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RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/19/2013 10:23:11 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I have talked to you enough to know you are too smart to be saying that pounding on an unconscious man was in any way justified.




I don't know how you are even coming up with that interpretation. I said the cop died because he was stupid.

As to the line of duty determination, of course it is going to go that way for a dead cop. If the incident had gone another way, and the department was facing a massive suit over a teenager the cop wound up going all excessive force on the teenager who vandalized his car, the lawyers might have them singing a different tune, since he was the victim first.

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RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/19/2013 10:25:15 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Well, wasn't it established by all the medical and legal experts on the internet that no one could ever be so incapacitated by a sucker punch from a teen, that their life would be in danger?  Or was that strictly in the Yahoo comments section?

I get the impression that the cop was focused on the person who was keying the car & arguing with that guy, not on his two friends, one of which is the one that caught him off guard & punched him and then pulled his legs out from under him (since the punch didn't knock him off his feet).. so its not the same as Zimmy's case (I expect Zimmy would have actually stayed in his nice safe car if Martin had 2 other young males with him)..

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RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/19/2013 10:42:28 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I have talked to you enough to know you are too smart to be saying that pounding on an unconscious man was in any way justified.




I don't know how you are even coming up with that interpretation. I said the cop died because he was stupid.

As to the line of duty determination, of course it is going to go that way for a dead cop. If the incident had gone another way, and the department was facing a massive suit over a teenager the cop wound up going all excessive force on the teenager who vandalized his car, the lawyers might have them singing a different tune, since he was the victim first.

I was clarifying for the less intellectually gifted among us.What you added this time has merit.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/19/2013 11:34:10 PM   
MsMJAY


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline 		This story is well over a year old. http://www.elpasotimes.com/tablehome/ci_21708260/el-paso-police-officer-dies-from-sept-25

The cop was off duty and his personal vehicle got vandalized. He left his home and went looking for the person he thought did it. He was wrong to do that. (and stupid) When a cop is off duty and a victim of a crime he is the same as any other citizen. He should have reported it to the police and let them handle it. I feel terrible that he died but he never should have taken it to the streets. He should have handled it through the proper channels. As a cop he should have known better. And the ones who killed him just might get off with self-defense or SYG.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/19/2013 11:58:27 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Well, wasn't it established by all the medical and legal experts on the internet that no one could ever be so incapacitated by a sucker punch from a teen, that their life would be in danger?  Or was that strictly in the Yahoo comments section?

And after all Gonzales is just a young child who went for a walk with his friends.



Yeah and he was drinking ice tea and eating Skittles.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 5:45:51 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
Well, wasn't it established by all the medical and legal experts on the internet that no one could ever be so incapacitated by a sucker punch from a teen, that their life would be in danger?  Or was that strictly in the Yahoo comments section?

And after all Gonzales is just a young child who went for a walk with his friends.


I bet Molina was one of them there "white hispanics."


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 6:06:29 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

because this is the exact opposite and  the kid should be assumed to be not guilty and it should be stand your ground.


Stand your ground has never applied to officers of the law - as you well know.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 6:07:50 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		pulling the legs out from underneath him sounds like what knocked him out, people go down a lot differently like that, and Id like to see the autopsy records on his skull
its a bit like appless n giraffes, but yanno reality has nothing to do with the fact that this kid deserves jail for killing a cop, if the cop was armed, to make this.... relevant, why didnt he use it?
No Im not blaming the cop. Im blaming the shit that took his legs from under him and put him in a coma. then died as a result of his injuries.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 6:28:58 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

because this is the exact opposite and  the kid should be assumed to be not guilty and it should be stand your ground.


Stand your ground has never applied to officers of the law - as you well know.


Bullshit.  Show me the statute that specifically forbids it. Someone in plain clothes saying he is a police officer who means to harm you clearly, is no proof of his being one.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/20/2013 6:29:21 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 6:43:03 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		So you are claiming that the police are required by law to retreat?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

because this is the exact opposite and  the kid should be assumed to be not guilty and it should be stand your ground.


