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RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/27/2013 10:45:47 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So had the original story been correct she should have shot one of the boys?


We've been over this:
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
She should have simply brandished her weapon. Clearly she didn't need to shoot her way out of the problem as no one was hit. The most she needed to do was threaten the group of boys with her weapon which is immensely accomplish-able without making the rest of the areas population play russian roulette.


Do I need to use hand puppets to explain it to you?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 5:10:52 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEternity

@Zonie63 I actually moved into a house on a seedy side of a seedy suburb of chicago years and years ago. I had to clean the place so thoroughly that I had to search the carpets for used needles. I found 5 hiding places. Under carpet slats had been lifted up. One hiding place was in a wall in a closet. 3 spots had rock cocaine in little baggies. One had a butterfly knife and one had 8 hollow point armor piercing bullets. I called the police station for pick up of the unfired rounds and the drugs and they ACTUALLY told me just flush the drugs and bring us the knife and bullets. They told me to put the needles in a glass jar like a pickle jar and throw them out. NOT kidding. I ended up taking the dirty needles to the local hospital and asking them to put them in a sharps container. (My hubby at the time worked for a hospital so I wasn't worried about someone thinking they were mine.) But I couldn't' believe they actually refused to come get the stuff. They told me to FLUSH it. *sigh* I ended up having my deputy sherrif brother come out from 2 counties over after work to take the rounds to the station by me. He wasn't happy. He found out that the house I had was renting had been raided over 6 times by cops and DEA and had been a major drug house. *shudder* I own my own home now. I'll never rent again.


Well, maybe it's different in Chicago. Here, there was a local store which was burglarized, in which case it usually takes a couple of hours before the cops will come out and make a report (if they even come out at all; many reports are done over the phone). But when it was reported that a small packet of a white powder (coke) was found on the sidewalk in front, the cops were out there lickety split.


(in reply to LadyEternity)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 9:12:31 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So had the original story been correct she should have shot one of the boys?


We've been over this:
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
She should have simply brandished her weapon. Clearly she didn't need to shoot her way out of the problem as no one was hit. The most she needed to do was threaten the group of boys with her weapon which is immensely accomplish-able without making the rest of the areas population play russian roulette.


Do I need to use hand puppets to explain it to you?


In the original story they were ignoring her previous warning and knew she had a gun, her daughter was facing 10 to 1 odds, her death was a real possibility.
Don't think hand puppets would get it through to you.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 9:21:55 AM   
GotSteel


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Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
She was carrying open that should have been enough of a threat don't you think?

No, I don't think it's fair to assume they noticed the gun in a heated situation. You know the sort of situation where people are generally very much not detail oriented.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
How do you know she didn't do that before firing?

It wasn't mentioned, we're both going off the printed story. If something completely different happened that changes things. However, her shooting at people unrelated to the incident still would not be ok.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Dom ken wouldn't answer this so maybe you will. what if she pointed her gun and they called her bluff?

If she was bluffing, she shouldn't have a gun.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 9:27:50 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Firing a gun into the air like Biden recommended is recklessly disregarding the safety of innocent bystanderds. If one's going to use a deadly weapon they damn well should be held responsible to use it properly.

Anti gun people keep repeating that mantra but not one has said what she should have done.
Not platitudes but specifics.


Here's a video from those Anti gun people the NRA explaining that firing a gun in the air is illegal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq2FoGND6uw


< Message edited by GotSteel -- 10/28/2013 9:32:50 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 9:44:04 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		No, I don't think it's fair to assume they noticed the gun in a heated situation. You know the sort of situation where people are generally very much not detail oriented.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But of course they would have noticed her holding it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 9:47:00 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		It wasn't mentioned, we're both going off the printed story. If something completely different happened that changes things. However, her shooting at people unrelated to the incident still would not be ok.

===================================================================

In neither the original grossly inaccurate version or the later one that I posted did she fire at anyone.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 9:48:42 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		If she was bluffing, she shouldn't have a gun.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My dad was a cop he always said if you need to pull a gun on someone you need to shoot them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 5:01:48 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
In neither the original grossly inaccurate version or the later one that I posted did she fire at anyone.


She fired randomly at the local population that's what shooting into the air is.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 5:05:05 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
She fired randomly at the local population that's what shooting into the air is.


According to the original article we read that was the reason she was arrested:

"You can't fire into the air," Officer Jonathan L. Perok told the Washington Times. "Once something goes up, it comes down. There's the possibility of causing property damage, injuring someone or killing someone. In an apartment complex, the odds of that bullet coming down and striking something are very high."

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 5:09:05 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
She fired randomly at the local population that's what shooting into the air is.


According to the original article we read that was the reason she was arrested:

"You can't fire into the air," Officer Jonathan L. Perok told the Washington Times. "Once something goes up, it comes down. There's the possibility of causing property damage, injuring someone or killing someone. In an apartment complex, the odds of that bullet coming down and striking something are very high."

AT key word toward you said she fired at a random person, she fired away from everyone she could see.

