quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
Joether, do you seriously really need to see what a freshly baked, right out of the oven cherry pie looks, smells and tastes like to realize that a big steaming pile of shit that has an unusual and unsavory odor to it is absolutely not, of the two now clearly available choices....the correct one to stick a fork into and enjoy after a long evening of good steak and wine?

Indeed, having been given only one option (the big steaming pile of shit), do you still need assistance as to what should not be served for desert?

(Man...I thought you were smarter than that).

(You won't be insulted then, if I and others may decline your offer of dinner).

No, seriously, I'm forcing all the conservatives on here to put their money where their mouths are for once. If the ACA is so horrible, then you must have some pretty incredible ideas on how to help make healthcare better for all Americans. I just want it well defined, covering all the bases and points of question.

I'm asking a very serious question, and not one conservative can take on the challenge with the same seriousness. Why should I take you seriously when you cant deliver on your argument of the subject matter in the future? That's all I'm asking. A well defined, well structured law that addresses the problems while giving all Americans (particularly the poorest among us) access to good healthcare at a reasonable cost. All those 'socialistic' countries deliver better healthcare at half the price of the United States. The care I get here in Massachusetts is better than the other 49 states and in competition with those countries.

So stop fucking around, and anty up!

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

It still doesn't change your comment from being ignorant. Not every person who works full time and has a family, hobbies, etc wants to have a garden. Its ignorant to translate the comment, "too much work" to laziness. Other interests more important than having their own garden doesn't mean lazy. They don't see a need to do it when they can get what they want from a farmers market or produce aisle.

Since even my silk plants don't survive, I am not going to put forth the work. If I had the talent to grow vegetables, I would in a heartbeat. Nothing, and I mean nothing beats the tase of garden grown Jersey tomatos. Three plants can provide you with more than you can eat id a season (unless you're like me).

I'm not going to be like some people who claim they never eat junk. I do. Not always, but I eat it. I try to eat a healthy balance of different foods.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
It still doesn't change your comment from being ignorant. Not every person who works full time and has a family, hobbies, etc wants to have a garden. Its ignorant to translate the comment, "too much work" to laziness. Other interests more important than having their own garden doesn't mean lazy. They don't see a need to do it when they can get what they want from a farmers market or produce aisle.
Since even my silk plants don't survive, I am not going to put forth the work. If I had the talent to grow vegetables, I would in a heartbeat. Nothing, and I mean nothing beats the tase of garden grown Jersey tomatos. Three plants can provide you with more than you can eat id a season (unless you're like me).
I'm not going to be like some people who claim they never eat junk. I do. Not always, but I eat it. I try to eat a healthy balance of different foods.

according to the dictionary "too much work" is what one of the definitions of "laziness" is..
too much work to grow your own food leads to its too much work to cook your own food so lets drive thru.. cuz those hobbies are much more important, of course..
la·zy
not liking to work hard or to be active
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lazy
Let me know how outsourcing your food supply to Mexico or other countries that don't have the same sanitary standards & use pesticides banned in the US but used on produce sold back to the US works out for ya.. your farms are CA with the drought are going to be lucky to survive when the irrigation water is shut off & that will only get worse year after year.. then there are the factory farms where when there is a contamination it affects the food shipped to multiple states.. not to mention the whole gmo thing.. and some of those farmers markets buy food from the same sources the big supermarkets do.. even buying some "organic" labeled food has been found to not be organic at all..
When you don't grow your own food you don't know what you are actually buying, how it was actually grown, how long its been on the shelf, etc etc.. Not to mention the cost of that food, when seeds are so much cheaper.. If you have a yard you can garden smart, which is not that hard or that time intensive.. no need to give up hobbies (maybe a little tv time tho).. And in some cities you can rent a garden plot and grow veggies there, or a neighbor who is willing to rent/share part of theirs (preferably a green thumb that can teach your brown thumb to be green).. or start with a few pots/planters.. join a gardening meet-up group.. try hydroponics... try square foot gardening.. Green thumbs kill plants at times too, btw..
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/24/deception-at-the-farmers-market/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
http://gardening.meetup.com/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/fashion/urban-gardening-an-appleseed-with-attitude.html
http://www.ted.com/talks/ron_finley_a_guerilla_gardener_in_south_central_la.html

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Wow. Would you consider an Olympic athlete lazy if he or she didn't grow his/her own food?

