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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/3/2006 11:23:51 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WayWardSoul

Eveyone called up Al Gore and told him he needed to invent something to solve the problem. Now we should all call him up to thank him.

ROFLMAO!!!

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/3/2006 11:26:55 PM   
ownedgirlie


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(Does this mean none of us can speak with authority on history?)

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/3/2006 11:29:38 PM   
truesub4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brosco

Wow this is soon damned funny.  A person that claims to be 26 in their profile can speak with authority about what its was like back then!!!! 

LA, in your previous life did you also communicate by writing with charcoal on bark?

Brosco



At 57 brosco... thought perhaps if LA did.. it was from your teachings. LA ... unlike some on here.. pay attention...and remember others postings... so she speaks of remember what others have said i'm sure.. shame more can't do this.. myself included... but no need to be an ass.. because at her young age.. she shows up most twice her age with knowledge....


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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/3/2006 11:33:53 PM   
ElectraGlide


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Hey Wayword if only Al Gores home state of Tenn. would thank him by supporting him the next time he seeks a major office lol.

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/3/2006 11:36:53 PM   
Brosco


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I have written about this before.  When and where I grew up there was no internet at the time, little or no literature - we just struggled through sometimes feeling we were the only people in the world that were like this.  We explored slowly and enjoyed our 'secret and unique' life.  It truly was something special. 

In some ways I envy what resources people have available to them today, but i also wonder if being 'easier' does make it better?  There was something very special about exploring a 'forbiden' area - being unique and having such a secret. 

Without the net we had to learn to communicate our own desires without the help of the words of others.  We had to be honest with our partners, even when we could be perceived as weird.  We had to trust.

And we didn't have an anonymous place to run to to satisfy our desires - we had to take that chance with out partner.

The only thing the internet did was make it easier to discuss with other like minded individuals - but really, finding a partner or discussing your desires with your existing partner is still no easier.

Brosco





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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/3/2006 11:38:10 PM   
CrappyDom


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Glory holes...

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/3/2006 11:38:14 PM   
LadyHugs


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Dear sophia37, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
You inquired if there was BDSM before the Internet.  Although BDSM is short for Bondage, Discipline, Sadism and Masochism, such elements have been found in part and or totally but, under the terms of debauchery. 
 
Artists painted several pictures, which showed Aristotle being on his hands and knees, being the pony to his Mistress Phyllis. One being done by Hans Baldung; other art to be considered as debauchery was done by Leopold van Sacher who lived from 1835-1895.  Art covering Marquis de`Sade's "Justine; Flagulation of Jesus Christ art work and more.  There were "Spanking Clubs" as well as magazines covering debauchery. 
 
Hope this helps.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/3/2006 11:47:36 PM   
Brosco


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u


At 57 brosco... thought perhaps if LA did.. it was from your teachings. LA ... unlike some on here.. pay attention...and remember others postings... so she speaks of remember what others have said i'm sure.. shame more can't do this.. myself included... but no need to be an ass.. because at her young age.. she shows up most twice her age with knowledge....



Sorry... I don't want this to turn into a flame war, but while I think that LA has some very mature opinions, that is all they are... OPINIONS!!!   While ever she speaks her opinions as FACT and believes she speaks for all - she fails.

Does it matter if a person doesn't put 'in my opinion' in front of their statements?  To me it does.  Every day new people join this site and look for answers to their new found feelings.  They don't know what is fact or opinion.  People like LA are very misleading to people looking for answers.  Her opinions are stated as fact because they are fact to her.  I accept that - but hers aren't the only 'facts'.

Brosco

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/3/2006 11:57:06 PM   
Lordandmaster


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I just showed a pair of handcuffs to my dates and watched their response.

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/3/2006 11:59:33 PM   
CrappyDom


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Brosco,

You know that high horse you think you are riding, if you look down it has short legs, a snout, a curly tail, and it stinks.

That "crap" that LA spouts isn't something she pulled out of her oh so lovely ass, she learned it from people who WERE there.  In addition, we have all read historical accounts written at the time that confirm what many of us here believe things were like.

I realize that fact tastes like pee in your wheaties but every time you take this tact you are going to have your ass handed to you.  While YOUR experiences are certainly unique to you, that doesn't mean that what others say happened didn't.

The history of what went on in the major S&M centers isn't really in doubt except in chatrooms and by idiots who try and lay claim to something they didn't have then and sure as hell don't have now.

