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RE: The Dark Side - 7/4/2006 10:20:11 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet

First, i will admit i've only read the first 2 pages of this thread.

But, i'd like to just post my thoughts on Knight's first question..


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

So the question......  Does "No Limits" mean NO Limits... Does "Do Anything" mean ANYTHING"?

What are your thoughts?  What additional thoughts do you have to share?



For me, i have no limits with my C.... BUT.... HE is a responsible, ethical, caring, and sane man. He would never ask me to do something which would cause harm to me mentally or physically OR to anyone/thing else for that matter. The only reason i can have no limits with him is because...simply... HE has them... i know his limits and i know that i am safe in his hands, as are those i care about. This enables me to be free with him. i am precious to him... i'm cherished by him...

Does that make sense?



It makes the most sense of anything posted in this topic so far,well done.

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: The Dark Side - 7/4/2006 12:56:41 PM   
indigo302


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/28/2004
From: Delaware
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lanwolf

indigo i dont think you read the all the posts here fully. As i have said i know this person and the one she clamied was her so called master, i also know W/who she had as friends here in Edmonton. N/no one to my knowladge here knew anything was happening, she talked to no O/one about it but could have talked to alot of people asking for help or assistance on how to deal with the guy in question and trust me no O/one here would have told her what was being asked was ok, would have turned her away, or i hope would have turned a blind eye to what she was doing to her son.
 
  i know myself if i had seen any signs of this happening she would have been reported that day and i would have also been talking to her about the situation that i had called in the police and social services and making sure she understood why. i do know that when it was discovered by another submisivie in the city it was reported right away to the proper people.
 
   she was not alone, she had support and no O/one in the City knew this was happening untill after it came out.


Hi -

I wasn't speaking of the specific act itself.  Obviously that's something she probably wouldn't have let out of the bag easily.

What I was speaking of directly, is this woman had to show some obvious signs of self esteem problems, of fear of abandonment issues, *something* that said she was so desperate she would do *anything*.  I can't imagine she showed as an emotionally healthy individual and suddenly slips into the desperation of molesting her own child for a man over the internet.  It just doesn't make sense to me.


(in reply to lanwolf)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: The Dark Side - 7/4/2006 1:04:21 PM   
indigo302


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/28/2004
From: Delaware
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subjected2006

i should have read all the posts..did not realise this was an on-line infraction..
i am shocked as well...
also understand the anger all these posters are venting
and agree with most everything  being said here EXCEPT that  the kids would be better off in the homes of people they know..you forget those are the same people who were blinded to this craziness.


And blinded to the fact that this woman was suffering some huge emotional problems...the huge lack of self esteem probably being the biggest outward sign

quote:

makes you wonder why.
and so ..on-line gets some more bad rap...
because of someone who didnt know the deffinition of her "rights to refuse"
and that is what i truly  feel is what  the bottom line is here...if this person felt she had the right,ie..was worthy enough to refuse this guy it wouldnt have happened.
period.


I think she understood her right to refuse.....I don't think she had the ability to refuse, because of her deeper emotional issues.
I don't know how many 'subs' I have met in online venues who don't have the emotional ability to say 'no' online, let alone in real life.  They come to this lifestyle because here they can be 'loved'...it's easy to find a man online who will allow you to think....he cares. 

That being said, I don't believe it lets either one of them off the hook.  I am fairly certain people have tried to help her in the past, with her self esteem issues etc (though I can't say for sure as I don't know her)....but she was so busy looking for love, and a man to rescue her emotionally...she didn't have time to wait and grow, and become whole before finding a man.

(in reply to subjected2006)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: The Dark Side - 7/4/2006 1:39:14 PM   
lanwolf


Posts: 78
Joined: 10/31/2005
Status: offline 		What I was speaking of directly, is this woman had to show some obvious signs of self esteem problems, of fear of abandonment issues, *something* that said she was so desperate she would do *anything*.  I can't imagine she showed as an emotionally healthy individual and suddenly slips into the desperation of molesting her own child for a man over the internet.  It just doesn't make sense to me.


