Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: The Dark Side


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: The Dark Side Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 7:50:09 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, that's a good point, cloudboy (I think). That is the (underlying) issue here, isn't it?

I am hoping there are a lot of folks able to judge correctly whether their Dominant is in a position to really know how far they can (and should or should not) push someone in that regard. Hope some don't guess wrong...I know that's where trust comes in - but I still hope some don't guess wrong (some obviously do guess wrong).

It is encouraging to hear from some Doms (I've read from them on other threads)who say they don't play with subs who say things like: "I have no limits" without first having established whether they are in fact, pretty emotionally stable. I think the sub has a responsibility too (to try to evaluate whether a Dom is stable).

The problem comes in (I think) where some people have a pretty poor point of reference as far as what actually constitutes emotional stability (or maturity) in someone else I guess. Plus, sometimes if someone is really, really attracted to someone else (for whatever reason), I think they can sometimes tend to overlook things that maybe otherwise would be a "red flag." 
- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/3/2006 8:05:41 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 7:52:46 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Fast reply.

If someone is foolish enough to approach me and say that they have no limits-I simply tell them to stop breathing.

Once they finish gasping for air, I continue with...."Very well then,we have established that you do have a limit, let's see if MY limits match the rest of the ones you don't yet admit to having."

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 8:02:04 AM   
lanwolf


Posts: 78
Joined: 10/31/2005
Status: offline 		Ok as this strikes close to home for me i will jump in
First- i have few limits, no kids, no animals, no scat and rainbow play, no perminant damage (cutting off parts i might need later) and no play that will cause medical issues. Anything else is fair game and i am open to try at least once. Seeing how this type of activite, envolving kids, would cause me alot of mental issues i would have to count that as first off no kids and second perminant damage. She had a choice, she knew what was right and wrong, she had no right hurting her son and she had alot of suport to go to if she felt lost and did not know what to do.
 
Second- i know she had that suport because i know her and have helped her alot in the past. There were many in the City we live in that she could have turned to and gotten help from and she was not alone would not have had to face things alone and would have had all the help and suport she needed if she had said no.
 
If i had known this was going on i would have been talking to her and to the police as well and ending this horific act. As it turned out another in the comunity found out and did just that, they were right in there actions and should be treated as such. As i stated above this was her son, she knew it was wrong that it would cause problems for her son not just now but latter in his life yet she chose to do this act. No matter the reasons she had the choice to say no and instead did as she was told and is just as guilty as the one that told her to do it.

< Message edited by lanwolf -- 7/3/2006 8:03:35 AM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 8:04:16 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		To those who seem to automatically assume that "No Limits" means that something bad will be demanded, I have one thing to say.....get real!!

Yes, bad shit happens, it happens all the time, to good people, and to bad. The woman made a choice, she chose to sexually molest her unmentionable. The man she was dealing with is obviously some sort of pedophile/predator. So here we have two unbalanced people going into territory that we all generally agree was wrong. That does not, in my mind at least, mean that the concept of "no limits" is the problem...the problem was two people who hadn't the moral or ethical ability to distinguish right from wrong.

He should not have asked for it, and she should not have given it. But they both did. That is WRONG, but to use thier actions as a rational to debunk all "no limit" relationships is foolish.


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 8:31:45 AM   
Tashacurly


Posts: 33
Joined: 6/15/2006
Status: offline 		Hmm...I don't honestly know how I feel about "no limit" relationships. As, I'm not currently in one, yes, I'm a slave....but I'm a person who has morals first, therefor I have limits to which my Lord and Master do respect, as long as I'm respectful in return.
As far as this woman's relationship goes....I have NO understanding of how someone can submit to someone they don't honestly know. Yeah, yeah...folk will say you can truly know someone online...and I'm not gonna argue with them...but in MY opinion, it's not possible. I've know wayyyyy too many people who *thought* they fully knew someone online, only to later figure out that the person they were madly in love with, was a work of fiction to some degree or another. Mind you...I found my Master online.....indeed I did.....but we became friends or *chat buddies*..and never had anything serious nor romantic until we had met face to face, and got to know each other in "real life".
With that said...I cannot understand for the life of me, why this woman would feel she *had* to do what this figure online said to. I mean, he was nothing more that a few words typed on a screen, you know? No human contact, he couldn't *force* her to do anything thing she wasn't already *willing* to do, you know?
I am a survivor of sexual abuse. I have heard every excuse from my violater as to why he did what he did....ranging from "It was the drugs...", to he had mental issues that kept him from not being able to stop such abusive behavoir. In my opinion, this is quite similar to this woman saying SHE was the abused one, that she was ordered to do this act...and it wasn't her fault....sooo, with that said, what is my opinion? That it is pure BULLSHIT. Yes, this so called Dom should be charged, as he recieved and asked for said child porn....but she REALLY shoudl be punished, because I see her as just as much a preditor and pedofile as this "Dom" was/is. There is no excuse for this behavior. If it were true that simply being abused lead you to do such acts against your will...how is it, that I...who was abused most of my life, have *never* abused another? Nor have many of the folk I know from my support groups for abuse servivors? I'm sick and tired of hearing other people whine about how bad their lives were (these pedofiles and abusers), without honestly caring about their victims. Just my opinion on the matter.

