Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Slavery and Profit...


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Slavery and Profit... Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 3:33:34 PM   
Nineveh


Posts: 1299
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FinSubCA

I don't view FinDomme as slavery. It's just a kink where she dominates your money.



Fin Dom isn't slavery by itself, but it can certainly be a part of slavery. I think Absolute Overlord's post, while snarky, points out an important point. Why would total submission (which is most people's definition of slavery) exclude labor, of whatever sort the Master demands or requires? Why is that different from sexual service, household service, offering up one's pain or humiliation or whatever else might please one's Dominant?


(in reply to FinSubCA)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 3:56:39 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		Because I can live with a broken heart, but I can't live without a way to put food on the table or a roof over my head. Not to mention, a broken heart will heal in less than 7 years, but a credit report won't. (The credit report will effect your job, home and transportation) And since we're talking about people that don't have a legal relationship, there is no recourse for the submissive if things go wrong.

It's one of those things that require an amazing amount of trust and most of us won't do that without a history proving that you make good decisions.

(Keeping in mind that I'm in a relationship where he controls the finances. It took several years for us to get to that point)



< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 2/13/2014 3:58:53 PM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Nineveh)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 4:36:44 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

I recently read somewhere, basically that it was an intention of the person to find skilled slaves who would amongst other things, be working for him without pay as a part of their slavery.

I have to say... I have moral qualms about that idea.
Now I am not a stuck up person.... And I am definitely not above selfishly using a person.
But the idea of slaves working for the "owner's" profit... Paints the picture of sweatshop labour.

Now this question strikes me as a difficult one to get an answer for...

Meaning no offence to anyone, many of the posters who identify as "slaves" are of the housewife variety... And so working for their SO's profit, does not in my mind pose a comparable moral dilemma.

Where as for the slave who is NOT in a committed legal relationship, this does strike me in some way as inappropriate....
One thing I'm seeing issue with, is the distinction between using a slave to enhance ones life. And some alternate form where the person is used as a resource, with the "owner" getting fat of their slavery... Like some kind of dominant leech.

Anyway I'm not too sure I've actually pinpointed the source of my hesitation toward this idea but I would be interested in others opinion on it.

Even "housewife slaves"!


As long as you don't use them on federally funded projects (it's the damn paperwork)....perfectly acceptable.

(in reply to ARIES83)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 5:35:10 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		I have during my time here seen "slaves" looking to do housework. Apparently that was their kink. *shrug* This certainly doesn't make any less sense to me than findom.

(in reply to ARIES83)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 5:36:56 PM   
Nineveh


Posts: 1299
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Because I can live with a broken heart, but I can't live without a way to put food on the table or a roof over my head. Not to mention, a broken heart will heal in less than 7 years, but a credit report won't. (The credit report will effect your job, home and transportation) And since we're talking about people that don't have a legal relationship, there is no recourse for the submissive if things go wrong.

It's one of those things that require an amazing amount of trust and most of us won't do that without a history proving that you make good decisions.

(Keeping in mind that I'm in a relationship where he controls the finances. It took several years for us to get to that point)




Slavery requires an amazing amount of trust, or at least it should. Putting yourself completely in the hands of someone irresponsible is a bad idea, and that is true as far as not only money goes but also your sexual health, your social sphere, and a lot of other ways.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 5:56:49 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh
Slavery requires an amazing amount of trust, or at least it should. Putting yourself completely in the hands of someone irresponsible is a bad idea, and that is true as far as not only money goes but also your sexual health, your social sphere, and a lot of other ways.

OK, apparently I feel like being a curmudgeon today but I want to notpick this. For Carol and I it's not that big of a leap of faith to do whatever it is that we do. It just sort of fits our natures. What IS a big bit of trust for pretty much anyone is being open and vulnerable to another person. I don't see that as dependent on any particular dynamic.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Nineveh)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 6:35:13 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Perhaps it's just my sense of aesthetics... There is the idea of using someone. But then there is the idea of misusing someone... And I think both those things are very much dependant on ones sense of aesthetics.

The idea of using a slave in that manner seems in bad taste to me. Probably largely because of my personal motivations behind financial matters being brought into M/s,D/s...
Assuming financial control as described by LadyConstantine is not the same as taking someone's money.

