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RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/1/2013 6:30:32 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		'Abortion' is also a term that appeared nowhere in my question about contraception and Baptists...


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Even if you are defining all contraception as 'abortion', you're still not accurately representing the dogma of mainstream Protestants.

.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I think, in general, most Christians are against abortion.

Whether they follow that edict is another question altogether.



I wasn't trying to represent the dogma of mainstream Protestants. Indeed, I wasn't trying to represent anyone at all.

Abortion is a clearly defined term.


_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/1/2013 9:31:54 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

'Abortion' is also a term that appeared nowhere in my question about contraception and Baptists...




I'm glad to hear that.

You were the one that used the term, not I.

I simply responded to your post.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/1/2013 9:42:50 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

On what planet are Baptists opposed to contraception?   It is purely an American Taliban fabrication that extreme right wingers should worship the Pope and obey his holy writs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Baptists, by and large, are opposed to birth control and abortion.



http://liveactionnews.org/southern-baptists-file-first-federal-lawsuit-government-obamacare-birth-control-mandate/

http://www.abpnews.com/opinion/commentaries/item/8836-the-baptist-war-on-contraception#.UpwcdyfN5I4

Do a casual google on this and you will find that among conservative protestant denominations there is a growing trend to oppose contraception. This accords with what I have aneqdotally noticed at various conferences etc. Certainly not all. But the more active, the more likely.


(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/1/2013 9:47:49 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		So returning to the next shoes to drop:

Two more areas of "settled law" that I think will result in portions of Obamacare being ruled illegal. I mentioned the indiana school district, previously. One of the plaintiffs is Oklahoma:

While the president's health law is vast and extraordinarily complex, it is in one respect very simple. Subsidies are only to be made available, and tax penalties for not signing up for health insurance are only to be assessed, in states that create their own health-care exchange. The IRS, however, is attempting to enforce tax penalties in all states—including Oklahoma and the majority of the other states that have declined to create their own exchanges. Citizens and businesses in these states must use the federal exchange instead.
Enlarge Image

Bloomberg News

The distinction is critical, because under the terms of the law it is the availability of government insurance-premium subsidies that triggers the penalties against businesses if they fail to provide their employees with health insurance that the administration deems acceptable. This is a huge problem for the administration, which desperately needs to hand out tax credits and subsidies to the citizenry to quash the swelling backlash against the law.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304448204579186322449012040


The supreme court already has standards for constitutional challenge. However

What’s actually new here is the Obama administration’s 2012 regulation requiring almost all employers to cover contraception, sterilization and drugs that may cause abortion. It issued that regulation under authority given in the Obamacare legislation.
The regulation runs afoul of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, a Clinton-era law. That act says that the government may impose a substantial burden on the exercise of religious belief only if it’s the least restrictive way to advance a compelling governmental interest. The act further says that no later law should be read to trump this protection unless it explicitly says it’s doing that. The Affordable Care Act has no such language.

So while the law may or may not be constitutional, it seems likely it falls afoul of the Religous Freedom Restoration Act.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-30/war-on-contraception-no-an-attack-on-religion.html

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/2/2013 2:25:22 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		The one about the state run exchanges might have legs. The other? RFRA is unconstitutional and everyone knows it.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/2/2013 6:54:16 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		I didn't use that term at all.

I asked about contraception, and you posted something completely irrelevant about a different topic.  That isn't 'responding', that is 'trying to derail'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

'Abortion' is also a term that appeared nowhere in my question about contraception and Baptists...




I'm glad to hear that.

You were the one that used the term, not I.

I simply responded to your post.


_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/2/2013 7:02:07 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		That looks a political meme that has only come up very recently as part of the 'War on Women'. 

The irony of the convenient alliance with traditional enemies is hard to escape.  


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

On what planet are Baptists opposed to contraception?   It is purely an American Taliban fabrication that extreme right wingers should worship the Pope and obey his holy writs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Baptists, by and large, are opposed to birth control and abortion.



http://liveactionnews.org/southern-baptists-file-first-federal-lawsuit-government-obamacare-birth-control-mandate/

http://www.abpnews.com/opinion/commentaries/item/8836-the-baptist-war-on-contraception#.UpwcdyfN5I4

Do a casual google on this and you will find that among conservative protestant denominations there is a growing trend to oppose contraception. This accords with what I have aneqdotally noticed at various conferences etc. Certainly not all. But the more active, the more likely.




