quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Ironically, the thread at the top of Ask A Master is about a woman who has been in a 4.5 year non-relationship where she and the guy were each other's fetish delivery system a few days a week. So it's possible to get what the OP says he wants. I'm just not convinced he really wants it.

Oh, I'm not saying it's impossible. Does that thread sound to you like somebody who is happy being just that? Does that thread lead you to believe that the OP knows she's just being that fetish delivery service or do you believe she thinks it's a relationship?

If I asked you the stone cold, hard truth of your opinion about that thread, I don't think it would be pretty.

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ORIGINAL: Ilyrium

I am not looking for a relationship.
I'm looking for kinky sex.

But, at least, I'm being honest about what it is that I need and want.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
You said: "the point of view of a sub male who might already view himself as an alien life form."
"For those who don't feel "normal," "others out there just as "abnormal" as they are."

I consider those to be unhealthy ways to view yourself. You may not think so, but I personally would not want to be in a relationship with anyone who thought they were abnormal and looked to me to validate that they are normal or worse thinks I am "abnormal" too"

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If that advice in those magazines actually worked those magazines would most likely be out of business wouldn't they?

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Yes there is plenty of advice and self help in every type of venue. Why then, does there still seem to be so much confusion and failure where relationships and sex are involved? Possibly because people want to look everywhere for advice except to the person that they are in the relationship with.

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My observation has been that a woman is usually not going to ask anyone what her husband wants sexually from her. Now a woman may ask another woman about where to find something or how to do something particular that her husband has already expressed an interest in, but I have never in my life had a woman ask me what her husband wanted from her sexually. I seriously doubt that there are too many men that would even admit that they were not pleasing their wife/woman to another man. So I really do not think most men go around asking other men what their own women want from them sexually. (your mileage may vary)

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By all means...Ask. Give. Advise. The problem is what you ask and how you ask it. Most women on these forums are very careful to make a distinction between giving advice and giving masturbation material. Men come here all the time trying to get us to give them wank fodder or comparing us to porn. Forgive the women for being careful about what type of questions we will and will not answer. But much of it has to do with the phrasing. Basing your question on internet Femdom art is not likely to be met with eager participation around here.

Ultimately no matter what anyone else tells you, you still have to go to the other party in the relationship and find out what they think. Especially if it has to do with sex or kink. What I want in my kink will tell you absolutely nothing about what any other woman on this forum wants.

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I don't doubt this at all, although being polite and gentlemanly is the easy part.

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If it were that easy more submissive men would be doing it.

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But reading threads like this, I get the impression that it's the men who need all the advice, while the women seem to know everything already.

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Well, perhaps we're talking about two different situations here: One in which the advice-seeker is already married or in a committed relationship, and the other might be somebody who is not in a relationship, single and looking.

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Sometimes, I see elements of groupthink at work.

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if the guys aren't being polite and gentlemanly? I've seen that the rules suddenly change when a woman might actually be physically attracted to a man and is really hot for the guy (no matter if he's polite or gentlemanly).

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Man: What turns you on?
Woman: If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

No one is talking about conforming. There is huge difference between conforming to mainstream society and being a healthy, well balanced individual who makes their own choices and does not think of themselves as "abnormal" to do so.

quote:

quote:

But reading threads like this, I get the impression that it's the men who need all the advice, while the women seem to know everything already.

Yet it seems like in most of these threads the very same man that is asking the questions seems to have all the answers while pointedly ignoring the advice of the women they asked. Reference this same thread.

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Actually the conversation is more like this:
Man: What turns you on?
Woman: Intelligent conversation, romantic dates, spending time and getting to know the real me as a person.
Man: So do you have some thigh high leather boots that you can wear and crush my cock and balls with?
(True Story)

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I have never had any single women ask those types of things. I might be wrong here, but seriously? You are saying single men check their egos long enough to ask each other advice on how to please women sexually?

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I can believe they ask platonic things but not sexual. I am more inclined to believe they brag about how they are already pleasing women (whether true or not.)

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Groupthink? I totally agree. Which is why I fail to see why you had such a problem with what I originally added to the group think in post #33. Which is what started this dialogue between you and I. You recall my radical suggestion that Dominant women are not aliens and that we should be treated like women? My contribution to the groupthink

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I know where most porn is directed. That does not change the fact that the OP based his question to us on the images he obtained from femdom art (porn.) Comparing real women to what you saw in porn is usually not going to go over to well around here. And I don't know too many vanilla women who would appreciate it either.