Are you lazy if you don't provide everything for yourself, too? I mean, you can learn how to sew (if you don't know how). You can grow cotton, harvest it, create thread, fabric, etc. Or, would that be "too much work?" Are you lazy if you choose not to chop down trees, milled them yourself, created all the nails/screws and build your own house because it's "too much work?"

People are only lazy if it's "too much work," and they continue to gripe about it, have the time to do something about it, have the ability to do something about it, have all the necessary means to do something about it, but still choose to not do something about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

"Not liking to work hard" is not the same as "too much work."

and I'm not worried about California, they are not our biggest farming states. I live in NJ, and it is called the "Garden State For a reason. The whole state doesn't look like newark airport or routes 1 & 9. The county I live in and three surounding/nearby counties are all farmland. Some of my high school class mates we're farm kids. So worry about CA'S drought because of how it will effect my access to fresh fruits and vegetables? Nope.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

It still doesn't change your comment from being ignorant. Not every person who works full time and has a family, hobbies, etc wants to have a garden. Its ignorant to translate the comment, "too much work" to laziness. Other interests more important than having their own garden doesn't mean lazy. They don't see a need to do it when they can get what they want from a farmers market or produce aisle.

Since even my silk plants don't survive, I am not going to put forth the work. If I had the talent to grow vegetables, I would in a heartbeat. Nothing, and I mean nothing beats the tase of garden grown Jersey tomatos. Three plants can provide you with more than you can eat id a season (unless you're like me).

I'm not going to be like some people who claim they never eat junk. I do. Not always, but I eat it. I try to eat a healthy balance of different foods.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Wow. Would you consider an Olympic athlete lazy if he or she didn't grow his/her own food?
Are you lazy if you don't provide everything for yourself, too? I mean, you can learn how to sew (if you don't know how). You can grow cotton, harvest it, create thread, fabric, etc. Or, would that be "too much work?" Are you lazy if you choose not to chop down trees, milled them yourself, created all the nails/screws and build your own house because it's "too much work?"
People are only lazy if it's "too much work," and they continue to gripe about it, have the time to do something about it, have the ability to do something about it, have all the necessary means to do something about it, but still choose to not do something about it.

of course not, if someone is working 80 hours a week then they don't have the time to grow their own food, again I am talking about average people.. Once a garden is set up it doesn't require all that much work and it is a form of exercise but sure if you aren't that particular about what you eat, how it was grown and if the tv beckons you then go for it.. The point was caring about what goes into your body to be healthy & ideally that would include growing your own (as much as you can given your situation).. making nails for your house or clothing wasn't part of that.. totally different topic.. I know how to sew, btw, but I don't do a very good job of it (not to my expectation).. I certainly have tried & I haven't given up (yet).. as far as building your own house, I am all for doing that if someone wants to.. Any house I would build for myself wouldn't be a typical framed house tho.. and yes, I would make as much of it as I reasonably could.. that doesn't mean I would expect anyone else to, that knowledge goes well beyond planting a few seeds and creating a garden (big or small).. You don't really need to know that much to start a small garden.. good soil, water, seeds, sun.. mother nature takes care of most of the rest..

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youinmyharem

I think the biggest problem with health care is simply that there isn't enough emphasis on nutrition, fitness, and healthy habits. As Ben Franklin said, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
When the largest part of the American diet is processed food full of preservatives, GMOs, dyes and other crap, not to mention the enormous amount of generally unhealthy ingredients that actually are food, it isn't rocket science to start figuring out why people aren't well. Add to that work hours that most often exceed 40, a sedentary lifestyle, and well you compound the problem even more.

Certainly there are those who have genetic problems, injuries and other things that simply can't be avoided, but so many of the problems are preventable.

If more attention were applied to just this, the demand for "health care" would drop extremely significantly.

Add to this, easier access to medications that can only be obtained through a Doctor's prescription, much like in Italy, and many office visits could be avoided. You would still have to control pain killers and drugs that are too easy to overdose on or cause interactions with other drugs, but it would reduce the patient load on Doctors quite a lot.

