Ilyrium
Posts: 189
Joined: 10/2/2013
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ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I have to say I give you credit for replying to everyone.
Almost everyone was worth responding to!
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ORIGINAL: sexyred1
your boss is correct. Some women seek attention and choose inappropriate venues
There's absolutely no way she's not seeking attention. And, just as absolutely, she knew what she was wearing in the morning. So, it's very hard to escape the conclusion "she just wants to be looked at" in a sexual way.
However, ... she's not that way in person. Which ... I must explain, is what confuses the hell out of me.
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ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Sweet and sexy are not mutually exclusive.
This is true. Thinking more why I'm so confused about it, maybe it's more that what HER BOSS said (word was, around the cooler), which was that she could wear what she wanted, but, she didn't HAVE TO wear sexy clothes, so, revealing that everyone was talking about her.
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ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I know a really primly dressed woman whom no one suspects is a total slut, picking guys up all the time.
She would likely fool me, as I often miss social cues.
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ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
I'm one of those many sexually fulfilled women who happens to not like oral sex.
I admit, I'm edified.
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ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
The thought of someone being down there for over an hour spelling out a memorized speech is even more horrifying.
Think of it as a technique of lingual peroration. I came up with that technique when a girlfriend in college once said I was lapping her like a spasmodic dog, meaning I wasn't changing things up. Spelling out letters changes the direction and depth of every single stroke in subtle ways, and, of course, SHE doesn't know the technique. She only knows what she feels.
But, if I ever thought she didn't enjoy every moment of it, I would certainly stop.
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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
both unwanted, which is the point I was making.
That statement is what confuses me, as a scientist. What I find hard to get in the social cueing system, is how a woman can dress with a one-inch skirt, or a 25-inch slit in a 30-inch skirt or a blouse that is see through with no bra, or a shirt that's open to the xiphoid process, etc., and possibly still be communicating that she doesn't want to be looked at?
From a logical perspective (which is the only way I can make sense of things), it makes absolutely no sense (to me). Clearly I'm wrong. But, just as clearly, it's a confusing set of mixed signals that must have some secret decoder ring that I haven't found to date.
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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
the look or double look is just as bad as a longer look - they're both labelling and acknowledging me by my sex
I must ask you what you're wearing when this double look bothers you. For me, as a stranger, you would likely not even get a single look were you to be dressed in non-revealing clothes. "There's nothing here, move on", is the signal I would perceive from you. (NOTE: I'm assuming you're a stranger on the street for this thought experiment.)
Now, if you were wearing a skirt with a long slit, all of a sudden the 'chance' of seeing more skin reveals itself, and, suddenly, you're one more iota "interesting". At that point, I'd begin to notice you. But, my interest would wane, if, for example, the slit wasn't so long as to reveal all that much.
Now, let's say the slit goes almost up to your waist. Now you're suddenly much more interesting. And, if you're wiggling your butt, with a blouse that has a chance of showing nipple, at THAT point, I'm thinking those ill-conceived licentious thoughts.
So, back to understanding your thought process. What were you wearing when you received those unwanted double looks?
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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
Some women find an 'appreciative glance' to be offputting and unwanted.
I think, for that reason, we men try to be discreet. Well, there are the catcalls from the construction crew when a "skirt" walk by on the street, but, I think most men have never given a wolf whistle to a complete stranger.
Certainly I have never done so (although, for my friends, as a friendly way of appreciation for those I know extremely well, e.g., I've had my hands on their naughty parts in the past), I've got a pretty melodic whistle of appreciation which I had practiced, for some odd reason, as a teen after watching the sailors do it in WWII movies.
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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
And I honestly believe it's this culture of 'women like being noticed for their looks' that leads into the situation the OP is describing.
I do understand your statement. But I'm confused by the actions of women, strangers we're talking about, who dress to show so much skin that there's a chance of seeing something good.
What goes through my logical mind is, "she must WANT us to look", otherwise, why does she show so much skin? Does she not know what she put on in the morning? Is she that clueless? Naaaah. Can't be. So, the only logical conclusion is that she WANTS to be looked at. There is no other logical conclusion available.