Tasha

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 9:06:29 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

To those who seem to automatically assume that "No Limits" means that something bad will be demanded, I have one thing to say.....get real!!

Yes, bad shit happens, it happens all the time, to good people, and to bad. The woman made a choice, she chose to sexually molest her unmentionable. The man she was dealing with is obviously some sort of pedophile/predator. So here we have two unbalanced people going into territory that we all generally agree was wrong. That does not, in my mind at least, mean that the concept of "no limits" is the problem...the problem was two people who hadn't the moral or ethical ability to distinguish right from wrong.

He should not have asked for it, and she should not have given it. But they both did. That is WRONG, but to use thier actions as a rational to debunk all "no limit" relationships is foolish.



Quite. Let's face it....It's not the scene .......it's the people involved and the combination of people involved.

Pinning it, however lightly, on the * no limits* expressions of people that DO have a rational thought in their head, isn't really an equation that I can relate to.

agirl




(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 9:10:07 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		She was weak and a fool, and her son suffered for it. People like this need to be put out of their misery before they cast it onto others.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 9:13:55 AM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline 		I have been chewing on this since it was posted. I wanted to think about it long and hard as opposed to just reacting. I will say in my opinion they are both guilty as hell and deserve what they get. Her unmentionable should hold precedence over all else. An unmentionable is a gift and a very precious one at that.
 
I think we all have a reasonable expectation in a M/s relationship. So naturally I would assume that “limits” are set in regards to BDSM and mainstream life.  If you don’t want to get spanked while you have daisies in your mouth that is okay. When I consider law and humanity in general I would like to think that crime and inhumane acts would be a natural limit and I would expect a sub/slave to have the same expectation.
 
I have unmentionables and do not disclose them to the general forum (shot that foot right off) for the simple fact that this is a very anonymous medium and you have no idea who is really behind that nic. I would rather mail and chat to get to know someone a little better before I start introducing him or her to my personal life. She is here to understand my kink and how it works with her or doesn’t work for her. If she says yup yup yup we are clicking then we can elaborate on my personal life. However the most important thing I am trying to understand is how she feels about unmentionables. I will do a little tango to get to that, but who wouldn’t? I am looking to bring someone into my life that will become a part of my life and my family’s life from now on. Before I had unmentionables they could come and go, the screening process was much more lax, however it is not just my emotional wellbeing that is at stake now. I had to send my last girl away because she didn’t interact with the unmentionables. She was well aware before she came and I gave her years to adapt. When it became clear she wasn’t interested in forming a relationship with them and they finally gave up attempting to bond with her, it was time for her to go. So now the screening process is even more stringent.
 
I am not looking for a doormat nor am I looking for someone who will see my unmentionables as just “my” unmentionables. That is one of my reasonable expectations. I also have a reasonable expectation that she we eventually have unmentionables to add to the brood. Nevertheless I have to insure that her birthing an unmentionable does not change how she feels about the others. She needs to accept them as her own and nothing should ever change that.
 
I hear a lot of “slaves have no rights” which is fine if you feel that way and if you are a slave that wants to live that way. However I am not that Master and wont ever be. I feel common sense should prevail and I will set the standard in the relationship. If I want a liar I will be a liar, if I want a slob I will be a slob, if I want infidelity I will commit infidelity. Again it is a reasonable expectation. I will not put a slave in harms way nor will I task her to something I am not willing to do myself. When I consider a Master tasking a slave to perform a crime it appalls me to think that such a miscreant can themselves a Master.
 
KoM it is a very good post you made and I think it was very healthy for the community to read it and add their views. More importantly I hope that all the sub/slaves view this as a learning experience and consider what a reasonable expectation is.
 
Respectively

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 9:26:52 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		The woman in the news story is weak.  She's not submissive, she's desperate for attention.  So much so that she abused her son so she wouldn't lose the attention she was receiving from a predator taking advantage of her and her child.

Her love of self surpassed her love of child and then, instead of taking responsibility for her actions, she's said the devil (her online master) made her do it.

She deserves punishment, her child deserves to be placed with relatives or others that will care for him properly.  The online master deserves equal punishment, for the role he played in the abuse of the child.