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I have seen that too. Those guys are not usually the ones coming here asking for advice on Dominant women. If you are rude and ungentlemanly and its working for you, then do what works. If you are rude and ungentlemanly and having trouble meeting women, you probably need to rethink your approach. 99.9% of us are not attractive enough to pull off being an asshole. Personally I have never met one person who pulled it off successfully.

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Women who put up with that usually have their own agenda. This is how and why so many men are losing money on this site. Thinking that strange women really do want to see pictures of their dicks and talk about how hot they are for them. The men who play that game are usually the ones who get caught up in the web of those women. They get scammed out of money and catfished.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Well, when I said "abnormal," I didn't mean it in the clinical sense. I don't think there's anything wrong with being "abnormal," so we may have to agree to disagree about this.

I tend to take words literally a lot of times. When you said abnormal I immediately recalled that this lifestyle is listed in the DSM as a mental disorder. That is actually being revised this May.

I've seen similar threads started by others, though. It's not always the same person starting it.

I was not implying that the same person starts all the threads, but rather the same result happens when these "type" of threads are started. The OP's of those particular threads usually ignore the advice given.

as it was just a general question (which no one has even bothered to answer after 5 pages).

His question was answered. The first 6 or 7 people answered his question. He simply did not like the answers he received. That is when the thread took a turn. People respond to questions based on their own experiences and personalities. If one cannot handle those responses, maybe one should rethink asking the question.

Ummm, well, perhaps not at my age. But sure, when guys are in their late teens and twenties, it's not uncommon for them to get together and compare notes.

Teens and twenties? Reference my post about bad advice.

Yeah, and those guys who brag are usually the ones who give out unsolicited advice to their male peers. Some of them even write books on the subject.

Yes…..groundbreaking books telling men that women are from planet Venus


The groupthink I was referring to what I perceived as unproven assumptions about the OP's possible intentions (i.e. "porn contamination," "he's just looking for wank fodder," etc. etc.). I don't think he said anything about dominant women being alien life forms either.

The OP told us his intention was that he wants Kinky sex- no relationship. His words. Nothing wrong with that but don’t expect women around her to be eager and happy to help him find it. He started the wank fodder assumptions by posting links to wank fodder. The words “just porn” are written at the top of the page of his first link. So there should be no surprise what women think or assume.

But taking this from a vanilla context, what does porn actually depict?

Porn depicts unrealistic and over-sexualized objectification of women that causes some men to see us as “fantasy” instead of real women. That is what many of these women perceived from the OP. If that is the impression the majority of his target audience gets from him then he should probably think about that.

I would also note (upon re-reading the OP's question) that he was asking it in the context of an already-committed relationship, so we have to assume that it's already past the courtship, intelligent conversation, and romantic dinner phase and that it's already established as a sexual relationship.

His question was "what do YOU want......" . And that is what the initial posters answered.

No one is required to respond or participate; it's all voluntary.

Yes, not only is no one required to respond or participate but anyone is allowed to respond and participate in the way they choose to. Which is exactly what happened here.

I didn't see it as that big a deal. After all, it's only sex.

Maybe its “only sex” for you and the OP; but I suspect that’s another reason why the women responded the way they did. Because for some of us it is not “only sex.”

So, if a man has trouble meeting women on this site, then the most obvious explanation is simple mathematics.

It may be mathematics. All the more reason to be polite and gentlemanly.

To be honest, I have no sympathy for the guys who get scammed here. There are plenty of warnings about that.

Agreed.

(in reply to Zonie63)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Man: What turns you on?
Woman: If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you.

I hate to phrase it this way, but you lost the battle right here. That's not what transpired on this thread. In five pages worth of responses, overwhelmingly, many have said that the key to this is centered in the woman (not plural, singular) you are dealing with.

quote:

quote:

But reading threads like this, I get the impression that it's the men who need all the advice, while the women seem to know everything already.

Every single female on this thread knew that a female led dynamic wasn't centered on what is seen in porn. Our lives aren't focused on getting submissive males off or cater to their fantasies. I honestly don't think I should have to tell someone old enough to be My father that life doesn't work that way.