Stand your ground has never applied to officers of the law - as you well know.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 6:55:24 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		I never mentioned  Zimmerman. 

There's also New Mexico case on the news right now where the arm chair legal experts are claiming that an officer shouldn't have drawn his Taser on a teenager who was swinging at him. That is based on the media myth that any teenager is harmless and that all police must possess superior Chuck Norris skills... which this incident  (and the West Memphis incident, et al.) proves to be a false perception.















quote:

ORIGINAL:tj44




quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Well, wasn't it established by all the medical and legal experts on the internet that no one could ever be so incapacitated by a sucker punch from a teen, that their life would be in danger?  Or was that strictly in the Yahoo comments section?

I get the impression that the cop was focused on the person who was keying the car & arguing with that guy, not on his two friends, one of which is the one that caught him off guard & punched him and then pulled his legs out from under him (since the punch didn't knock him off his feet).. so its not the same as Zimmy's case (I expect Zimmy would have actually stayed in his nice safe car if Martin had 2 other young males with him)..

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 11:22:44 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

This story is well over a year old. http://www.elpasotimes.com/tablehome/ci_21708260/el-paso-police-officer-dies-from-sept-25

The cop was off duty and his personal vehicle got vandalized. He left his home and went looking for the person he thought did it. He was wrong to do that. (and stupid) When a cop is off duty and a victim of a crime he is the same as any other citizen. He should have reported it to the police and let them handle it. I feel terrible that he died but he never should have taken it to the streets. He should have handled it through the proper channels. As a cop he should have known better. And the ones who killed him just might get off with self-defense or SYG.



I am not sure what the date matters but I doubt they will get off with SYG. Did you actually read this somewhere or are you just guessing?

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(in reply to MsMJAY)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 11:28:14 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I never mentioned  Zimmerman. 

There's also New Mexico case on the news right now where the arm chair legal experts are claiming that an officer shouldn't have drawn his Taser on a teenager who was swinging at him. That is based on the media myth that any teenager is harmless and that all police must possess superior Chuck Norris skills... which this incident  (and the West Memphis incident, et al.) proves to be a false perception.


then you being exceptionally vague proves what point? how is anyone to know wtf you are babbling about? again, some reference to some case in some state but no links to this proves what in relation to these forums and what posters here have said? who here on this thread has said "all police must possess superior Chuck Norris skills?.. I think most are sympathetic to what happened to the cop..

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 11:32:08 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		FR:
If an unarmed teenager can kill a cop with their bare hands, why do all of the NRA screechers claim that they need a gun in order to defend themselves?
Pussies.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 11:35:38 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

FR:
If an unarmed teenager can kill a cop with their bare hands, why do all of the NRA screechers claim that they need a gun in order to defend themselves?
Pussies.



Yes, that's a good question. All they need to do is make sure they are standing on cement and the perp is looking the other way and they can pull on their legs. Why the hell hasn't someone already thought of this. I can see the cops now, standing there just waiting for someone to do something wrong and then turn their back. Then they can either attack or suggest the guy move over to the concrete so they can take them down. I feel safer already.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 11/20/2013 11:40:02 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 4:27:22 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

oooooooooooooh now it makes sense
welll, in Bama world
by the way
he should have taken his beating like a man
was said how many times???
those exact words, and links please?


Exactly what I was thinking Lucy.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 4:37:01 PM   
MsMJAY


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I am not sure what the date matters but I doubt they will get off with SYG. Did you actually read this somewhere or are you just guessing?


The facts of the case were all in the link I posted in my last post. The self-defense/SYG part was purely opinion but I just checked and I was pretty spot on. http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_22029939/bond-reduced-suspect-police-officers-death

The boy's lawyer is using a self-defense plea claiming that the officer aggressively confronted the boys, used profanity and gay slurs towards them and basically passed the first lick. So that was actually a good guess on my part.

