behavior of the police involved in responding to the assault of a minor female by a male in the original posted article was irresponsible at best. They did not arrest a male for striking a female, causing actual bodily harm.
Point. by not arresting the boy, the police did not discourage abusive behavior perpetrated on a minor by a person who was acting abusively
point. arresting the mother showed that any woman defending her rights, or the rights of another woman, is to be punished while the male abuser goes free
point. this can (and has) created an environment where future abusers do not face consequences.

Point. This irresponsible behavior on the part of those in authority creates problems. creates abusers. creates criminals. And keeps those same people of authority in their jobs.

If the only point of my position you can relate to is that I mistakenly identified a bullet then you are either subconsciously or purposely avoiding my points. If you wish to debate the actual points that were raised by this article and my little story, I'm happy to. But I will no longer engage in any communication with anyone who wants to call me names or insult me.

That's not why we have these forums. I've been as diplomatic as I can be. I don't know you. Based on this one interpersonal interaction I'd have to assume you're a bully and a mean person. However I am intelligent and I know that is false. You are probably a good person with great ideas, nice to kids and old ladies. But I don't make snap judgements on people based on one interaction.

Kind of done here

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:24:52 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		It is so much easier to simply find an excuse to arrest the victim.  
Again you are talking about reinstituting responsibility. 

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyEternity)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:33:24 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The very thing you are deriding ladyeternity for they made Teflon coated hollow point bullets which were made to be armor piercing.  Your first attack on her was the claim that there was no such thing as armor piercing hollow points six of which I owned.

Since I can't find a single manufacturer who ever produced such a beastie, nor have any of the other industry folks I know, again, I wonder if you may be mistaken. Do you recall who manufactured them?



_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:43:59 AM   
LadyEternity


Posts: 31
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It is so much easier to simply find an excuse to arrest the victim.  
Again you are talking about reinstituting responsibility. 



absolutely agree with you. As a society we have a desperate need to re-institute responsibility in those we are giving authority. I remember a time when there was a thing called moral obligation. Medical professionals, law enforcement, those trained to save lives were morally and ethically obligated to stop to render aid, even if they were not on shift. And could be held accountable for not rendering aid. Now the EMT passes by the accident because he's off duty and doesn't want to be sued for the guy he's trying to save dying anyway. When my daughter was jumped at school by bullies she fought back, and I had to fight the district to keep her from being suspended for fighting. Teachers stood by and watched these girls jump her, watched her have to physically defend herself. And said nothing when the principal hauled her to the office as if she were the one in the wrong. We are teaching our next generation to simply lay down and be beaten, verbally, emotionally, and physically. Ethics and morals in medicine and law have been left in the gutter with innocent until proven guilty and the path we are headed down frightens me. Women are being blamed for their own rapes, girls in school are being told they aren't straight enough, or female enough, or fill in the blanks and that the bullying they suffer is their own fault.

In countries that teach children these lessons, they also stone women for being raped. Or they give the woman to their rapist to marry. I refuse to sit idly by and say nothing while people in my beloved country start acting like that.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:44:34 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEternity

My question is still not being answered.

And which question would that be?

quote:

You're still focused on name calling and avoidance behavior.

Please point out a single instance where I called you any names. You might want to check your own replies for that behavior because they are rife with it.


_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to LadyEternity)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:54:43 AM   
LadyEternity


Posts: 31
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		If anyone can point out an instance when I directly insulted any member of this forum or acted in an inappropriate or bullying manner I will instantly apologize. You called me a liar because I am neither an expert in ballistics nor have a perfect memory. I just spent the last paragraph detailing the points of my opinion in this situation and I was very clear that I would be happy to debate/discuss the actual points in that last post. I have not attempted avoidance behavior. I very clearly stated that I miscommunicated the memory and if it'll make you feel better Ill apologize again. I am sorry that I do not know the difference between a hollow point, teflon coated, and rainbow striped bullet. I am sorry that my lack of knowledge and poor memory skills insulted you. I am sorry if you took anything I might have said personally and hope that we can refocus on the actual topic at hand.

