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RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 11:30:45 AM   
BamaD


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He taught me to only fire a warning shot against multiple opponents.
Had it been me in the fictional version of this story there would have been bodies on the ground, and none of them random.
In that version her action was perhaps unwise but justifiable.
In the real version it was neither. 

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 7:10:34 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

He taught me to only fire a warning shot against multiple opponents.

And on that alone, I would ignore whatever advice he gave. If you're genuinely in fear for your safety and you are facing multiple assailants, why would you waste any of your ammunition on a warning shot?

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 7:12:49 PM   
truckinslave


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quote:

If you're genuinely in fear for your safety and you are facing multiple assailants, why would you waste any of your ammunition on a warning shot?


Actually, I have the same q. Bad tactics imo.

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 7:56:07 PM   
LadyEternity


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ok

see, THIS right here is why I haven't made a post in years. This is why this post is my Virgin Mary sighting. I'm gone after this.

The point of my story was not what type of bullets I found in the house. I know the difference between a regular bullet, a fired one, and one that shouldn't be under a rug in a house in the ghetto of joliet. I cannot remember if it was hollow point or had pink and purple rainbows on it. This was 10 years ago. The point of my story was to illustrate that unless the cops gett to point their guns at a baddie with one in their hand, they tend to avoid calls that require paperwork. or work. By law they were supposed to pick up to destroy unfired rounds. And illegal bladed weapons. And drugs. And dirty needles. and refused to.

instead of understanding and debating the actual point of my story, instead we seized on the "oops" of memory. OMG no way, every point in that story is invalid because you can't remember what kind of bullets the drug dealers hid under the carpet. Seriously? The type of ammo DOESN'T matter. what matters is the cops refused to meet an obligation. JUST like they did in the (now debunked) case of the gun-toting mommy.

Done. this is why I left. It was a good sighting though, caught my attention

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 8:08:59 PM   
EdBowie


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Cops quit using warning shots in 1985... wonder why?
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
My dad was a cop he always said if you need to pull a gun on someone you need to shoot them.


So he would have been against her shooting in the air then.


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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 8:10:42 PM   
EdBowie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Once more then I will ignore this subject so it will not move from drift to derailment.
A   you force me to point out that Deathtopixies was right.
B   I never said falling bullets were not dangerous, and in the cases I quoted they acknowledged that bullets fired at an angle are more dangerous than those fired perfectly vertically.
C   The round would have come down some distance from the incident and we do not know but  what there was nothing out there but woods.
D   my objection is your insistence she fired at someone WRONG she fired away from everyone she could see in every version of the story.
E   you may fire in the direction of someone or something but that is not the same as firing at them
F  without regard to the possibility of someone being there would be far more accurate than at, it just doesn't sound as bad
G   I don't believe in warning shots unless there are multiple attackers



The 2nd word in the thread title is 'arrested'. Pointing out that there are real life deaths behind the law in question is far from derailment.

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RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 8:13:16 PM   
EdBowie


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Because they want to give the prosecutor grounds to show that they weren't in actual fear? Hmmmm...
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

He taught me to only fire a warning shot against multiple opponents.

And on that alone, I would ignore whatever advice he gave. If you're genuinely in fear for your safety and you are facing multiple assailants, why would you waste any of your ammunition on a warning shot?


(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 10:56:23 PM   
BamaD


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And on that alone, I would ignore whatever advice he gave. If you're genuinely in fear for your safety and you are facing multiple assailants, why would you waste any of your ammunition on a warning shot?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The second one is warned.
You know while the leader is on the ground gut shot and crying for mommy.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/29/2013 11:07:38 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 10:59:17 PM   
BamaD


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instead of understanding and debating the actual point of my story, instead we seized on the "oops" of memory. OMG no way, every point in that story is invalid because you can't remember what kind of bullets the drug dealers hid under the carpet. Seriously? The type of ammo DOESN'T matter. what matters is the cops refused to meet an obligation. JUST like they did in the (now debunked) case of the gun-toting mommy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You are correct I apologize for getting off point, I was just trying to explain that you did know what you were talking about.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyEternity)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 11:01:19 PM   
BamaD


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Cops quit using warning shots in 1985... wonder why?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My dad quit it in the 60's because they did no good.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 11:41:36 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEternity

instead of understanding and debating the actual point of my story, instead we seized on the "oops" of memory. OMG no way, every point in that story is invalid because you can't remember what kind of bullets the drug dealers hid under the carpet. Seriously? The type of ammo DOESN'T matter. what matters is the cops refused to meet an obligation.

First, they have no such obligation.

Second, why was it necessary to fabricate ANY details to make your point? What was wrong with just using the truth? When people resort to such embellishments, it tends to make others wonder if everything else was made up as well.

If that's enough to make you flounce, well, wow.



_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 12:10:07 AM   
BamaD


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Second, why was it necessary to fabricate ANY details to make your point? What was wrong with just using the truth? When people resort to such embellishments, it tends to make others wonder if everything else was made up as well.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No obligation to confiscate illegal drug or weapons?
You know different cops than I do.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 12:43:44 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No obligation to confiscate illegal drug or weapons?
You know different cops than I do.