Boosting nutrition could be done with further support for Permacultured landscapes. Particularly in urban areas with economic disadvantages (look at the common diets here, note the extreme percentage of carbs that are often seen because, well, carbs are cheap). I'm no fan of Castro, but he did do something brilliant just after the Soviet Union fell apart. Because Cuba was so reliant on the U.S.S.R. for food imports, people grew malnourished, so he told Cubans to plant vegetables/fruits anywhere there was vacant space, and now they are much healthier than ever before. This also lends itself to a more green/conservationist approach and localization which reduces the transportation implications of imported foods.

By reducing expenses on the front end, then bringing in perhaps a single payer system, I think we could not only outdo ACA, but perhaps pioneer an even greater system than anywhere else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Reasonably could? Are you too lazy to increase your skills so you could build your house? Or, do you just trust the construction companies to provide a quality home at a reasonable price?



Or, are you just too lazy to grow your own meat, too?

I'll be sure to let my neighbor know that she's just too lazy to plant a garden, okay? Never mind that she has severe RA and can barely walk without help. I won't let her off the hook simply because it's "too much work," either.

You might, perhaps, just want to look up division of labor. It might open your eyes a bit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Reasonably could? Are you too lazy to increase your skills so you could build your house? Or, do you just trust the construction companies to provide a quality home at a reasonable price?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Or, are you just too lazy to grow your own meat, too?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Reasonably could? Are you too lazy to increase your skills so you could build your house? Or, do you just trust the construction companies to provide a quality home at a reasonable price?

Or, are you just too lazy to grow your own meat, too?
I'll be sure to let my neighbor know that she's just too lazy to plant a garden, okay? Never mind that she has severe RA and can barely walk without help. I won't let her off the hook simply because it's "too much work," either.
You might, perhaps, just want to look up division of labor. It might open your eyes a bit.

If I was in a place where I could grow my own fish & shrimp, yes I would do that (& I have said that previously too).. I can do without other meat.. I have been vegetarian at times.. again, I am not telling someone that doesn't have the space to have a cow to grow their own meat, even tho you are trying to twist it that way or that someone with RA should be growing a garden if that is beyond their physical ability (again, does every post here now need to come with a list of exceptions?)..
as far as the house goes, depends what the laws are where I would build it, in some areas you are required by law to use certified licensed electricians, hvac, plumbers.. and in some you are required to hire licensed contractors (I am not happy about that!).. in some areas you can do the whole shebang yourself.. and yes, I would do as much as I possibly could.. building the wall & floor panels, doing the electric and plumbing, pouring the concrete, etc.. fyi, I know how to weld metal with the scary fire stick so I can do that too.. but again, doing stuff like that is also a potentially dangerous proposition, and certainly I would not expect anyone to do that nor have I stated that (unlike you), a garden can be as simple as throwing a few seeds on the ground and watering if/when needed..

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Reasonably could? Are you too lazy to increase your skills so you could build your house? Or, do you just trust the construction companies to provide a quality home at a reasonable price?

I am reasonably competent enough to probably build my own home - in the style I would like.
However, by the time I've learned enough to do the job safely, I'd be too old and frail to actually complete the task.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Or, are you just too lazy to grow your own meat, too?

Well... that assumes I'd have enough land, and also enough knowledge of animal husbandry (and butchery), to grow my own meat too. Yeah sure, it'd taste a lot better.
And I'll go to Magic School to learn how to magic up its food.
Maybe I could learn all this while I'm studying all the necessary shit to build my own house.
And while I'm at it, I'll learn how to dig a few hundred feet to have my own well and learn how to purify water - after I've done my water-divining bit to locate it.
Then of course, I'll have to buy some magic beans so I can have some edible food while I wait for my new crops to grow so I can harvest them to eat.
Meanwhile.... I'd starve to death or from exposure from not having any shelter.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

Or, are you just too lazy to grow your own meat, too?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Or, are you just too lazy to grow your own meat, too?

LOL! Don't forget DIY surgery either.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


If the ACA is 'shit' as you state it, then perhaps each of you can supply me with your complete and detailed plan for a better healthcare system in America. When someone tells me that the President's plan sucks, I interpret that they have a much better idea that is well supported with documentation on hand. Only an idiot would attack the ACA and not have a better, well developed and strongly defendable under scrutiny of an idea, right?