Maybe question was the wrong word. I feel that you are still refusing to look at the points I previously mentioned and have an intelligent, open ended discussion about them. Please refer to my last post to stay on topic. If you wish to debate those points, I"m all in. Otherwise, I have nothing further to say here.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 11:23:54 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Teachers stood by and watched these girls jump her, watched her have to physically defend herself. And said nothing when the principal hauled her to the office as if she were the one in the wrong

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My niece was attacked in the middle of a high school hall.
They gave my niece a longer suspension than the attacker.
The principal said defending herself showed a lack of self control which was worse than the attack.
My sister asked him if that meant that when she came over the desk and attacked him that he would be arrested for defending himself. 
The next day my niece was being homeschooled   

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyEternity)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 9:51:59 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Perhaps someone is conflating the KTW scare with the Black Talon scare?
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The very thing you are deriding ladyeternity for they made Teflon coated hollow point bullets which were made to be armor piercing.  Your first attack on her was the claim that there was no such thing as armor piercing hollow points six of which I owned.

Since I can't find a single manufacturer who ever produced such a beastie, nor have any of the other industry folks I know, again, I wonder if you may be mistaken. Do you recall who manufactured them?




(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:05:29 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		The 2nd and 3rd points seem anecdotal. An un-fired bullet by itself is not a prohibited item, the way illicit drugs would be, so enacting a law requiring police to come pick up perfectly legal items seems unusual at best.

The 4th point begs the question 'did this action happen in front of the police, and/or did the striking rise to the level of a felony?'. In many jurisdictions the police would have to see a simple assault take place.

Points 7 and 8 don't logically follow. The statutes against public safety, like firing up in the air generally don't have a self defense claim available.

Note what has already been posted about the police abandoning such warning shots.

And the last point presumes that crime is so rare that the police need to drum up business.... which assumes facts not in evidence.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEternity

My question is still not being answered. You're still focused on name calling and avoidance behavior. I am not going to descend into a mud slinging contest, nor will I further comment on such behavior. Way too busy to get upset over ignorance in a forum anymore. If you care to discuss the actual point I made, I would be willing to continue the conversation. If you are going to continue to call me names, I'm done conversing with you. We are not in grade school. You can believe whatever you wish in order to support your refusal to actually stay on point.

Point. I had 8 bullets that were not normal bullets. They were unfired, making them dangerous.
Point. The police in Will County IL had an obligation to make a report of the bullets, retrieve them, and send them for proper handling or disposal
Point. They did not do as the LAW requires Law Enforcement to do. They refused to do it.
Point. their behavior was irresponsible and leads to dangerous situations
Point. The behavior of the police involved in responding to the assault of a minor female by a male in the original posted article was irresponsible at best. They did not arrest a male for striking a female, causing actual bodily harm.
Point. by not arresting the boy, the police did not discourage abusive behavior perpetrated on a minor by a person who was acting abusively
point. arresting the mother showed that any woman defending her rights, or the rights of another woman, is to be punished while the male abuser goes free
point. this can (and has) created an environment where future abusers do not face consequences.

Point. This irresponsible behavior on the part of those in authority creates problems. creates abusers. creates criminals. And keeps those same people of authority in their jobs.

If the only point of my position you can relate to is that I mistakenly identified a bullet then you are either subconsciously or purposely avoiding my points. If you wish to debate the actual points that were raised by this article and my little story, I'm happy to. But I will no longer engage in any communication with anyone who wants to call me names or insult me.

That's not why we have these forums. I've been as diplomatic as I can be. I don't know you. Based on this one interpersonal interaction I'd have to assume you're a bully and a mean person. However I am intelligent and I know that is false. You are probably a good person with great ideas, nice to kids and old ladies. But I don't make snap judgements on people based on one interaction.

Kind of done here



< Message edited by EdBowie -- 10/30/2013 10:41:51 PM >

(in reply to LadyEternity)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:05:32 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Since I can't find a single manufacturer who ever produced such a beastie, nor have any of the other industry folks I know, again, I wonder if you may be mistaken. Do you recall who manufactured them?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not mistaken but I didn't buy them they were given to me.
Look up black talons

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:08:40 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Lubalox isn't Teflon. But it's OK, everyone is using Glaser Safety Slugs nowadays...
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Since I can't find a single manufacturer who ever produced such a beastie, nor have any of the other industry folks I know, again, I wonder if you may be mistaken. Do you recall who manufactured them?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not mistaken but I didn't buy them they were given to me.
Look up black talons



< Message edited by EdBowie -- 10/30/2013 10:10:18 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:20:21 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		listen again to the first 30 seconds of this vid

I use Hydro shocks

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:22:19 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Lubalox isn't Teflon. But it's OK, everyone is using Glaser Safety Slugs nowadays

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the 90s talons were advertised and attacked as using teflon

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:36:37 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		No. They weren't. Ignorant individuals made the mistake of not knowing the difference, and the media may have used that ignorance to sensationalize, but just because people fall for a hoax, doesn't make it fact.