     Ok sorry that makes it a bit more clearly on what was meant and I misunderstood you and apologize for that. Yes she showed that she has major disabilities and I feel that she felt if I don’t do this I wont have anyone in my life that loves me. That being said several in the Edmonton community helped her arrange rides to events and functions, gave her rides and we all did our best to ensure she felt included and was included in the community.

  There is no excuse though for her end results. No matter how she felt about herself she knows right from wrong. She knew this action was wrong no just by the laws of the government but also morally. She had places to turn to and get advice she had a support network and still she did this.

  Yes people around her saw her low self worth issues and were trying to help her but this comes down to a matter of a persons morals. She knew it was wrong and would damage her son but her needs were more important and that’s where she made her mistake that she needs to help accountable for. Her main concern in this should not have been will he leave me if I say no, it should have been I will not purposely harm an innocent child, my child for any reason.

(in reply to indigo302)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: The Dark Side - 7/5/2006 4:51:34 AM   
HayaSierra


Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline 		(Fast reply)

I state all the way at the beginning what I will not do when I send out an Application form, but I will also say that "within due time" as they get to know me (on not only an online, but also a real life basis) all gloves in all other matters come off gradually. What this means is this: There are certain things I will never ever ever under any circumstance do -- because they are against my values. So these things I would not order any slave of mine to do either. (afterall, they are an extension of me, as such subject to my morals). Then there are things I am unlikely to ever do -- because they just don't appeal to me. (such as male on male) or I do not see them as useful for my needs. They can still occur, but it is unlikely -- because they just don't do anything for me at all, or I can find better alternatives to get the same point across. With everything else, time, who they are as individuals and how well they know me is the deciding factor. Mostly it is pretty much at a steady but not rushed pace, but some of my expectations are quite "hardcore" -- not in "cruelty" but in the amount of control I exercise over a slave of mine after training, relocation and when they have been around for a bit of time. So yes, I state that I want them to have no-limits by the time I'm done with them, but also have the understanding that there are some things I will never ask them to do and that other things will take some time until we know each other better.

As for the people in the article, sadly I think this would have happened D/s or non D/s involvement in the matter. They both were unstable and needed help.

_____________________________

Haya Sierra
Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
http://groups.msn.com/Domsub/
Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: The Dark Side - 7/6/2006 10:37:57 AM   
bignipples2share


Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

read the article, and despite that tragic situation, there is still imo nothing wrong with the concept of a "no limits" relationship. when i entered the lifestyle, it was my understanding that a Master/slave relationship, by very definition, was one in which the slave had no power, no rights, and no limits. however there's a loud PC segment of the lifestyle who proclaim that we all have rights, SSC is universal, and there is no such thing as no limits (or shouldn't be). obviously, i'm not in that crowd.

i'm a slave. i have no limits of my own. my Master has the right to do whatever he wills with me. and yes that means WHATEVER. i also have no choice but to submit to his will. would i sexually abuse a child on my Master's orders? no. not because i would refuse, not because it is a limit, but because it just wouldn't be possible. i am a submissive as well as a slave...i cannot commit an act of dominance against another person, which is what one is doing when they abuse a child. i'm just not wired to dominate. however in submitting and being submissive one can still find themselves in a situation where various kinds of abuse and other not-so-nice things take place. to me, that is the reality of this life, of being owned and no longer having control over your life or fate. if it's not a reality you can accept, then don't choose this path.


Okay, I understand that you're saying here that you're totally submissive and that the act of abusing your unmentionable would be considered an act of dominace and you're not dominant, however, I would also assume that you would not allow whoever IS dominant to abuse your unmentionable.
I'm not being snippy, I'm just clarifying.