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/4/2006 12:10:51 AM   
wild1cfl


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In my 51 years on this planet there is one thing that I have found is certain and that is that I can learn something from anyone no matter what their age.  LA is one of those people that I have found over the couple of years on this site to be wise beyond her years, even if she is only 26. Brosco you on the other hand have only shown how juvenile you can be at the age of 50 something. Sad commentary for wisdom comes with age.

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My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/4/2006 12:20:46 AM   
Bluebird


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My college boyfriend (now my husband for the past 17 years!) first brought up the idea of bondage 20 years ago, and although I didn't react so positively at first, upon reflection decided, "what's the harm, and it will make him happy" so I tentatively agreed to play a bit.  By senior year, we had the "BitNet" (anyone remember that?) and I spoke to a wide range of college students from all over the country and discovered that the games we were playing were not so unique.  Also, there were magazines in the bookstores such as "Bondage Life" which portrayed adults playing in a loving and fun manner, and I think that helped us see that this was a positive element.  Once out of school, we attended events such as "Dressing for Pleasure" in the NY/NJ area, and occasionally went into NYC to the clubs and learned that there was a thriving BDSM community out there. 
 
It is easier to meet people now, which is good and bad (as others have stated) - good for the obvious reasons, bad because it is so easy for the posers to play and lurk.  I think good people have always found a way to come together and the others, well, the chaff sorts itself out, I think.

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Love is patient, love is kind. I am neither. Get over it.

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/4/2006 12:41:28 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

But for those of us on the outside, the Internet has essentially turned out to be a decoy of sorts.  One would think sites like this would be full of those who are seeking others but as we all know, that's probably only about 25% of the membership.  The rest are playing, testing the waters, trying to learn about something they are too afraid to go out and try in person, wanking, etc.


I didn't have time to respond to this part of the question earlier, but I think it speaks to one of the differences between the pre-Internet days and these days. My experiences in the beginning were based on a very limited scope.. never heard of others into BDSM, no reading of any sort.. pure instinct and driven by a craving.. so read this post with that in mind.

Most of the underground newspapers were local to your immediately community. My own advertisement was inserted into a Swingers rag which had a 'very' small section devoted to BDSM folks. (Women got to insert ads for free back then.. don't know if it's the same now) When the rag with my ad came out, the only other ads in the BDSM section placed by women were a few pro-dom ads. I was, literally, the only single female submissive who had placed an ad that month. ::chuckles:: There weren't a whole lot of ads placed by men as I recall either.. maybe 15 or so, mostly gay guys (it was San Francisco) looking for S/m partners.

I don't recall anyone seeking long term relationships and the word 'discreet' was in most if not all of those ads. Today that word raises red flags with me.. caution that a person might be married and cheating, but back then, it would have raised a flag if it wasn't used.. times do change. ::chuckles::

I was probably a bit too serious about things and was pretty specific that I wanted and was seeking was a Master. Age and orientation were unimportant and when Master A wrote to me, he told me he was in his 50's (He was actually 63) and that he was gay so I shouldn't expect sex. He never used the words Old Guard. (I have no idea when that term was invented either).. but he made himself very clear in his expectations and he was pretty damn serious as well. He was all about ritual, protocol, service and S/m.. and no sex at all, which is why I chuckle when I read others saying that BDSM is all about sex. Uh huh. Ok. Not for everyone though. ;)

Of course, there were good and bad elements, but when you met someone, it was in person and whether they were good or bad (and at that time I didn't really care if they were good or bad) .. it never would have even crossed my mind that someone was looking strictly for wanking material ::chuckles:: on the Internet, I assume that most are looking for exactly that, so I guess I've become a bit jaded.

I'm sure there were people who were no shows for meetings, but I never personally ran across any. You couldn't just turn on a PC somewhere.. you had to write a letter, put a stamp on it.. actually mail it and put some time and effort into making arrangements. There is no weeding out process now because everything these days is quick and easy.. and if someone is looking for nothing but a one-handed IM thrill, all you have to do is IM 100 people and the odds are at least one of them will hit. Much different from taking the time to write to 100 people (as if there were 100 people to write to anyway!) put 100 stamps on them and mail them out. Of course stamps were a lot cheaper then.. but it still required substantial effort.

Those who were afraid to jump remained unseen.. today, it doesn't matter if you're afraid, you are seen because there are the resources available now to see you.