The hype about Teflon bullets were over the KTW brand, not Black Talon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Lubalox isn't Teflon. But it's OK, everyone is using Glaser Safety Slugs nowadays

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the 90s talons were advertised and attacked as using teflon


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:41:01 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Really? You put J.C. Whitney shock absorbers into a gun? Or did you mean Hydra Shok?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I use Hydro shocks


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 11:58:25 PM   
LadyEternity


Posts: 31
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Ed Thank you!!!! *kiss*

I did mention that some of my points were definitely opinion...at least I thought I did. Maybe I just thought it. I do that sometimes.

I didn't mean to state the last point as fact but as opinion. I really do feel as if by not taking the previously mentioned moral and ethical responsibility to act when crimes are small or "simple" or misdemeanor quality, the authority actually allows for greater crimes to happen later. This does actually have the effect of increasing the length of time people spend in privately owned jails that make money on the head count. Now, I do admit that most of my information comes from hours long conversations on the phone with my brother listening to him vent about everything wrong with the department and how frustrated even cops are with the system. So my knowledge of laws and ordinances are very limited to the town/county in which he works. I called to have the ammo and illicit items picked up because that was how he told me to handle it and be both safe and legal. I tend to trust as a cop he's telling me how to handle something properly but I know every county, city, and township can have different ordinances and laws. In retrospect maybe he was acting on something he thought was a law across the state but was in fact maybe only in his county/town at the time. Again, this was a decade ago.

Your right, possession of unspent rounds is obviously not illegal or no one could own ammo for weapons. But I was unsure whether the ammo was legal or safe and since the house was in a bad place and I had kids I tried to take the course of action related to me by a law enforcement agent I trusted. I acted on the information I had then. Like I was talking about earlier about moral obligation, perhaps the requirements for police to handle unspent ammo changed over the years too.

As for the police needing to witness simple assault, I'm not sure how that works. I've always been led to believe that if someone is bleeding, someone gets arrested for assault. Then again, the entire debate is now hypothetical since it came out that mom was lying.

I don't know much about differentiation between shooting in the air and pointing at someone to scare off an assailant when it comes to feeling that ones life or someone else's could be in danger. To me, I personally couldn't take a life so I would be wading in with a baseball bat rather than bullets. But I do know deep inside that if I felt threatened, I would still attempt a scare tactic before pointing a gun at someone. From all I've been told/taught, you don't point it unless you mean to pull the trigger. I'm not certain I could. I couldn't exchange a life for my own, all though definitely would have to reevaluate that if it were my kids threatened instead of me. Or really anyone's kid.

My biggest complaint/opinion on the original article still stands. I still believe that by not arresting the boy for hitting the girl that boy will likely come away thinking that he can get away with violence towards women. It simply creates an entitlement in his mind that says he has a right to strike a girl and even the cops won't stop him. If someone had at least had a hard, scarey talk with this boy, thrown him in jail overnight, maybe he would have a different path illuminated for him. Maybe not, but isn't it up to those in positions of authority to try? I suppose it's in my opinion that it should be.

Again Ed, thanks! way awesome!


(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/31/2013 10:12:55 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Typo

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/31/2013 10:15:22 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I am not mistaken but I didn't buy them they were given to me.
Look up black talons

As I already mentioned in this post, Winchester Black Talons were never manufactured with a Teflon coating and they were certainly never advertised as such. So yes, you are most definitely mistaken.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/31/2013 10:24:44 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		As I already mentioned in this post, Winchester Black Talons were never manufactured with a Teflon coating and they were certainly never advertised as such. So yes, you are most definitely mistaken.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You clearly missed where Ed Bowie and I got that cleared up.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/31/2013 10:53:16 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

Technical Q: Is the standard advice, if you're going to fire a warning shot, to fire into the ground? I ask because in all the movies it seems they fire into the air.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 120
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