Is there any OTHER logical conclusion that one could reasonably expect?
Note: The fact that it seems to be illogical, is what confuses me. What I've heard, for the most part, is that women do NOT appreciate the second look, or the "attention" we so euphemistically call it.
So, if the attention is unwarranted and unwanted, then why do (some) women wear short skirts, see-through tops, high-slit skirts, etc. For that matter, whey did Vina, our lovely sweet admin, have a boob job and then show it off to anyone who had 20:20 vision?
It's all so confusing.
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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
Why would we want any sort of attention from men we're not interested in, it's just weird!
This statement, in and of itself, makes total sense. I don't ask for attention from anyone, man or woman, when I'm on the street. But then, I'm not showing my crotch to anyone who can see, and I'm not unbuttoning my shirt to the fifth button, and I'm not wearing pants that look spray-painted on, and I'm not wearing jewelry that flashes in the sunlight, and I'm not painting my lips bright red to make them stand out (for some reason that I never understood), and I'm not ... ... ... ...
So, what confuses me to no end, is that if a woman doesn't want attention from the men she isn't interested in, how does she control that when she is walking around with her shirt unbuttoned more than half way down the front?
How does a women get the attention from the men she wants, and, at the same time, not get attention from those she doesn't want? I don't see how it can be pulled off successfully?>
Note: I manage not to get any attention from both the women I want and those that I don't want. I get my attention by having an expensive vehicle, a house with acres of land in Silicon Valley, a pool to die for, etc. So, I get my attention AFTER I drive her home - but - certainly not by my clothes. (I dress like your typical Silicon Valley mid-level management, which is to say not all that well.) It's easy to control my attention needs, because I get no attention by what I look like, only by what I have (which, I understand, is just as superficial as what women wear, but, both work to some degree, if the goal is attention).
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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
I don't give 'appreciative looks' to grannies, or children, or random men in shops - why on earth would I want someone to give 'appreciative looks' to me?
The whole kid thing is out of the question, as is someone dressed like a granny typically would. But, fi that granny was, for whatever reason, wearing a short skirt with that nylon black band at the top showing white thigh just above, I "might" look! :) (Maybe not, though. Depends on the granny, as some things, like your Mom and you Sis and your relatives are just out of the picture from the get go.
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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
he's not appreciating that I'm a good person or a hard worker or a great friend - he's noticing that I have tits and ass - that's not appreciative, that's objectifying.
We're talking strangers here, so, whether you are a hard worker or a great friend couldn't possibly be ascertained at this stage of the game.
Actually, come to think about it, since I paid for an expensive vehicle, partly to get attention from women, I guess the fact I'm a hard worker, attentive to details, "might" be telegraphed by the choice of vehicles and home location. In my town (I don't know what I put in my profile, but, it's very high end Silicon Valley), there can't be a house less than a million or two. My point isn't bragging. It's that I wouldn't THINK of getting attention by wearing even expensive clothes to get attention, but, I would think of getting attention by doing a good job at what I do, owning and maintaining myself a powerful car and motorcycle & buying a house with a huge pool and acres of privacy in a high-end neighborhood.
Is it shallow? Yes. Do I spend most of my time working to pay for it all, Yes. (My property taxes alone are more than I get for rent from my rental properties, for example.)
Thinking about this, the attention I get is only AFTER someone knows me, whereas this thread was meant to cover attention to someone BEFORE they are known, so, the only things visible are their clothes and perhaps their vehicle.
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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
He looks because he thinks it's okay because women want him to look.
I must admit, if I am to tell the truth, this is very true.
That I read here, and inherently must know deep inside, that some women must NOT want to be looked at, it confuses me to no end that they dress showing vastly more skin than men do in the same situation.
When I go off-trail hiking, which is very often, the women NEVER dress provocatively. Since we're an off-trail group, we often have to rope ourselves up cliffs, climb ledges, hang onto bushes in the chaparral, push someone up by the butt, pull them up with an arm lock, etc., and those sexual thoughts NEVER come to mind.
But, then again, we're wearing long sleeves and pants (mostly for the poison oak) and harnesses with rescue-eights and carabiners dangling on the loops, so, nobody is dressed to show ANY skin, other than hands, neck, and face.