No, I think you just have a mistaken impression of what police are obligated to do. They're not delivery boys or garbagemen.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 12:55:51 AM   
BamaD


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No, I think you just have a mistaken impression of what police are obligated to do. They're not delivery boys or garbagemen.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you didn't know about Teflon bullets either and were equally sure of that. 

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 2:14:15 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

He taught me to only fire a warning shot against multiple opponents.

And on that alone, I would ignore whatever advice he gave. If you're genuinely in fear for your safety and you are facing multiple assailants, why would you waste any of your ammunition on a warning shot?


And that's the second thing the NRA video pointed out, not only is firing in the air illegal. It's stupid.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 3:36:33 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Second, why was it necessary to fabricate ANY details to make your point? What was wrong with just using the truth? When people resort to such embellishments, it tends to make others wonder if everything else was made up as well.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No obligation to confiscate illegal drug or weapons?
You know different cops than I do.

For once I agree with you. That is even true of the UK.
Police in most places have an obligation to remove illegal items whatever they are.
It usually comes under public safety laws which they are obliged to uphold.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 7:41:19 AM   
LadyEternity


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stef: I have all ready admitted that I had a memory lapse. The incident occured 10 years ago and I do not have a photogenic memory. I am a writer and a Mistress, not a weapons expert. However, suggesting to someone you don't know that their inability to remember whether a bullet was hollow point or rainbow striped makes them a liar, is rude, and also avoidance behavior. You don't live in my state, county, or city. You are unfamiliar with the ordinances in the town I lived in 10 years ago. Why would you assume that the police were not obligated to retrieve unspent rounds. In fact, in most suburbs of Chicago, police are required to retrieve even shell casings as there could be a crime linking a bullet to a fired weapon used in a crime. It is not legal to flush drugs, legal or illegal, down a toliet and to have police suggest to me to do that with crack was irresponsible at best, illegal at worst. To suggest that I toss dirty needles in the garbage? But instead of debating these reasons I give for supporting my personal belief that police do not uphold laws unless a major crime has been committed, only my mistake in memory is used. Not to defraud or disprove my facts or my opinions, but to try to label me a liar and thus make every point I've made pointless by suggesting I am a liar with nothing poiniant to say? This is a political forum for sharing ideas, not running for office and slandering the opposition.

I am glad for anyone who's memory is so photogenic they can remember perfect details from a decade ago. After car accidents and seizures and PTSD, I do not have a photogenic memory and sometimes I'm lucky I remember what I had for dinner last night. So again, I ask. Whether the bullet was hallow point or rainbow striped, the law said the police were supposed to come and get unfired rounds and write a report. They refused to do so. Just in the (now hypothetical) case of Brianna being slapped around by a boy, the police refused to arrest the person who actually caused bodily harm to another.

THAT was why I came out of a 4 year retirement to comment to one post. Because it infuriates me the way teenage boys are (often) allowed to walk away from a situation that breeds abusers. That boy physically assaulted a girl. He not only walked away, but watched the police arrest a woman trying to defend her from said abuse. The police, the very people who are supposed to protect people from abuse, showed him that he could get away with hurting a female. That it was ok to hurt a woman and not be punished for it. He actually caused bodily harm to another. The mother did not. She was trying to prevent bodily harm to another.

We live in a land where we are guaranteed inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That girl's rights were violated when he placed his hands on her. The mother did not deprive the boy of life or liberty, she did not shoot him. He is not imprisoned. Yet she is the (hypothetical) villain because she picked up a weapon in defense of another persons life, liberty and happiness. (Where i come from those that do that are lauded as heroes. They wear uniforms and go by branches like Army, Navy, Marines. Why is it they are heroes for defending the weak but because I am not sanctioned as a killer by Uncle Sam, I cannot hold up a gun in defense of my child being beaten? And don't anyone dare go off on me as being non-supportive of the military. I have a dozen Marines who will refute that claim)

I was right. I'm not ready for a second coming. *waves at DarkSteven* maybe another time

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 9:49:34 AM   
stef


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Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEternity

I have all ready admitted that I had a memory lapse. The incident occured 10 years ago and I do not have a photogenic memory. I am a writer and a Mistress, not a weapons expert. However, suggesting to someone you don't know that their inability to remember whether a bullet was hollow point or rainbow striped makes them a liar, is rude, and also avoidance behavior.

There is a significant difference between not remembering details and completely fabricating details. If the possibility of being considered a liar does not appeal to you, then perhaps not lying would be a sensible first course of action?



_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:01:51 AM   
stef


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Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

you didn't know about Teflon bullets either and were equally sure of that. 

Would you care to refresh my memory on what was it that I didn't know about "Teflon bullets" again?

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/30/2013 10:15:26 AM   
BamaD


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The very thing you are deriding ladyeternity for they made Teflon coated hollow point bullets which were made to be armor piercing.  Your first attack on her was the claim that there was no such thing as armor piercing hollow points six of which I owned.


Regardless of details she was correct that "ten guys beating up my daughter" will have a much longer response time than "shots fired"

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/30/2013 10:18:02 AM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 100
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