Ok, this is too long already.. I do get on a roll sometimes. ::chuckles:: There is much more, but I'll save it for another time.

Celeste

edited to correct paragraphing issues

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 7/4/2006 1:02:37 AM >


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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/4/2006 12:50:19 AM   
Brosco


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wild1cfl

In my 51 years on this planet there is one thing that I have found is certain and that is that I can learn something from anyone no matter what their age.  LA is one of those people that I have found over the couple of years on this site to be wise beyond her years, even if she is only 26. Brosco you on the other hand have only shown how juvenile you can be at the age of 50 something. Sad commentary for wisdom comes with age.


Then you must be very easily led and seem to be influenced more by the way something is said - than what is actually said - and that is very sad.

You may wish to check back - I never questioned LA's maturity - I questioned her presentation - but it appears you would prefer to be told what to believe, rather than being given options to consider.

In any discussion/debating group, any statement that is simply expressed as fact will be questioned for the supporting references.  That is why most people are capable of stating if something is just an opinion.  In fact, supporting references to any claim may be:

"From what I have read in..."
"With my experience..."
"In my opinion..."
"For me ... "
"According to...."
etc etc.

To me it is important to know what terms of reference a person is using.  It places the opinion in context.

Now, I believe that when LA expresses an opinion it really is exactly that and should be read with a "To me.." at the start, and I have never had a problem with that.  It doesn't affect me that she wishes to appear arrogant or to have discovered the One-True-Way, but it is very misleading for new people who are trying to learn.

And on the topic in question, yes, LA managed to represent some of the people from a past era, but sheeeez...  we aren't talking about Napoleonic time here that required resorting to history books  - we are just talking about a few decades ago that has many here to  express their experience.  LA's expression appears to be quite valid for some - but she expressed it as the one and only fact.  Sorry, she is not qualified or experienced enough to speak for all.

Brosco



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Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/4/2006 12:59:40 AM   
Brosco


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Brosco,

You know that high horse you think you are riding, if you look down it has short legs, a snout, a curly tail, and it stinks.

That "crap" that LA spouts isn't something she pulled out of her oh so lovely ass, she learned it from people who WERE there.  In addition, we have all read historical accounts written at the time that confirm what many of us here believe things were like.

I realize that fact tastes like pee in your wheaties but every time you take this tact you are going to have your ass handed to you.  While YOUR experiences are certainly unique to you, that doesn't mean that what others say happened didn't.

The history of what went on in the major S&M centers isn't really in doubt except in chatrooms and by idiots who try and lay claim to something they didn't have then and sure as hell don't have now.


Crap on Crappy.

I believe we had a thread that invited personal experiences - if you have some, then please contribute.  If not, please don't attack me for sharing mine.  At no stage did I suggest that my experiences were global and applied to all - but at least I gave an honest account from my time - thats in comparison to someone telling all what it was like with no knowledge or experience to back the claim - or at least no terms of reference to understand where the claim came from

Brosco

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Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/4/2006 4:19:31 AM   
wandering4u


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(Quietly avoiding the above "discussion") Prior to the internet, it was a matter of deciding how to present the idea to whoever you were seeing.  I wish I had thought of the handcuff idea (where were you Lordandmaster! lol)

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/4/2006 5:00:08 AM   
JohnWarren


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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brosco

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

It took more work, but they definitely existed.  As well, while there may have been less avenues for people who wanted some fun kinky flings, there were still assholes and bad people.



Wow this is soon damned funny.  A person that claims to be 26 in their profile can speak with authority about what its was like back then!!!! 

LA, in your previous life did you also communicate by writing with charcoal on bark?

Brosco


I was born in 1944, but I can speak with a certain degree of authority about what went on in WWII.  It's a matter of doing research and evaluating sources.

As far as what LA has written, it exactly parallels what I've experienced in my time in the scene.  Are you arguing that there weren't assholes back then?

< Message edited by JohnWarren -- 7/4/2006 5:04:00 AM >


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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/4/2006 5:42:08 AM   
heartfeltsub


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That is what i was trying to figure out about this arguement, all LA said was that it is easier to find others in the lifestyle since the advent of the Internet and that assholes abound in all time periods, how is that remotely arguable???

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/4/2006 6:00:40 AM   
wandering4u


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nicely summed up Heart!

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RE: Before the Internet Arrived... - 7/4/2006 6:09:20 AM   
heartfeltsub


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Thank you

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