~Big

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: The Dark Side - 7/6/2006 11:43:30 AM   
bignipples2share


Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Okay, this is a tough one to respond to, only in the fact that I'm able to reply in a way that makes sense. Very good post, by the way.
Now on to just reflection of how I see this subject in general------
Yes, some may live by the 'no limits'. This does not mean that they should include others who have no ability to consent to the same 'no limits' such as a person walking down the street, or unmentionables, regardless of their age, child or teen. This equates to the same thing as if he said go shoot the neighbor and she complies.
I see equal guilt by both parties and both should be punished. He's a molester plain and simple and she went along with that, which makes her one too.
From what I understand, people who are molesting unmentionables are not curable and will repeat these acts, even with therapy.
I understand the basics of brainwashing. POW's, Patty Hurst, the women in the box, etc. I don't see that here. I really don't see how that can be done online and I do believe it takes quite a bit to do it offline as well.
I do think, since people who are submissive and slave are giving themselves to others and many are basically maliable, they should have a clue as to who it is they're giving themselves to and exactly what it entails.  They should also have a clue as to what brainwashing is and how it's done. The steps involved, at what point self preservation should take over, if needed.
It's one thing to be aware and informed and still give of oneself to someone who is deserving. It's quite another to go in with stupidity and think that everyone who says they're dom is going to take care of you with your best interest in mind.

~Big

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: The Dark Side - 7/6/2006 1:41:28 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Preface: IMO the "victim's defense" is nil in any situation.  No one is justified or excused from their own actions because of prior abuse.  It's my belief that survivors that go on to perpetrate abuse should receive more stringent punishment than those who've not been abused.  I'm responding only to the OP.
 
What a terrible situation.  I don't see this as a question of limits or doing anything for a Dom. This woman is obviously not capable of making sound and rational decisions for herself or her child.  Therefore, not able to give her consent.  This woman, being mentally challenged, is not able to set limits or give up the right to them. 
 
I don't think that she should be jailed, I do think that she as well as her child should have a lot of therapy.  I also think there should be some intervention in their living situation. 



_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: The Dark Side - 7/6/2006 2:01:09 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bignipples2share


Okay, I understand that you're saying here that you're totally submissive and that the act of abusing your unmentionable would be considered an act of dominace and you're not dominant, however, I would also assume that you would not allow whoever IS dominant to abuse your unmentionable.
I'm not being snippy, I'm just clarifying.

~Big


honestly? i don't "allow" or not allow my Master to do anything. as for the question of little unmentionables...He has one, from a past marriage...though i'm an important figure in the little one's life, i am not a parental figure and have absolutely no authority over X and have no control whatsoever over how X is raised or disciplined or anything else. the same would be the case were my Master and i to produce an unmentionable together. besides being a slave and not having the right to do certain things, there is also the issue of my submissive personality making certain other things impossible for me, like being dominant or taking control in some fashion. this is one of the reasons why i have never ever wished to be a mother...i know that i could not be a proper disciplinarian or leader, and i know the unmentionable would not be safe from the perverse or dangerous drives of any Dominant in my life.

(in reply to bignipples2share)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: The Dark Side - 7/7/2006 10:35:52 PM   
DsPassions


Posts: 2
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: TN
Status: offline 		"You can have No Limits as long as what your doing only effects you. After that common sense has to step in and if it doesn't your responsible for your actions. You should pay for your actions, if you wont use your common sense and become a danger to someone that has no say in it. Her Master should be sitting right there with her, he is just as guilty as she is."

Amen to what waywardsoul has already said. It is truly sad that some have so little sense of responsibility.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: The Dark Side - 7/8/2006 3:18:51 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		greeting to all
 
Ihave read just some of the reply about this woman one said everyone is to blame at the end ofthe night, but with this woman it is not true for her. I say this because as i woman who was abuse by my brother at a young age and then again when i was 20 as i was sleeping. Now my point it this,this woman could had been me if i did not get therapy and fast i had feeling of wanting someone to hurt me i did no know why, i was i confused lucky i was raised  not to lay with just anyone ever this save me from some of the people who would have hurt me becaiuse i had no ideal what i had such feeling. I know this woman wasabuse and badly by one or many. she is trying to get rid of the feelig of hurt pain that she has but does not know why.
 
 
when person is abuse they either will not sleep with anyone at all or sleep with everyone and doeverything. Many of the girls in the old city i live in wereabuse they had babies after baby looking for someone to take care of them father is another thing if a girl does not have one she will look for it in an older man do not make this woman in soemthing of a monster she need help in the worst way. I feel deeply sorry she has not limits when she has not limit she is trying to find that one person who will stay with her this is why she has no limits the abuse istrue for her. ladies do not makeher into somethingbad  it wcould of been anyone of use this is so true i can tell everyone about my sick brother becase i did nothing wrong he did and he still looks at me in that sick ass way
 
take care be kind once and a while to others
 
mons

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: The Dark Side - 7/10/2006 8:38:46 AM   
KennelDeSade2


Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
Your correct that this person needs alot of help.  ... but really I think there are things that could be less horrible and still reflect a person that needs help.
But, Predators don't make Victims they find them and use them.  In there use of victims they create new victims and sometimes future predators.  What are we doing to break the cycle?