Like I said I feel very sorry for the death of this officer but what he did was very foolish. What exactly did he think was going to happen when he approached these men on the streets, off duty, out of uniform with no backup regarding a very personal incident? And he only decided to call 911 after he approached them and the situation started going south. I am very sorry he died and I sincerely hope the boy who killed him will do time, but I won't hold my breath. Again his actions were very foolish and will be used to defend the suspect. Police officers are not too popular these days and the officer was clearly wrong in how he handled this. That will most likely have a lot of influence on the outcome of this case. That being said he did not deserve to die and he does deserve justice. I hope he gets it.



< Message edited by MsMJAY -- 11/20/2013 4:38:53 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 7:07:29 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Maybe read for comprehension, instead of for argumentation?  Or don't, not my problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I never mentioned  Zimmerman. 

There's also New Mexico case on the news right now where the arm chair legal experts are claiming that an officer shouldn't have drawn his Taser on a teenager who was swinging at him. That is based on the media myth that any teenager is harmless and that all police must possess superior Chuck Norris skills... which this incident  (and the West Memphis incident, et al.) proves to be a false perception.


then you being exceptionally vague proves what point? how is anyone to know wtf you are babbling about? again, some reference to some case in some state but no links to this proves what in relation to these forums and what posters here have said? who here on this thread has said "all police must possess superior Chuck Norris skills?.. I think most are sympathetic to what happened to the cop..

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 7:13:24 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		You can call it wrong (or as others have put it 'stupid') all you want, many states *require* officers to act when they observe criminal activity on or off duty, he may not have had the non-LEO's option of staying out of harm's way.  He may have thought back up was near but the subjects doubled back, or a host of other unknown or badly reported factors... like so many of these cases that make it into the media.  Or he may have made every mistake in the book, I doubt if we can tell which is which from just the news.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I am not sure what the date matters but I doubt they will get off with SYG. Did you actually read this somewhere or are you just guessing?


The facts of the case were all in the link I posted in my last post. The self-defense/SYG part was purely opinion but I just checked and I was pretty spot on. http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_22029939/bond-reduced-suspect-police-officers-death

The boy's lawyer is using a self-defense plea claiming that the officer aggressively confronted the boys, used profanity and gay slurs towards them and basically passed the first lick. So that was actually a good guess on my part.

Like I said I feel very sorry for the death of this officer but what he did was very foolish. What exactly did he think was going to happen when he approached these men on the streets, off duty, out of uniform with no backup regarding a very personal incident? And he only decided to call 911 after he approached them and the situation started going south. I am very sorry he died and I sincerely hope the boy who killed him will do time, but I won't hold my breath. Again his actions were very foolish and will be used to defend the suspect. Police officers are not too popular these days and the officer was clearly wrong in how he handled this. That will most likely have a lot of influence on the outcome of this case. That being said he did not deserve to die and he does deserve justice. I hope he gets it.



(in reply to MsMJAY)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: El Paso police officer murdered by unarmed 17 year old - 11/20/2013 7:44:17 PM   
bossman777


Posts: 65
Joined: 11/25/2011
Status: offline 		Texas law provides you have the right to pursue a thief making off with your property, and to use deadly force against criminal mischief in the night. So the very idea of some other 'proper channel' to 'handle' such a situation is stupid. What the victim did *was* a proper channel. Any other 'channel' would have meant no justice. The perps get away to commit crimes some future day. Some of us do not find that acceptable when we have witnessed who the criminal is--and want to do what we can to bring him to justice. This man gave his life to confront some thugs. As a result, three of the thugs are unlikely to ever cause you or me a problem. One, because he is going to prison for murder and the other two because they realize now, like most grown men, just how easily tempers can flare when you are out damaging the property others care about, and worked hard to acquire. This cop is a hero. His only mistake was in not keeping his attention on all 3 of the thugs, instead of the one who scratched his car.

(in reply to MsMJAY)
Profile   Post #: 40
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