What can any of us do about it?  Not a damn thing.  We're damned if we tell someone that they are practicing their kink wrong.  Everything is hunky dory because your kink is not my kink right up until the moment someone gets hurt.  In this case, an innocent.  So we've all learned to play nice and not be judgmental, when perhaps, we really should be judgmental.  The problem with that is the  judgments would all be different.

Can we test people before they are allowed a computer and an internet connection? No, (although there are days I wish we could!). 

I feel sorry for the woman, I feel even sorrier for the kid.  Even if she'd talked with someone, (and who says she didn't), she probably could not have been convinced that "no limits" means that indeed, there are limits.

It's a very sad situation, but I honestly can't see how things like this can be prevented.







_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 9:41:32 AM   
onyurknees


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

The woman in the news story is weak.  She's not submissive, she's desperate for attention.  So much so that she abused her son so she wouldn't lose the attention she was receiving from a predator taking advantage of her and her child.

Her love of self surpassed her love of child and then, instead of taking responsibility for her actions, she's said the devil (her online master) made her do it.

She deserves punishment, her child deserves to be placed with relatives or others that will care for him properly.  The online master deserves equal punishment, for the role he played in the abuse of the child.

What can any of us do about it?  Not a damn thing.  We're damned if we tell someone that they are practicing their kink wrong.  Everything is hunky dory because your kink is not my kink right up until the moment someone gets hurt.  In this case, an innocent.  So we've all learned to play nice and not be judgmental, when perhaps, we really should be judgmental.  The problem with that is the  judgments would all be different.

Can we test people before they are allowed a computer and an internet connection? No, (although there are days I wish we could!). 

I feel sorry for the woman, I feel even sorrier for the kid.  Even if she'd talked with someone, (and who says she didn't), she probably could not have been convinced that "no limits" means that indeed, there are limits.

It's a very sad situation, but I honestly can't see how things like this can be prevented.



You and several others have made very good points about this whole case which, in reality, has nothing to do with bdsm as practiced by any of the sane folk in any kink community I have ever heard about.
This so-called master is a weak, sick, pervert and all stops should come out to ensure that he meets with a strong punishment in a court of law.
This so-called mother is way too stupid to be allowed to have her child with her any longer. She too needs to face the courts for the evil she did.
On some level, I'm sure we can find that both these perpetrators had evil done to them as well at some point but it's time that adults take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming stupidity and evil on others. Most of us have suffered at the hands of others at some time in our lives but it is up to us what reponse we make.
And for those of us in the bdsm community, such things need to stand as a (yet another!) warning about the dangers of online play and that one needs to always remember that in the end this is only letters on a computer screen and each of us is still the one responsible for our own actions.

_____________________________

All men are animals. Some just make better pets than others.

Put on your 'big girl' panties and just deal with it!

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 9:42:34 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
That has nothing to do with BDSM.  It is abuse.
There is a difference between her claim of no limits and no limit submission.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 3:16:21 PM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

So the question......  Does "No Limits" mean NO Limits... Does "Do Anything" mean ANYTHING"?

Since I , myself, have limits on what I will and will not do, you can bet that my girls have limits also. Now before anyone brings up the 'my limits are Master's limits' analogy, let me say that my girls will NOT do some things that I would like to do. However, to use the 'I am Master you will do what I wish' on them, is in violation of the promises I made to them at the start of our relationship.

Each one of us are responsible for our own actions; and each one of us must one day pay the price for the wrong actions. The only exception I would put on this are those that are mentally impaired in such a way that they truly can not comprehend right and wrong.

_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 3:31:46 PM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

None of us had it perfect. There are no non-dysfunctional families....just varying degrees of dysfunction. That doesn't give us the "right" to use that dysfunction as a means of absolution of responsibility of our own transgressions.

Very well stated Young Lady, my compliments.

_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 3:32:08 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

To those who seem to automatically assume that "No Limits" means that something bad will be demanded, I have one thing to say.....get real!!

Yes, bad shit happens, it happens all the time, to good people, and to bad. The woman made a choice, she chose to sexually molest her unmentionable. The man she was dealing with is obviously some sort of pedophile/predator. So here we have two unbalanced people going into territory that we all generally agree was wrong. That does not, in my mind at least, mean that the concept of "no limits" is the problem...the problem was two people who hadn't the moral or ethical ability to distinguish right from wrong.

He should not have asked for it, and she should not have given it. But they both did. That is WRONG, but to use thier actions as a rational to debunk all "no limit" relationships is foolish.