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Do you realize how often the forum participants here have to tell men that life isn't like porn? Do you realize how rarely we have to tell women that?

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

In all candor, I don't know of a single man who actually believes that porn is real life. If there are women who believe that there are men who genuinely, sincerely believe that porn and real life are the same thing, I think that’s just another assumption. Did the OP or any of these other men actually say that “porn is real life”? If not, then I don’t see the reason why you would “have to” tell them that it’s not.

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ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

Of course you have never met a single man who believes that. They are too busy approaching us with it. I can recount instance after instance where I get approached by men who are looking for a lifestyle that is exactly like the one the see on porn. Men asking me to walk around in 9 inch heels 24-7. Men who want to completely leave their lives and be kept in a cage as a pet and only let out to give oral service to his "Mistress." Men who want to live in my house and not get a job and work, but only spend his time "at the feet of my owner serving her in whatever way she commands." These are not isolated events. The vast majority of the men that approach me in this lifestyle have cock-eyed, fucked up ideas like this. Usually it is because they saw it in porn. The problem with porn is that there are no bills, kids, families, responsibilities. There is no outside world because it is fake. The reason we say "real life is not porn" around here so much is because there are a hell of lot of men in this lifestyle who DO believe that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

In all candor, I don't know of a single man who actually believes that porn is real life. If there are women who believe that there are men who genuinely, sincerely believe that porn and real life are the same thing, I think that’s just another assumption. Did the OP or any of these other men actually say that “porn is real life”? If not, then I don’t see the reason why you would “have to” tell them that it’s not.

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
(not that there's a provider within a million miles who would let his mouth anywhere near her snatch)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
First off, I didn't really consider this conversation to be a "battle," as I realize this isn't the Politics and Religion section where "battle" seems to be the order of the day. I was just trying to reach a meeting of the minds to clarify a few things.

As far as what's transpired in this thread, I believe that the OP was asking for individual responses from dominant women as to what they personally want. The OP did not say or imply that he was dealing with any specific woman in particular. I took it more as a kind of opinion poll with multiple choice answers, nothing more. What I saw in response dealt more with assumptions about the OP's possible motivations in starting this thread, without any actual answers based on the multiple choices offered in the poll. Not that anyone is required to answer, but still, I believe my analysis of the content of this thread is correct, even if summed up in an oversimplified manner.

As I said, I don't think this is a "battle," but if it was a battle, I would say that the winning side would be more inclined to deal in facts supported by direct evidence, rather than assumptions.

In My defense, I did say that I hated to put it that way.

However, I think we are seeing two different things about this particular thread as well as the poster who created it. I don't think I'm the only female poster seeing this, either.

I used to have a friend who frequented these forums who had a particular saying. "Just because you started a new thread doesn't mean that your posting history starts over each time." This particular OP does have a history of asking dick-centric, sexually objectifying questions of the women here. He's been told on several of his threads that he is perceived this way and not just by Me. He's already got that track record. It didn't start on this thread.

We're also viewing the thread differently because we have two different perspectives. Of course it's a generalization to you. It's not your kink/sex life he's asking about. Whether he asked a specific individual or not, ALL of the women here are specific individuals and yes, that does mean he's asking us about our sex lives. Just because this is a forum, rather than walking up to somebody on a street doesn't make that any less rude. By the way, I do notice that you didn't answer the poll either based on your knowledge of your past or current relationships. Why didn't you want to share anything that was about your personal life?

quote:

I don't think the OP ever said that he believes a female-led dynamic is "centered on" porn. I think that's an unwarranted extrapolation.

He did his "homework" based on the web and femdom "art". It's a heck of a lot closer to porn than it is real life.

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As I was saying to MsMJAY about porn, if we're talking vanilla porn, then we're talking about a graphic depiction of vanilla sex, which people all over the real world do. Most likely, their lives don't "center on" the acts depicted in porn, but that's really beside the point. People still do it. We know this to be true since babies are still being born in this world, and on a very fundamental level, life does work that way.

It's not the acts. It's the story lines that people tend to believe. Yes, people are having sex all over the world. How many guys do you think are delivering pizzas today and really getting a blow job as a tip?