Perok is a fool there is no way the bullet would come down in the complex.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 6:15:44 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		'No way' as in 'utterly impossible according to all known laws of physics'? Or as in 'No way dude'?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
She fired randomly at the local population that's what shooting into the air is.


According to the original article we read that was the reason she was arrested:

"You can't fire into the air," Officer Jonathan L. Perok told the Washington Times. "Once something goes up, it comes down. There's the possibility of causing property damage, injuring someone or killing someone. In an apartment complex, the odds of that bullet coming down and striking something are very high."

AT key word toward you said she fired at a random person, she fired away from everyone she could see.

Perok is a fool there is no way the bullet would come down in the complex.



(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 6:25:07 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		'No way' as in 'utterly impossible according to all known laws of physics'? Or as in 'No way dude'?

Myth Busters
When they used a vice to fire perfectly perpendicular the rounds, a 9mm and a 30-06 landed nearly a quarter mile away angle would increase this distance.
They also demonstrated that the more perfectly perpendicular the round is fired the less likely it is to cause serious harm upon landing.
People half a mile to a mile away were in more danger, if there were people their.
My main problem is his insistence that she fired at someone.
She fired in a general direction where someone may or may not have been.
Let it be noted that I do not believe in warning shots for many reasons but I also do not believe in hyperbole.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/28/2013 6:30:00 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 6:26:10 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline 		without any links or statistics to back this up I would like to point out that shooting in the air is far less likely to kill someone than shooting directly at them. Feel free to prove me wrong with a stat or two or......move the fucking thread on

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/28/2013 6:32:45 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

without any links or statistics to back this up I would like to point out that shooting in the air is far less likely to kill someone than shooting directly at them. Feel free to prove me wrong with a stat or two or......move the fucking thread on

A less likely to hit someone
B lower velocity upon striking
C you are absolutely correct

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 4:48:47 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		False dichotomy fallacy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

without any links or statistics to back this up I would like to point out that shooting in the air is far less likely to kill someone than shooting directly at them. Feel free to prove me wrong with a stat or two or......move the fucking thread on


(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 4:57:52 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		OK, I'll see your Mythbusters and raise you 2 'dead babies'...
http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/08/virginia_boy_7_dies_from_stray.html

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/01/04/11/37/us-girl-10-killed-by-falling-bullet-on-new-years

There is no legal requirement that the shooter know for a fact exactly which person they are going to hit. Same a shooting out a car window... ignorance of where the bullet ends up isn't a defense.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

'No way' as in 'utterly impossible according to all known laws of physics'? Or as in 'No way dude'?

Myth Busters
When they used a vice to fire perfectly perpendicular the rounds, a 9mm and a 30-06 landed nearly a quarter mile away angle would increase this distance.
They also demonstrated that the more perfectly perpendicular the round is fired the less likely it is to cause serious harm upon landing.
People half a mile to a mile away were in more danger, if there were people their.
My main problem is his insistence that she fired at someone.
She fired in a general direction where someone may or may not have been.
Let it be noted that I do not believe in warning shots for many reasons but I also do not believe in hyperbole.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 7:28:23 AM   
truckinslave


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Hollowpoint ammo is designed to expand when it hits a sufficiently hard target (i.e. meat). The bullet is usually designed to remain in one piece and expand from the front to the back, ultimately becoming a sort of mushroom shape. This is the kind of ammo against which "bullet-proof" vests are most effective.
"Hollowpoint teflon-coated armor-piercing" bullets actually were made, and were in fact quite effective against the body armor of their day, but they would have been more accurately named "hollowtube" than "hollowpoint". They were just that: a teflon-coated hollow tube backed by a sort of sabot. After leaving the barrel they became a thin-walled tube with a sharpened front edge.
They undoubtedly had a tremendous capacity to veer off-target, but at typical "self-defense" ranges (10 feet or less, say) they were truly nasty shit.


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 8:51:14 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		There is no legal requirement that the shooter know for a fact exactly which person they are going to hit. Same a shooting out a car window... ignorance of where the bullet ends up isn't a defense

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once more then I will ignore this subject so it will not move from drift to derailment.
A   you force me to point out that Deathtopixies was right.
B   I never said falling bullets were not dangerous, and in the cases I quoted they acknowledged that bullets fired at an angle are more dangerous than those fired perfectly vertically.
C   The round would have come down some distance from the incident and we do not know but  what there was nothing out there but woods.
D   my objection is your insistence she fired at someone WRONG she fired away from everyone she could see in every version of the story.
E   you may fire in the direction of someone or something but that is not the same as firing at them
F  without regard to the possibility of someone being there would be far more accurate than at, it just doesn't sound as bad
G   I don't believe in warning shots unless there are multiple attackers

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/29/2013 9:10:32 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: mother arrested for protecting daughter - 10/29/2013 11:19:59 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
My dad was a cop he always said if you need to pull a gun on someone you need to shoot them.


So he would have been against her shooting in the air then.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 80
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