_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/2/2013 9:10:27 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		I'm really not following what you are trying to argue here. You asked me where on earth do baptists oppose contraception. I provided you links.

However, you are wrong that this has come up very recently. The thaw between catholics and protestants has been occuring gradually over the last 30 years, and has been (and will be) accelerating.

find it ironic - I find it natural. The things that both have in common are far greater than the things that divide them.




quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

That looks a political meme that has only come up very recently as part of the 'War on Women'. 

The irony of the convenient alliance with traditional enemies is hard to escape.  


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

On what planet are Baptists opposed to contraception?   It is purely an American Taliban fabrication that extreme right wingers should worship the Pope and obey his holy writs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Baptists, by and large, are opposed to birth control and abortion.



http://liveactionnews.org/southern-baptists-file-first-federal-lawsuit-government-obamacare-birth-control-mandate/

http://www.abpnews.com/opinion/commentaries/item/8836-the-baptist-war-on-contraception#.UpwcdyfN5I4

Do a casual google on this and you will find that among conservative protestant denominations there is a growing trend to oppose contraception. This accords with what I have aneqdotally noticed at various conferences etc. Certainly not all. But the more active, the more likely.





(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/2/2013 4:51:16 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

On what planet are Baptists opposed to contraception?   It is purely an American Taliban fabrication that extreme right wingers should worship the Pope and obey his holy writs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Baptists, by and large, are opposed to birth control and abortion.



http://liveactionnews.org/southern-baptists-file-first-federal-lawsuit-government-obamacare-birth-control-mandate/

http://www.abpnews.com/opinion/commentaries/item/8836-the-baptist-war-on-contraception#.UpwcdyfN5I4

Do a casual google on this and you will find that among conservative protestant denominations there is a growing trend to oppose contraception. This accords with what I have aneqdotally noticed at various conferences etc. Certainly not all. But the more active, the more likely.




Okay....sorry....I have to ask....what is a "casual Google search"?

I wanna do this right.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/2/2013 4:53:08 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I didn't use that term at all.

I asked about contraception, and you posted something completely irrelevant about a different topic.  That isn't 'responding', that is 'trying to derail'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

'Abortion' is also a term that appeared nowhere in my question about contraception and Baptists...




I'm glad to hear that.

You were the one that used the term, not I.

I simply responded to your post.



Well look at me....I'm the asshole.

(It happens).

Let's go get an ice cream.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/2/2013 4:55:56 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I'm really not following what you are trying to argue here. You asked me where on earth do baptists oppose contraception. I provided you links.

However, you are wrong that this has come up very recently. The thaw between catholics and protestants has been occuring gradually over the last 30 years, and has been (and will be) accelerating.

find it ironic - I find it natural. The things that both have in common are far greater than the things that divide them.




quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

That looks a political meme that has only come up very recently as part of the 'War on Women'. 

The irony of the convenient alliance with traditional enemies is hard to escape.  


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

On what planet are Baptists opposed to contraception?   It is purely an American Taliban fabrication that extreme right wingers should worship the Pope and obey his holy writs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Baptists, by and large, are opposed to birth control and abortion.



http://liveactionnews.org/southern-baptists-file-first-federal-lawsuit-government-obamacare-birth-control-mandate/

http://www.abpnews.com/opinion/commentaries/item/8836-the-baptist-war-on-contraception#.UpwcdyfN5I4

Do a casual google on this and you will find that among conservative protestant denominations there is a growing trend to oppose contraception. This accords with what I have aneqdotally noticed at various conferences etc. Certainly not all. But the more active, the more likely.







THAT, by itself, alone, is more than historically fascinating.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/3/2013 2:04:39 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
Okay....sorry....I have to ask....what is a "casual Google search"?
I wanna do this right.


It's using Google for a search, but with the understanding that others can also use Google, and that you are still allowed to use other search engines. Think of it like an "open" relationship kind of thing.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/3/2013 2:36:23 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
Okay....sorry....I have to ask....what is a "casual Google search"?
I wanna do this right.