I can understand controlling someone's finances, and I can think of a variety of reasons why could would be appropriate. And some of the reasons I would consider appropriate are actually very selfish.

But to take someone's earnings or to make a living off that person and to use that money for one's own purposes... That seems in bad taste to me.

To take control of a persons finances, and to decide what they are allow to do with it... Absolutely! Some people crave to be controlled in that way and for those that would seek to control, that can be a means to that end.

For me, even as a teen, I was loathed to have someone like a girlfriend, who I told what to do, then have to pay for me to get into the movies or the like... That is an emasculating concept for me but more than that, how could I assume to 'be the boss' of someone while not being able to pay my own way??
The idea was impossible for me to swallow, and it ultimately motivated me to get a job and work my ass off!

I am all for healthy financial control and actually advocate it when it conforms to my sense of aesthetics. But the type of financial benefit from slaves that I mentioned in my OP, does not seem healthy and is really very one one sided, to the point I would say it's just exploitation in my eyes.


< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 2/13/2014 6:36:10 PM >

_____________________________

530 DAYS

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 6:42:41 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 2/13/2014 6:43:04 PM >

_____________________________

530 DAYS

(in reply to Nineveh)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 7:08:11 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I don't see the big deal. I mean I'm basically Master's secretary, computer repairman and anything else he needs done. I'm of the opinion that everything that I own is actually his through proxy...why not work also? Therefore, the money I would earn IS his money.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to ARIES83)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 7:54:20 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

Some of this sounds to me like stockholm syndrome, which makes it a mental health issue at that end. The predator has brainwashed the slave into a position of total dependence on him/her. I think alot of us can agree that using a slave for profit is more about human trafficking than a real M/s relationship.

As far as the poster who I believe may have sparked the idea of this post, it's hard to know if he is just being unrealistic or, could he be, a potential predator? Hard to know but since his expectations are high, maybe he will never find what he is looking for and it is a non issue.


Well considering he claims he's been seeking this for over two decades without luck, I don't think we need worry about anyone getting involved with him.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to anniezz338)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 8:43:31 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I don't see the big deal. I mean I'm basically Master's secretary, computer repairman and anything else he needs done. I'm of the opinion that everything that I own is actually his through proxy...why not work also? Therefore, the money I would earn IS his money.

Yeah, but LW, he specifically made mention of how he wasn't referring to those in a committed legal relationship. Obviously the rules of the road become very different once your fates are so entwined. If Carol makes it big as an oil painter I'll be quite content to exploit the free labor of my art slave and nobody would think much of it.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 8:47:50 PM   
Nineveh


Posts: 1299
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I don't see the big deal. I mean I'm basically Master's secretary, computer repairman and anything else he needs done. I'm of the opinion that everything that I own is actually his through proxy...why not work also? Therefore, the money I would earn IS his money.

Yeah, but LW, he specifically made mention of how he wasn't referring to those in a committed legal relationship. Obviously the rules of the road become very different once your fates are so entwined. If Carol makes it big as an oil painter I'll be quite content to exploit the free labor of my art slave and nobody would think much of it.




And how would that be any different if the two of you live together but are unmarried?

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 8:48:32 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
Perhaps it's just my sense of aesthetics... There is the idea of using someone. But then there is the idea of misusing someone... And I think both those things are very much dependant on ones sense of aesthetics.

I agree with this assessment. One of the things I've often felt is that because ALL of this violated every aesthetic sense I ever had, I ended up being more liberal about the whole aesthetic thing. I mean come on! Whips, tarps... blood spatters... sheez you people are freakin nuts (yup, that discussion at the mast meeting scarred me for life LOL).

I don't have much of a sense of what's right or wrong beyond the actual happiness it produces in an actual relationship. I have almost zero opinion about theoretical relationships because in theory everything works. It's only really a question of probability. Granted, for some of the theories i have read I can't help but think of Douglas Adam's infinite improbability drive.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to ARIES83)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 9:17:25 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Perhaps it has been already mentioned so I am just adding my opinion to others... but if the slave is giving his or her service consensually then the rewards are equal... One is giving to fulfill a need and the other is accepting to fill a need. There should then be no moral dilemma.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ARIES83)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 9:37:12 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		This is another OP on the subject of many sub/slaves either having no responsibility with or actually desiring to have nothing to do with...money. I've have, have had and am now considering such female slaves now. It has always been my policy and I tell them up front that while I will not simply going to be their meal ticket but if they want to get over their financial immaturity.. I will teach them by showing them.