If any woman came on these off-trail hikes wearing hotpants and a see-through blouse, I would likely change that statement above, but, it just never happens.
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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
Would it not be easier to spread that message - don't look at all?
I get the message "don't look at all" when/if a woman is dressed like I am, which is to say, with loose clothes that hide my body more so than show it.
What confuses me, is that some women actually wear those bras that have padding on the downside and elastic to push the rest onto the upside, such that they purposefully accentuate their breast size by an order of magnitude, and, at the very same time, they might, perhaps, wear a neckline that shows so much cleavage that one has to wonder what they WANT men to think.
I mean, from a logical perspective, before this thread anyway, I couldn't imagine any other scenario than her screaming out "MEN ... STRANGERS ALL ... please LOOK at my breasts!". "Here they are!" "I've even unbuttoned my blouse half-way down my chest, just so that you can SEE them", and "I've enhanced them, so that they look good to you"!
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ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
it's this complete lack of separation between him and the object of his lust that makes the whole thing so 'rapey' -- and thus, so creepy.
While we're talking strangers here, from this thread, I realize it's clearly creepy and rapey to look at a woman provocatively dressed (and to think racy thoughts).
So, I will try to be more aware of that, next time I see someone with the chance of looking up her dress to see if she's wearing panties or not.
However, it won't be easy if she's wearing such a short skirt that there is a 50:50 chance of figuring that out for sure; so, I may have to slap myself a few times, before I get into the habit of NOT looking.
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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Sometimes a double-take is unavoidable if you stand out from the crowd for whatever reason.
I will stop repeating that I'm ONLY talking about the women who show enough chance at skin to be interesting to look at. All the rest are as ignored as the bathroom wall. You see it, but, you don't even think about it.
Again, we're not talking about people we know. We're talking about strangers whom we will likely never know.
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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Perhaps you should follow the muslim way and wear a buerqa to avoid all attention.
THAT would work! :)
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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
the words "nipple" and "crotch" have been used
I understand. My vocabulary isn't as descriptive as my mind.
What I'm talking about here are thoughts that race involuntarily through my mind when I have a better-than-even chance of seeing so far up a woman's skirt, that it triggers my erotic thoughts. For example, a woman's knees just aren't interesting. Neither is the long thigh. The short thigh just starts to become interesting at the thickest whitest softest warmest part, and, well, a woman's crotch is the pièce de ré·sis·tance (as is the tip of a breast, both of which are temples of erotic thought).
Anything less is positively boring.
There are so very many women out there, that to give attention to them all would consume my energies, so, my logical mind thinks, the only strangers worth looking at are those who keep my attention by supplying some skin.Tit for tat. I give attention. She gives skin.
She doesn't give skin? Then I don't even notice her. Quid pro quo.
Skin ... for attention.
My problem, of course, is that this unseen "bargain" is apparently wrong. Apparently women give plenty of skin, but, they aren't actually asking for just as much attention.
It's these mixed signals that confuse me to no end.
My mind says "She is showing more skin than any other woman here, so, she's the one to look at ... but oh ... there's no chance of seeing the temples? Well, then I have more important things to do. Oh, that one, over there, the one sitting down with her bare almost to her waist, now SHE is showing skin ... so I'll look there and give HER my attention. Otherwise, why would she be showing so much skin in the first place. Did she not know what she was putting on in the morning?
I agree. I'm conflicted.
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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
if you are looking at a woman long enough to start thinking about what you'd like to do with your mouth, it's time to look away and redirect your mind to something else
I agree, that is the general consensus.
Mea culpa.
It would be so easy though, if women helped out by not wearing loose t-shirts with the arm holes cut off and no bra, such that every inch of their enticingly soft breasts were visible when I'm at the grocery store just trying to buy a cold drink of Michele Obama's water! :)
< Message edited by Ilyrium -- 10/29/2013 7:29:17 AM >
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RE: How do men and women treat the same situation (dife... - 
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For the love of God, please STFU, OP! You don't need to justify every single one of your nasty thought processes. 
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