Because you agree with somebody else does not make either of you more correct than the person you are concluding needs to be stopped.  At least, not until you have some way to codify and enforce your definition of right and wrong, so it can be made sense of by the average person.  Until then, their decision is just as valid as anybody else's kink, or that is what we hear, until somebody thinks somebody else is just too kinky to be allowed oxygen.
I think we really need to break the cycle of crappy logic, and figure out if anything goes, or we need rules.  Until we have structure, we only have opinions.  Now, since nobody else seems to feel the need for structure, I'm happy to go without rules with teeth.  But let's not make believe we have some unwritten code that will snap into place like magic when needed.   I can't even begin to count all the online protectors who provided anything by a false sense of security, but they sure could strut.


_____________________________

Rules? Just one: I say, she does.
Everything else, is just details.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: The Dark Side - 7/10/2006 9:20:33 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		No, "No Limits" doesn't mean you can engage in something illegal like child abuse!
It's just common sense!

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: The Dark Side - 7/10/2006 11:48:37 AM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		She shouldn't of bought that bs about having to sexually service him or he'd get it from unreliable sources, no limits or not someone said that and I'd have him in jail so fast.


Of course I am mentally stable and I know it's not a no limits thing to abuse someone.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: The Dark Side - 7/10/2006 12:22:52 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		I have seen all too many times these "Predators" who will prey upon the emotional weakness of another . mostly with women but I would assume men can be persuaded as well .... I think even with having no limits . some sense of reasonability needs to be employed as to what limits will be used. I think alot of what that article goes to show is the lengths some predators will go to getting what they want ... including preying upon a woman who is very emoptionally distraught from her past history .... and I personally think the only true victim in that whole situation was the child.
 
 

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: The Dark Side - 7/10/2006 2:38:55 PM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline 		She was "afraid of being abandonned" and she suffers from cerebral palsy and has some difficulty caring for herself. Now these 2 factors contributed to her lack of judgment in the relationship. Personally, i do not believe in a NO limits relationship. Even my dog has limits - i cannot make her not pee or go to sleep or not be hungry.
 
Any person who desires a NO limits relationship from either position i think has some intense emotional and psychological issues that need to be addressed. Regardless of the broad nature of BDSM, sickness can and does exist.

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: The Dark Side - 7/10/2006 3:25:08 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		When someone tells me they have no liimits..then I give them some of  mine.

One limit is never to play with someone so despirate to please that they say they have no limits.

Lotus

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: The Dark Side - 7/10/2006 3:33:33 PM   
Bossandrew


Posts: 6
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline 		May I ask what happened to the paedophile in question? I trust he has been put away for life? and this sad woman who clearly needs protection from vermin like that - who is helping her?

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: The Dark Side - 7/10/2006 3:44:37 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bossandrew

May I ask what happened to the paedophile in question? I trust he has been put away for life? and this sad woman who clearly needs protection from vermin like that - who is helping her?


He is going thru the court process in Ontario.  I have not heard what charges or if there has been a judgement or not.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Bossandrew)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: The Dark Side - 7/11/2006 2:25:38 AM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		so you would look on and do nothing if your dominant chose to molest your off spring? you would choose a dominant who is a pedophile since you can't be quote unquote dominant enough to see a sicko and walk off?

[honestly? i don't "allow" or not allow my Master to do anything.  i have never ever wished to be a mother...i know that i could not be a proper disciplinarian or leader, and i know the unmentionable would not be safe from the perverse or dangerous drives of any Dominant in my life.
[/quote]

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 100
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