It goes like this: they will contribute to the household expenses, (rent/utilities) they will have an allowance any deviance from which will be on a case by case basis like clothes (shoes hey) or say...a car and its expenses.

Otherwise their money is saved and invested and I slowly but surely train them in online trading which for me and them...is online saving. (online trading sites would go broke off those like me)

(banks are the worst place to save and only needed for a checking account which most online traders will provide complete with ATM and CCards) So, I don't use any traditional banks anymore.

Soon they begin to pick up what is not rocket science, the secret being patience and being careful. When done, they are very happy for what I've shown them and what I have done for them. This also goes for anybody in and out of the lifestyle and many friends.

In the end this also allows us (anybody) tremendous financial flexibility.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 9:37:31 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh
And how would that be any different if the two of you live together but are unmarried?

Maybe I'm missing something but my obvious answer to this question is "divorce court".

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Nineveh)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 9:39:12 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh
And how would that be any different if the two of you live together but are unmarried?

Maybe I'm missing something but my obvious answer to this question is "divorce court".

I don't think that applies financially, if unmarried.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 9:45:37 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh
And how would that be any different if the two of you live together but are unmarried?

Maybe I'm missing something but my obvious answer to this question is "divorce court".

I don't think that applies financially, if unmarried.

OK, I admit to being ill today and therefore more than a bit groggy but man, isn't that exactly what I'm trying to say and exactly why Aries excluded "committed legal relationships" from his query? Once you've got a legally binding contract in play which ties the two finances together then things like "who's earning what money" take on a different context.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/13/2014 10:14:57 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh
And how would that be any different if the two of you live together but are unmarried?

Maybe I'm missing something but my obvious answer to this question is "divorce court".

I don't think that applies financially, if unmarried.

OK, I admit to being ill today and therefore more than a bit groggy but man, isn't that exactly what I'm trying to say and exactly why Aries excluded "committed legal relationships" from his query? Once you've got a legally binding contract in play which ties the two finances together then things like "who's earning what money" take on a different context.

Well yes but the only forms of a 'committed legal relationship' is marriage or either full or at least financial power of attorney. Community property apples in the former...no recourse but to rescind POA in the latter and only after the fact. Without that, and in the 'context' as described, the financial submissive is fucked no matter what.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/13/2014 10:17:01 PM >

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Slavery and Profit... - 2/14/2014 1:38:42 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I don't see the big deal. I mean I'm basically Master's secretary, computer repairman and anything else he needs done. I'm of the opinion that everything that I own is actually his through proxy...why not work also? Therefore, the money I would earn IS his money.

Yeah, but LW, he specifically made mention of how he wasn't referring to those in a committed legal relationship. Obviously the rules of the road become very different once your fates are so entwined. If Carol makes it big as an oil painter I'll be quite content to exploit the free labor of my art slave and nobody would think much of it.


Marriage aside for a moment, any committed and intimate, usually exclusive, LTR has a basis in both partners investing in and of themselves. There are many family-run businesses where the owners pay themselves last or have to skip their own paychecks to continue to operate; the unspoken understanding there being that family units are an investment unto themselves, sharing in shouldering burdens and profits together. One can just as easily inherit debts as one can assets.

Back to marriage. Without it, you are SOL if things go south. Not much more palatable when married either, but there is legal recourse. The For Real Master dude who was OP of the thread which inspired this one is shamelessly out to exploit the slaves (whom he views and calls "it") which are the figments of his imagination for free slave labor, not seeking personal partners or compadrés.

FYI JeffBC, your intent came across to this reader, as you clearly think in terms of making lifelong commitments. No ambiguity here.

ETA: If you are pooling your resources like you've described, littlewonder, then what's his is equally as much yours, too (separate deeds & titles excepted, but shared while you're both together).

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 2/14/2014 1:52:25 AM >

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Slavery and Profit... Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125