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Obviously, porn is fiction, and fiction is never the same as real life, although I'll admit that there are some who have trouble telling the difference. I knew a woman who thought that Mayberry RFD was real life, even to the point of believing that the characters in the show were real people and that she was even related to them. Kind of a sad case, but it happens.

While not to that extent, I think some folks who land on this forum honestly do get here thinking that the scenarios in porn are exactly how this works. It's not singular cases. It's been a few of them over the years. It's why we end up using terms like re-education because it was the porn that gave them the bad information to start with.

quote:

In all candor, I don't know of a single man who actually believes that porn is real life. If there are women who believe that there are men who genuinely, sincerely believe that porn and real life are the same thing, I think that’s just another assumption. Did the OP or any of these other men actually say that “porn is real life”? If not, then I don’t see the reason why you would “have to” tell them that it’s not.

Why is it then, that so many men end up here with the "kinky women are easy" concept? Why are males surprised that women here aren't throwing kinky sex at every person who comes along and are interested in relationships, instead? Why do we have to tell people that Dominant women are women first and the kink isn't the whole sum of WIITWD? Yes. I have actually met people in real life who thought kink was just like it was in the movies and if they came to a play party, it meant they were getting laid. When they found out it wasn't true, they got up and left.



ETA - I do want to point out that I started this response before the last two above had been typed. Definitely proves that I'm not the only Dominant woman on this board that has the same opinion of the OP.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 1/25/2014 8:28:31 AM >

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Zonie63)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

Of course you have never met a single man who believes that. They are too busy approaching us with it. I can recount instance after instance where I get approached by men who are looking for a lifestyle that is exactly like the one the see on porn. Men asking me to walk around in 9 inch heels 24-7. Men who want to completely leave their lives and be kept in a cage as a pet and only let out to give oral service to his "Mistress." Men who want to live in my house and not get a job and work, but only spend his time "at the feet of my owner serving her in whatever way she commands." These are not isolated events. The vast majority of the men that approach me in this lifestyle have cock-eyed, fucked up ideas like this. Usually it is because they saw it in porn. The problem with porn is that there are no bills, kids, families, responsibilities. There is no outside world because it is fake. The reason we say "real life is not porn" around here so much is because there are a hell of lot of men in this lifestyle who DO believe that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

In all candor, I don't know of a single man who actually believes that porn is real life. If there are women who believe that there are men who genuinely, sincerely believe that porn and real life are the same thing, I think that’s just another assumption. Did the OP or any of these other men actually say that “porn is real life”? If not, then I don’t see the reason why you would “have to” tell them that it’s not.

Not only that, with "vanilla" porn, there are guys who believe they don't have to wear a rubber during a casual hook-up, can withdraw their member and spray semen all over a woman's body. That this is how "normal" intercourse takes place. (That all women want that stuff sticking to their hair, for C's sake!) You can't tell me you haven't run into guys who wrongfully assume any woman who is sexually uninhibited wants to get gang-banged, or that she loves giving blowjobs. You know, the ones they refer to as slut-whore-cunts.

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I don't think you live in an ivory tower, Zonie63, but evidently you must hang out with a higher-class of fellows than your average porn-watching dude.

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ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

(not that there's a provider within a million miles who would let his mouth anywhere near her snatch)

I believe the OP lives in the United States, which is suffering a down economy. One consequence of that is that I could avoid showering or shaving for a week straight, and still find plenty of women who would spank my ass and then facesit me for half an hour for $150, maybe even less.

Here's a link to Backpage Maryland, in case you think I was exaggerating at all in my previous paragraph.

http://maryland.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilyrium

I've been told, recently on CM, that my mind is likely a victim of "porn contamination".

In a way, that must be true, but the femdom art didn't start the process - the brain went out and searched for ideas that reflected upon the feelings. So, the consensus seems to be that I've located all the wrong femdom art, that embodies the feelings. Some even say the right femdom art doesn't even exist.

I would think it must - considering art is merely a visualization of feelings.
But, if there is no accurate femdom art portraying anything remotely realistic (which, I must trust in art that that statement be untrue), then, that's the reason for this wholly non-visual cerebral question in the first place!

Does anyone know of a femdom image that DOES accurately portray the emotions involved in being a Domme with control over a sub?