It's using Google for a search, but with the understanding that others can also use Google, and that you are still allowed to use other search engines. Think of it like an "open" relationship kind of thing.



Wow.....then....I've been cheating on Google.

(I use Bing occasionally).

I feel so dirty now.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/3/2013 3:49:49 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
Wow.....then....I've been cheating on Google.
(I use Bing occasionally).


Two have played at that game, I'm afraid. Lookie.

quote:

I feel so dirty now.


You're welcome.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/12/2013 10:54:20 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Ahh..

So the news today is that Oregon has spent $300 million dollar and has enrolled: 1
One person. From one of the most forward (well leftie) states in the union.

What a way to bend health care costs downward.
So, for all those obama care supporters that claimed "it couldn't be worse than our existing system" I submit to you not only could it be - but it has now been proven that it is worse.
And pretty much considering that it is run by democrats for democrats, funded by the rest of us - it pretty much HAD to run worse.


The other news of the day (as I've been saying in multiple posts). What the feds have been calling "enrolled" has of course never been accurate.

First - it was anyone that visited the website and set up an account.
Now - its anyone that selected a plan.

Of course, if you watched this at all, only 5-10% of people that have selected a plan have currently actually purchased it. Ie., paid for it.

And the only people that ARE signing up of course are the poor and the very ill. Which of course is not sustainable.

I remember back in the days the government confiscated the mustang ranch. And couldn't even make money whoring girls out.

Whaddya know obama - those insurance companies give *better* coverage at cheaper prices than the government does.

There is nothing wrong with saying that we want to help the poor. In fact we should. But it didn't take 169 new federal agencies to do that.

ObamaCare: Democrats idea of government.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/12/2013 10:57:35 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		But of course that is sifted and knowing lie.  Oregons exchange does not work.  It isn't because nobody is not wanting what is on the cart, they cannot get it.

Thanks for the pantshitting hysteria without credible citation which you never have, so that the lie can be obscured for the feebleminded.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/12/2013 10:59:58 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/12/2013 11:27:40 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Lets face it Ron, the almighty prognostication goal posts made are so wide you could drive a continent thru it.
part of the aca was the expansion of medicaid...fact
It was so that people who have been unable to afford, or medically get reasonably priced insurance COULD get affordable healthcare.

The preening and ass aching will be right by some measure of degree simply because the goalposts are so wide...
its sadly laughable
roll on single payer!!!!




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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/12/2013 1:39:35 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		He's tossing around lies because the facts are proving him wrong as always. At last count over 2 million Americans have gotten insurance through the exchanges.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/12/2013 9:01:52 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		I signed up for next years insurance plan a few weeks ago, and I haven't paid a penny for it yet.

What an amazing coincidence. Existing insurance that works just like Obama care.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Ahh..

The other news of the day (as I've been saying in multiple posts). What the feds have been calling "enrolled" has of course never been accurate.

First - it was anyone that visited the website and set up an account.
Now - its anyone that selected a plan.

Of course, if you watched this at all, only 5-10% of people that have selected a plan have currently actually purchased it. Ie., paid for it.

And the only people that ARE signing up of course are the poor and the very ill. Which of course is not sustainable.




_____________________________

Reading for understanding, instead of for argumentation, has its advantages.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: The next shoe to drop.... - 12/12/2013 9:21:10 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He's tossing around lies because the facts are proving him wrong as always. At last count over 2 million Americans have gotten insurance through the exchanges.


I dare you.
Find a source that says 2million people have signed up for insurance. Not medicare or medicaid: insurance.

Signed up as in: paid for.
Because the numbers are as I've reported them. Everyone - insurance companies, democrats in congress, HHS are acknowleding they are getting enrollments at 10% of the rate expected.

They would have to do 3 million enrollments in December to meet their goal. And with 8 days left till the December deadline - it will never happen.

So lets have a bet Dom Ken: If Obamacare hits 3 million paid subscriptions by Dec 23 - I won't post here for a year. And if they don't hit 3 million paid (non medicaid) policies by Dec 23 - you don't post for a year.

Let's put your money where your mouth is...

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 100
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