I agree Arpig. It wasn't the type of relationship that caused the abuse to happen, it was the people in it. The abuse would've happened wheather they called it a 'no-limits' M/s, a D/s, or vanilla relationship.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 4:01:56 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Fast reply

Her Guilty
It wasn't my fault it was Moms-Dads-Dr's-Policeman-Mailman-Storeclerk-Master-Mistress- Sister-Guy on the corner- Lady in the bar -Husband-Wife-Bank-Brother-Socitey-Video games- Heavy metal music- Tv- Movies ---yadda yadda yadda
Time to end  ALL the Excuse's

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 4:09:06 PM   
scratchingpost


Posts: 231
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Fast reply.

If someone is foolish enough to approach me and say that they have no limits-I simply tell them to stop breathing.

Once they finish gasping for air, I continue with...."Very well then,we have established that you do have a limit, let's see if MY limits match the rest of the ones you don't yet admit to having."

smiles very good answer....When I served as slave I had few limits 5 to be exact No drugs, diseases, dead/dying things, beastiality, pedophelia....As top I have more limits of things I will choose to not do or ever do again.  I believe (or at least hope) that most of  those who say they do not have limits mean few limits but are inserting the wrong word. I further hope that case is the exception to this rule.

_____________________________

be safe and smile
purrrs kitty
(=^.^=)
www.misskittys-scratchingpost.com

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 4:58:04 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		KoM... I did as you asked... I read the link... before I finished your post...and read rest of thread...my heart goes out to the little one that got pulled into the hell that happened.

As for the link:

The main thing that sticks in my head... that I read in that article.... she resisted at first. So she knew she was wrong for doing what she did. So there for I will not show no sympathy for her at all. As far as this man... well... there are idiots all about... male and or female. And from what I am gathering from the article.... this was all on line. And yes... could of ended with clicking the litle red X at the top of the page. Bottom line.... the whole situation was fucked up.

As for the rest of your post:

I do not have the answers. Nor will I try to pretend I do. I think your post in itself... if anything... will help SOME understand what they could be getting into. But only IF they read it...and use common sense... hense though we fall into the other threads on here. You know the ones... common sense... taking control ..... limits vs no limits... sub vs slave... who's responsible for what.  Your post could some up alot of those threads... if we all thought the same way. Unfortuately for some..and greatful for more... that we don't.

The contents of the article is one of the reasons I can't come out to my parents and siblings. Because we were always told ... "those people" are freaks... they're dangerous.... oh and my favorites... they're idiots.... who in their right mind would allow another to do such things? .............. When dealing with others non understanding... stereo typing... it's hard to get any points across to get acception. But we do still try.  We can only hope sometimes... to someone... things sink in.. No matter if trying to get others to understand we're not freaks...not all dangerous...or trying to get someone to understand... being submissive.. doesn't mean being stupid... and being dominant.. doesn't mean being stupid either....

Thank you for the article... harsh as it was.... it was an eye opener....and hope someone was reached by it...in a good manner...


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to scratchingpost)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 5:22:27 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		I really appreciate this thread because it helped me see how far I've come in the last 3-4 years. There was a time when I would have said I had no limits. I've learned to say that I don't have enough experience to know what my limits are and choose to play only with those I can trust not to take me too far, too fast.

It also helped me realize that even when I was doing really stupid things I had enough sense not to ever endanger my unmentionables. I was assaulted by a "dom" for refusing to allow him to prostitute them, though frankly, they are both taller and tougher than he as well as adults so he would have had a HUGE problem if he'd tried to enforce that! LOL

It also showed me just how lucky I was to meet some very good, caring on-line Dom/mes who helped me realize that a lot of the people I was connecting with were either abusers or not appropriate for me....and pushed me until I reluctantly got involved in my local community.

In some ways I wish I had found a Dom who would have taken my submission and done the educating I needed one-on-one, but since that didn't happen, I'm glad I found the multiples I did find to help me.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 5:43:08 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		My take on this crime is that both adults are responsible and
should do prison time whether in a prison or a psychiatric facility.
 
The child is better off being placed with responsible and
caring relatives and will need therpay for years.  I hope
that the placement with with people who already know
and love this little boy.  It will be much harder for him
if he has to be placed with complete strangers, no matter
how kind and loving they may be.
 
I think that the Kink and "No Limits" aspects are beside the point.
A pedophile will use whatever scenarios are best suited to
their purposes.  In this case, the mother was manipulated by
believing his claims of dominance.  Ultimately, she is still
responsbile for her own behavior.
 
IMHO,
 
Vendaval
 
 
 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The Dark Side - 7/3/2006 5:58:29 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Any submissive going into a relationship is going into something where her Dom will set the rules eventually. It may not happen quickly, but he will have the power to work things for the result he wants. For that reason, subs should choose their Doms carefully while not in the throes of sub frenzy. Choose someone you know well and respect who has values you desire. Don’t go into a Master/slave relationship and think limits will protect you.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: The Dark Side Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078